how is enslave [seize] not considered absolutely broken?

[Imm0rtaleflame]

Sweers siezes 3 body which is low, it's some kind of condition, probably this is why... Ardal requires tactics, what used to demand using Assimilate tactic cards before a lot of new damage tactics came...
Philippa is 21 value for 10provision+9coins (so like 17? provision) and has practically no limit to the amount of sieze...

I really don't like that there are even more than 1 Sieze cards in game. It looks like an attempt to make Sieze an archetype When a player can play 3+ sieze cards... there is no risking in playing for example Ruehin... it's giving up...

/edit: I mean, Vattier for value (2 conditions to even perform), Miruna (deathwich) and old Slave Master for value, were all good Sieze. But Ardal, new Sweers and Philippa are all far superior versions of Muzzle, which was already a bit annoying.

 

[petr_klokan]

But Ardal, new Sweers and Philippa are all far superior versions of Muzzle, which was already a bit annoying.

Exactly, and Muzzle was used in Tier 1 decks in the past. It is a very strong card, no doubt. Now, there is a lot of great 3 str targets and to stick tactics into NG deck is hardly a condition. Especially after nerf to damage, who wouldn’t play assassination, tourney joust (insane card for 4p) and treason. Bribery is RNG but most of the time my opponent produces my top gold 11-13p for 9p plus gets other synergies. The math just doesn’t add up.

 

[Evangium]

Exactly, and Muzzle was used in Tier 1 decks in the past. It is a very strong card, no doubt. Now, there is a lot of great 3 str targets and to stick tactics into NG deck is hardly a condition. Especially after nerf to damage, who wouldn’t play assassination, tourney joust (insane card for 4p) and treason. Bribery is RNG but most of the time my opponent produces my top gold 11-13p for 9p plus gets other synergies. The math just doesn’t add up.

It's really just a reinvention of old NG alchemy, in that there are no bad special cards to add value to the deck. Unlike old NG alchemy though, enslave has synergy with leader ability as well as certain boost/damage engines. It's a poorly concieved mechanic that just having cards with a certain tag increases the ability power and essentially has no effective counterplay. The opponent facing it shouldn't have just mulliganing their most valuable pieces and hoping that their opponent forgets to activate the ability as the correct play. It's right up there with dumb 'play a card' boosting.

 

[Celadyl]

well sweers was buffed in provision last patch where a lot of low provision cards got increased base power, so it kind of made sense since strength 3 became less often. but this patch reintroduced lots of 3 strength units with additional armor, making sweers actually stronger than before imo. redanian archers, dwarf berserkers etc. all can be sweers-ed and make far more than the 6 points from stealing alone.

Bribery is RNG but most of the time my opponent produces my top gold 11-13p for 9p plus gets other synergies. The math just doesn’t add up.

ikr, had a game lately where my opponent played two briberies with stefan and both times got ozzrel who consumed my 13 and 10 point cards in my graveyard while I was saving ozzrel for last play lol. cant count how many times the opponent draw an oak with it too


what's the biggest factor in enslave is the sheer pressure put on the opponent. this leader ability becomes the focus of the entire game. just played monsters against it, I cant play slyzard, I cant play manticore or miruna, because not only can the opponent steal it but actually use it with diplomacy/bribery. you really have to jump through loops and somehow bait leader out of your opponent. sometimes I end up just discarding cards in my hand because I know they would just be 10 points for my opponent and zero for me. it's outright oppressive.
and in ladder at the very least 1 out of 3 games is against enslave in my experience, since dwrves were nerfed.

 

[Guest 4336264]

I've played a few matches and keep encountering the Nilfgaard leader who can steal your card - increased by a certain amount of tactic cards in the opponent's hand. It's bloody ridiculous. On top of the leader stealing your cards, the opponent has other cards that can also pinch your cards. Most cards are quite low rated to begin with - starting around 4. Straight away if you put a card down, it's gone. The next card - get a bit of damage and then lo and behold, play a tactic card and steal that sodding card too - this goes on an on with seemingly no way to prevent it. Honestly, I can't see any point in playing against that particular leader.

You've got Vigo's Muzzle (seize a unit with 5 or less power), Vattier De Rideaux (can seize a locked unit) and Sweers (can seize a unit with 3 or less power) to contend with on top of Ardal aep Dahy. Then you have Damien De La Tour - this git can refresh the leader ability, meaning that old Ardal aep Dahy can nick another bloody card! By the way, I'm playing a Northern Realms deck.

The Nilfgaard faction is the faction with the most cards with the ability to seize locked units, and refresh leader ability - (Besides Vigo's Muzzle which is the only neutral faction card). And I've seen some players somehow reusing these aforementioned gold cards twice in one round - I'm not sure how (either back from the graveyard or using a card that creates a copy or whatever).

Extremely frustrating playing against such a deck. And it's not like a defender can do much against it either.

 

[Matrix30815]

How is that Op for enslave? I thought that enslave couldn't mill the deck.

 

[Austacker]

It's REALLY simple for me.
If I face the NG Enslave rubbish, I forfeit and don't GG.
I really don't care what anyone says, I find it THAT cheap and distasteful to play against, I refuse to participate.

 

[InkognitoXI]

It may sound cheap until you realize Mystic Echo, Pincer Maneuver (and Wild Card) exist.

 

[Pacifixer]

It may sound cheap until you realize Mystic Echo, Pincer Maneuver (and Wild Card) exist.

Exactly! Enslave is annoying and oppresive, but when it comes to broken cards and leaders, it's not even in top 10.