Platform Discussion Thread

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Which API do you think CP 2077 will use?


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it's not a bandwidth advangtage though, is an I/O management advantage. until that comes to PC the PS 5 is just going to be faster at loading games.

I don't see any major I/O advantages there that can't be covered by general improvements in SSDs and PCIe (which is all about I/O and memory transfer).
 
I don't see any major I/O advantages there that can't be covered by general improvements in SSDs and PCIe (which is all about I/O and memory transfer).

you don't see games actually being abole to use the bandwidth an NVME drive provides an advantage, and that on the PC platform no matter how fast a drive is, currently doesn't affect load times in a significant fashion will be something out done by "general" improvements in SSDs and PCIe? even though those general improvements haven't yet dispute massive bandwidth gains and better controllers that extend life of drives...

sure, i'll buy that, yeah totally. sounds so reasonable.
 
you don't see games actually being abole to use the bandwidth an NVME drive provides an advantage, and that on the PC platform no matter how fast a drive is, currently doesn't affect load times in a significant fashion will be something out done by "general" improvements in SSDs and PCIe? even though those general improvements haven't yet dispute massive bandwidth gains and better controllers that extend life of drives...

I mean, current SSDs are already crazy fast. Take something like Samsung 970 Evo+. I bet you won't even notice any difference if it will improve further and provide even faster I/O through better NAND and PCIe5.

But that's besides the point. It will improve in either case, even if noticeable effect will be small. But incumbent consoles won't benefit from those changes, unless their makers will switch to fast hardware iteration approach, which as I said above, I doubt they would.

This whole "load times" effect is highly overrated anyway.
 
I mean, current SSDs are already crazy fast. Take something like Samsung 970 Evo+. I bet you won't even notice any difference if it will improve further and provide even faster I/O through better NAND and PCIe5.

But that's besides the point. It will improve in either case, even if noticeable effect will be small. But incumbent consoles won't benefit from those changes, unless their makers will switch to fast hardware iteration approach, which as I said above, I doubt they would.

This whole "load times" effect is highly overrated anyway.

Absolutely. Especially M.2 drives right now are extraordinarily expensive in certain cases. The technology is awesome, and it's a great benefit for the space it saves in the box and lower voltage...but you won't notice any significant performance gain over most any other SSD.


This whole "load times" effect is highly overrated anyway.

^ Yeah. That's exactly it.

The difference between an HDD and an SSD is huge. If one has not made the jump yet, you will literally watch 2-3 minutes of loading become <10 seconds.

However, the difference between one SSD model and the next is trifling. Even though the speed may be "technically" 200% faster, we're still talking fractions of a second here. In that case, one may wind up "upgrading" from a 500 GB SSD to a 128 GB M.2 SSD. A loss of over half the storage capacity...and your load time for a game goes from 9 seconds to 7 seconds.

(Also, super importantly, SSDs do not increase your framerate. (Not directly.) They only affect things like the time it takes to launch from the Desktop into a game's main menu, the time it takes to reload a saved game, or the time it takes to load into a multiplayer lobby, so that you can click "Ready".)

[EDIT: Not really talking to you, Gil. :p Just discussing in general.]
 
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Yeah, jump from HDD to SSD itself can be way more noticeable, than jump from let's say SATA SSD to NVMe SSD. Though what's noticeable really depends on the amount of I/O. For something like a database where amount of I/O is huge, every increase is noticeable, since it all accumulates. For something like game save load on the other hand, not so much.

Still, no reason not to use NVMe drives today, at least for your main system storage, since prices on them dropped quite a bit already.
 

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This whole "load times" effect is highly overrated anyway.

Across SSD's and NVME drives, sure. HDD vs SSD/NVME I'd dispute it being overrated. It's one of the reasons a bit ago I began migrating away from Xbox. The comparison of load times for the HDD it comes with vs a SSD/NVME are extremely noticable. Fortunately new consoles are finally fixing this shortcoming.

Then you get things like controller support on PC (invested in an elite series 2 myself, worth every penny...), for cases where it's preferable, and exclusives slowly going away and/or not being of any importance (aka, they're undesirable games). Worse and often non-upgradable hardware.... Basically I decided console wasn't worth the investment if one already has a PC. Not unless there is some specific exclusive you want to play.
 
Regardless of the notable (or lacking) impact of NVMe SSD drives on consoles, I can see this benefiting any upcoming PC ports of PS5/XSX games so I’m glad they invested on them.
 
. We know pretty much everything: almost all games from the last 20 years will be backwards compatible (as it is now on One X), they will receive a nice boost in terms of frame rate,
Not true only about 22% of my 360 library will play on my One. Microsoft has a bad habbit of telling people that are half true to just move numbers and going oh they will never notice
 
For readers arriving late, what is the state of vulkan love and *nix support?
(being a legit cyberpunk on windows is corpo-level hard, yet not expecting too much)
 
Then you get things like controller support on PC (invested in an elite series 2 myself, worth every penny...), for cases where it's preferable, and exclusives slowly going away and/or not being of any importance (aka, they're undesirable games). Worse and often non-upgradable hardware.... Basically I decided console wasn't worth the investment if one already has a PC. Not unless there is some specific exclusive you want to play.

I agree with you on deciding that a console investment just isn't worth it. Next gen consoles will actually be comparable to high end gaming rigs this year, but they will stagnant for 8 years while PCs will outstrip them easily within a year or two.

Do you own a regular Xbox controller? I'm wondering if the elite series 2 functionality over the regular Xbox controller justifies the price.
 
For readers arriving late, what is the state of vulkan love and *nix support?
(being a legit cyberpunk on windows is corpo-level hard, yet not expecting too much)

The only related announcement were plans to release CP2077 for Stadia. So we already know they are going to make it work on Linux with Vulkan. But they said nothing about using that to release it for desktop Linux users.
 
The only related announcement were plans to release CP2077 for Stadia. So we already know they are going to make it work on Linux with Vulkan. But they said nothing about using that to release it for desktop Linux users.

Stadia version comes half a year after the initial release. If Stadia dies till then, don't expect the Linux version of CP2077 to appear at all.
 
Stadia version comes half a year after the initial release. If Stadia dies till then, don't expect the Linux version of CP2077 to appear at all.

Highly doubtful Stadia will shut down, given it has a gradual influx of new games so far. Plus, if they are already investing in this work, they can as well use Vulkan even for the Windows version. Half a year or not, as long as they are going to make a proper desktop Linux release, it's good. It's better to play the game when it already gets enough patches and expansions anyway.
 
Highly doubtful Stadia will shut down, given it has a gradual influx of new games so far. Plus, if they are already investing in this work, they can as well use Vulkan even for the Windows version. Half a year or not, as long as they are going to make a proper desktop Linux release, it's good. It's better to play the game when it already gets enough patches and expansions anyway.

I mean it's a google service, it could shut down at any time regardless of the reasons being "good" or the service doing well/poorly. don't hang anything on google keeping something going.
 
I mean it's a google service, it could shut down at any time regardless of the reasons being "good" or the service doing well/poorly. don't hang anything on google keeping something going.

Well, anything can shut down, even CDPR itself. But I don't think it's very likely.

Stadia so far is doing a good job pushing back DirectX lock-in and weakening MS grip on the gaming industry.
 
I agree with you on deciding that a console investment just isn't worth it. Next gen consoles will actually be comparable to high end gaming rigs this year, but they will stagnant for 8 years while PCs will outstrip them easily within a year or two.

I'm not sure next gen consoles will be comparable to high end gaming rigs out right now though. I realize there is a lot of hype for next gen consoles but I don't see it happening. Not given the price gap. I think expecting next gen consoles to be comparable to mid-highish end PC's out right now is more realistic. Of course, it depends how you define mid end and high end.... The way powers that be rate mid range is probably considerably different from how a gamer does, as an example.

But... yeah.... As PC hardware improves it's a good bet those consoles are going to be left behind, so to speak. 8 years for hardware is an eternity.

Do you own a regular Xbox controller? I'm wondering if the elite series 2 functionality over the regular Xbox controller justifies the price.

I've owned a number of them. The main reason I picked up an Elite Series 2 is because I noticed the standard Xbox controller tends to fall apart after ~6 months of usage. The sticks start getting drift, buttons lose a piece here or there (the bumpers specifically are definitely a point of failure), etc. A $180 controller is unquestionably an investment. It's probably more cost effective in the long run if it means you aren't dropping $60 on a new standard controller every 6 months.

My understanding is the biggest issue is the drift related problems. It's certainly been the case for me. I believe it can be traced back to the modules sitting under the sticks. They tend to malfunction in a variety of ways through normal wear and tear. Likely due to cost cutting measures and planned obsolescence (aka, it's built to break so you buy more).

The Elite Series 2, and even the standard Elite, are more robust controllers. Less cheap plastic, more heft and what feels like metal in many places. The enhanced customization from trigger adjustments, removable thumbsticks, paddles, etc. is icing on the cake. It's considerably heavier, no doubt. I'd consider this a good thing though. I've had mine for a bit over a year and it is still working like a champ.

In any case, there are a number of PC titles where I prefer to use a controller. I did a number on my wrists for years due to poor sitting posture and whatnot. For whatever reason console controllers feel a lot more forgiving in this regard. It can make precision in shooters a chore but you learn to rely on strafe keys there (controller 101 in shooters, you use both sticks to aim).

The biggest downside there is some games are a bit iffy for controller support. The Metro series was a great example. Most of those require messing with the anti-deadzone settings on the movement stick. Otherwise it registers movement when the stick isn't being moved after it has been and returned to the default position.
 
I've owned a number of them[...]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have a standard controller. No complaints yet, but I haven't had it long enough to experience the drift issues. The build quality on the elite sounds good, I might consider getting it once my controller starts drifting and if I have cash to burn lol. Hopefully they will lower the price more by then.

I definitely agree with a gamepad being way more comfortable than keyboard + mouse... although I tend to still use keyboard + mouse for multiplayer shooters, because I simply can't compete without it. I'm still trying to decide if I want to use exclusively gamepad for Cyberpunk, or if I should use k+m and switch to gamepad whenever I start driving a vehicle (I can't stand driving a vehicle with k+m, the acceleration being either full throttle or zero is too annoying). My decision will probably come down to how well CDPR implements auto-aim for controllers.
 
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