Cyberpunk 2077's Gameplay?

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Guest 4406876

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Sad shit. If all cars are automatic, then they'd never make those cool animations. So they willfully removed that immersion increasing opportunity. Still they could increase FPP immersion by having some casual animations like eating/drinking or any other casual animation, since the car is automatic anyway. But i dont expect them to implement these, as they didn't even want to make basic gearshift animations, which we all are familiar with.

I can only take this as a developmental excuse to not spend time on those animations. Meaning they chose not to go that extra mile in increasing player immersion. Thus, my concern and disappointment still persists.
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Think you got a bit confused about the thread after seeing the Horizon 4 comment.

Heel Toe is a method used to drift, another method is handbrake method. I not asking for us to have full control over the process, that would just be confusing and extreme hard to perform in mouse/keyboard or controllers. I am obviously talking about pre-recorded/pre-defined animations being there.



Yes, and also gear upshift animation when speeding up, and a gear downshift animation when slowing down. Gear shifting being automatic (as in not a player input), its just a simple animation combined with the respective engine Rev audio queue. That itself increases immersion in FPP.



At a low FOV (field of view setting), you wouldn't even see your character's torso. So there, looking down will make you not see the traffic or road. But at full FOV, you wouldn't be fully looking down and missing the road view completely.

And i'm obviously not going to be looking down the entire time, but when i do, seeing those details there matters. Just the knowledge of those animations being there would immerse me more into the game and its whole FPP aspect. Thats the whole point of immersion anyway, immersion details are almost always the small things.
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The manual shifting you are talking about, is the racing game mechanic of manually shifting gears at certain rev marks to smoothly transition into the next gear without losing speed. That mechanic adds a new skill to master in racing games, because otherwise, player would just be holding the acceleration key all the time and changing directions boringly.

I'm not even asking for that of mechanic (though if cyberpunk does have car races, then that mechanic would be more than welcome. because horse races in witcher 3 was just "holding down W and Shift, and occasionally waiting for the stamina to fill up").

I'm just asking for pre-recorded animations. The game already has the gear changing audio queue, so having a animation attached to that isn't too much to ask.
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Before someone brings up the argument of, "it would be immersion breaking if the vehicle gives a gearshift audio queue without our animation queue, when we are hanging through the window and shooting at chasers". That could easily be solved the vehicle not giving that sound queue when shooting. Which would further increase immersion. Or it could just have a Full Auto Pilot button which we press before hanging out the window. even that would be immersive.

But having those some bugs wouldn't even matter, because having those is better than not having any animation at all.
Sorry to kill it but heel toe isn't for drifting but quite the opposite!. It's a way to shift used ,with non synchronized gearboxes, in the past in order to get the right RPM when downshifting in order to not block the tyres and get the gear in. Most modern cars have an automatic kicker and don't require to blip the throttle while downshifting since many years, it's actually worst if you do that. This depends on the cars. Heel toe is performed Toe on the brakes and heel on the throttle while downshifting and releasing the clutch right after you blip the throttle. On track it's used on some cars configuration to optimize the traction and the engine break on corner entry to keep it as stable as possible (and as fast as possible as entry) and prevent an unbalanced entry (opposite of what's required for drifting). But I've never heard of anyone doing so in cars after the 90s besides on certain racing cars (most are sequential so bye bye heel toe). It's basically needed to keep revs at optimal to prevent unbalancing it on corner entry. Considering that on track a trajectory that is as straight as possible during corners makes for faster laps you get why this is used. Break and downshift late as the corner requires, enter at lightspeed and accellerate as soon as possible on exit and maximize the trajectory for a good exit speed. Heel Toe helps with that.
 
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It's a way to shift used ,with non synchronized gearboxes, in the past in order to get the right RPM when downshifting in order to not block the tyres and get the gear in. Most modern cars have an automatic kicker and don't require to blip the throttle while downshifting since many years, it's actually worst if you do that. This depends on the cars. Heel toe is performed Toe on the brakes and heel on the throttle while downshifting and releasing the clutch right after you blip the throttle. On track it's used on some cars configuration to optimize the traction and the engine break on corner entry to keep it as stable as possible (and as fast as possible as entry) and prevent an unbalanced entry (opposite of what's required for drifting). But I've never heard of anyone doing so in cars after the 90s besides on certain racing cars (most are sequential so bye bye heel toe). It's basically needed to keep revs at optimal to prevent unbalancing it on corner entry. Considering that on track a trajectory that is as straight as possible during corners makes for faster laps you get why this is used. Break and downshift late as the corner requires, enter at lightspeed and accellerate as soon as possible on exit and maximize the trajectory for a good exit speed. Heel Toe helps with that.

I see, thanks for the clarification !

(I did suspect it to be something similar to rev matching and engine braking on motorcycles.)
 
Did the gameplay standout in any other Witcher game? It's always solid I would say but nothing groundbreaking.

"CDPR even clearly said underground "martial arts" tournaments. "

Did they really talked about martial arts? I always heard only about boxing.

Best drift mechanic in Saints Row The Third? Really? I would say they are probably the worst.

I would say headshots will matter later in the game when you have perks, attributes, stats for it. It's an RPG, if you won't go for stats that will make hitting head worth it, it won't be worth it.

Trains, the heel toe downshift these things are very unnecessary. You will look, try it first few times but after that you will forget about it, you won't be needing it.
The heel toe downshift you'll say "oh cool, this looks cool." And after that you look down once or twice and won't care about it. It's cool detail, but I guess there are better things to work at.
I played Star Citizen, Watch_Dogs and first Mafia and I used trains (like sitting in it, looking around) so many times I could count it on one hand. It's another of those features you use once or twice, say cool, and then you've seen everything, nothing new expects you there so you just skip it.

Think we've seen only one boss fight, especially from two years old footage. I think it's too soon to talk about that.

And afaik they said wall-running has been removed. Not wall-climbing.
 
CDPR focus on story seemingly.
Different studios, different engine, different work expérience and employees...

Maybe what we're asking for just can't be made.

Also, we just had a few shots from combats, probably with crappy low skills...
Maybe at high skills we'll be able to Jackie Chan our way through Night City.

Lots of maybe.
 
Trains, the heel toe downshift these things are very unnecessary. You will look, try it first few times but after that you will forget about it, you won't be needing it.
The heel toe downshift you'll say "oh cool, this looks cool." And after that you look down once or twice and won't care about it. It's cool detail, but I guess there are better things to work at.
I played Star Citizen, Watch_Dogs and first Mafia and I used trains (like sitting in it, looking around) so many times I could count it on one hand. It's another of those features you use once or twice, say cool, and then you've seen everything, nothing new expects you there so you just skip it.

That's the point of most immersion and fun aspects anyway, to give some examples -

- The anytime meat-roasting/cooking mechanic in MHW, i haven't used that feature in 400 hours.
- Taunting feature in Saints Row and Conan Exiles.
- Showing middle finger when driving in GTA V.
- Vehicle surfing in SR3.
- Robbing storekeepers.
- Real time dynamic beard growth in witcher 3, GTA5 and RDR2.
- The option to On and Off torches and candles in Witcher 3 with igni
- Using Axii on stray cats and dogs to make them not run away from the witcher in TW3.

These are not even 1% of the small things, those and many other games have, which players interact really little with (well some players interact with those a lot). These might be the different footstep sounds we hear when walking on different surfaces. These are little features that wouldn't be noticed by the player after a point of time, but they will always be noticed by our minds (unconsciously), which in-return would make us believe the world seems more immersive, interactive and lived in.

Considering the reason of "i wouldn't look at it or use it more than a few times, so why should they have it". Would even contradict with adding high detail textures, like all magazines are readable in CP77 and every street is fully detailed (not a lot of people are going to read every magazine and see every corner of every street), and adding millions of animations and dialogs to NPCs ( 99% players wouldn't see every animation and and listen to every dialog), but these are the things that make the world feel lived in. And player character immersion is greater than world immersion.
 
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For me, immersion comes from interactivity and how believable a world is. It's a matter of how often the game reminds me it's a game. Suspension of disbelief is the opposite of what I need to feel immersed. I'm not affected by perspective, at all, probably the game I was more immersed in is RDR2 and it's TPP.
For me it's not even all about "immersion" (not a huge fan of the term), but rather how engrossed I can become in the game. Even when a game is "gamey" or breaks the fourth wall, I've found that I can become engrossed enough to be a part of that world. I've had this experience with top-downs, with real-time and with turn-based, FPP and TPP.

Certain perspectives are just better to tell the story from for certain worlds and narratives. From what I've seen the world that CDPR created wouldn't have been faithfully served in anything but FPP. But that's a whole different argument from gameplay.

I'm happy with almost everything I've seen. My only concern is the skills that I've heard about thus far. They seem to mostly be xx% damage or accuracy or crits or hacking time which I'm not too huge of a fan of. I think they're necessary to combat and level progression, but I think that skills or milestones from those skills should influence how the character interacts with the world, what they perceive in it, etc.

Edit: Was reading the censorship points of the OP. I certainly hope it's not a commonality throughout the game, especially considering how they've been touting the adult themes of this game. I absolutely loathe censorship and it's probably one of my large pet peeves. I understand it from a business perspective, but I hate it as a consumer (and for the art itself).
 
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I would like the combat to have more details
wounds, blood, marks
Like RDR2
RDR2 had more than that. It has actual ragdolls, physics and precise collision which gives your punches an actual weight. And bigger moveset.
FFS, Bullet Physics Library is FREE.

Until CDPR do something with their collisions, nothing will improve visually even with new extended moves list. Until CDPR do something with their ragdolls, no Rockstar level will be achieved.
 
Sad shit. If all cars are automatic, then they'd never make those cool animations. So they willfully removed that immersion increasing opportunity. Still they could increase FPP immersion by having some casual animations like eating/drinking or any other casual animation, since the car is automatic anyway. But i dont expect them to implement these, as they didn't even want to make basic gearshift animations, which we all are familiar with.

Seems like CDPR is (rightly) taking notes from GTA games when it comes to cars. GTA also has automatic transmissions everywhere. You can drift fine with it. Its pretty much the only car game I play these days so I am pretty happy by this.
 
I would like the combat to have more details
wounds, blood, marks
Like RDR2 :(

RDR2 had more than that. It has actual ragdolls, physics and precise collision which gives your punches an actual weight. And bigger moveset.
FFS, Bullet Physics Library is FREE.

Until CDPR do something with their collisions, nothing will improve visually even with new extended moves list. Until CDPR do something with their ragdolls, no Rockstar level will be achieved.
The Euphoria Engine is the best engine I've ever seen in videogames in terms of physics. It was revolutionary back in 2007 with GTA 4 and still above everybody else to date. Rockstar were very smart when they decided to buy it.

What I saw in TLOU2 is very close though, but vehicles and horses in RDR2 and GTA are something else. Also, open-world games. Even more impressive.
 

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Seems like CDPR is (rightly) taking notes from GTA games when it comes to cars. GTA also has automatic transmissions everywhere. You can drift fine with it. Its pretty much the only car game I play these days so I am pretty happy by this.
Also because in the US the majority of cars have automatic transmission. Saved for few cars V8 afecionados that actually know how to drive. In LA when it rains there's so many cars accidents you don't see in any part of the world at the same rate in a single day.
 
Possible improvements to Briandance

Before I get to possible solutions I want to sate the following.

It's difficult to really gauge what needs improvements by a 5 minute video or current feedback from a group of few individual who got to play the game.

Main reason for Difficulty in assessing Braindance mechanics.

1: “Judging a tutorial as final experience.”
Am making the assumption that gameplay showed in the 6 minute video is essentially the tutorial for Braindance for this reason I believe it would be unwise to judge the entire gameplay within Braindance until more information is release.

2: “Difficulty assessing concerns.”
Individuals who had the chance to play the game and viewers of the 6 minute video giving very simple feedback "example: I don’t like Braindance or I do like Braindance" without going into detail as to why something worked or something didn't, in addition not providing possible solutions for enhancing their experience.

As far as I understand nobody had a problem with the concept of Braindance to further develop nigh city and its inhabitants.

Possible improvements
Given this is an RPG, progression within Braindance would be an interesting addition.

For example the design of editing mode is meant to be cyberspace looking with distortions and pixilation to give the player the distinction between editing mode and viewer mode. Possible hardware can be added to V to reduce some of the pixilation/distortion later in the game.

Another addition can be noise base localization and automations of objective for example if you walk into a scene where a camera needs to be analyzed the player would only hear a specific type of sound.

Am being very general with the word 'sound" this can range from a beep to V commentating something to let the player know of the camera. After the "sound" has passed a small option would appear on the right side of the screen, example: "accesses feed" by pressing R1.

If R1 is pressed the feed to the camera would pop up without the player having to be anywhere close to the camera or having to analyze it. Again automation of objective would be achievable with an upgrade to V's hardware. Side note: only one thing can be automated within Braindance.

Possible UI refinement with in Braindance.

1: Making the large green interface for letting the player know there was someone talking smaller.

2: Possibly changing the green in Braindance to another color (Not too sure about this one)

3: The circle in the middle that expands and contract, possibly leaving the circle in its contracted state and changing its opacity to a higher number when analyzing an object.
 
What I saw in TLOU2 is very close though, but vehicles and horses in RDR2 and GTA are something else. Also, open-world games. Even more impressive.
TLoU 2 was an excercise in grinding the cobblestone into rennesaince era statue, everything is an animation done by hand. And human hands are not perfect and precise enough to compete with Euphoria, not in crunch mode. Euphoria in this regard is much better because it automates some of the animation routine with advance ragdoll simulation. So, two different leauges.
 
TLoU 2 was an excercise in grinding the cobblestone into rennesaince era statue, everything is an animation done by hand. And human hands are not perfect and precise enough to compete with Euphoria, not in crunch mode. Euphoria in this regard is much better because it automates some of the animation routine with advance ragdoll simulation. So, two different leauges.
They're not all hand-made, their engine deconstructs animations it has in a database and makes the required animation automatically on the fly. But yes, I agree the Euphoria is better, at least because it works on vehicles as well.
 
I would like the combat to have more details
wounds, blood, marks
Like RDR2

RDR2 is easily the most immersive game, i dont think any game in the next 10 years would be capable of beating it.
(i wanted CDPR to beat it, but things dont seem that way)

Seems like CDPR is (rightly) taking notes from GTA games when it comes to cars. GTA also has automatic transmissions everywhere. You can drift fine with it. Its pretty much the only car game I play these days so I am pretty happy by this.

Hey, i'm only talking about manual shifting from a aesthetic point, just the animations.

Anyway, i saw the prologue gameplay video (didnt have much spoilers anyway), seems CP77 already has the brake/accelerate pedal animations and proper ignition animation. Though i don't know if it was just a scripted sequence.

Also because in the US the majority of cars have automatic transmission. Saved for few cars V8 afecionados that actually know how to drive. In LA when it rains there's so many cars accidents you don't see in any part of the world at the same rate in a single day.

Interesting

Possible improvements to Briandance

Braindance seemed similar to the investigation feature in Batman Arkham series

That tutorial sequence does need some improvement, what i felt the first time i saw that was
(i'm talking about the tutorial and not the events within the specific braindance)

- The tutorial felt long
- Couldn't grasp the controls easily
- The sequence of explaining may be weird

Still not sure if its bad or good, the whole braindance reveal seemed "meh", like it wasn't something mindblowing or impressive. As investigating something by forwarding and reversing events, was already a big part of the batman games. Guess ill have to watch that braindance sequence a couple times more.

Also it felt weird that V was treated like someone who has no idea of braindance or something, im pretty sure V would have tried braindance before, as he/she is part of the same world.

The concept of having braindance as a way of witnessing the back-stories of world characters is cool though. In other games we would imagine these by ourselves in our minds with the clues given to us (like imagining the history of a dark souls world, visualizing the past of Geralt and others), but guess in CP77 we have visual footage of those. Curious about the quantity of braindances in CP77.

What do you guys think about Brain Dance ?
 
RDR2 is easily the most immersive game, i dont think any game in the next 10 years would be capable of beating it.
(i wanted CDPR to beat it, but things dont seem that way)
300% agree.
What do you guys think about Brain Dance ?
I would've preferred to have it as an excuse to have unexpected situations in-game, like going in space, fighting some monster, playing some fun minigame or taking drugs (think watch dogs)... But if it's gotta be batman investigation, so be it... A wasted occasion to do something fresh, but hey, it is what it is... :shrug:
 
I definitely think we needed to see some sort of game play consider the recent delay. However, I highly doubt CDPR would show us their recent build, or even let the play testers play their most recent build of the game. Not only do they need to develop a game that meets our expectations, but they also have to manage said expectations for us, even if it means they have to sift through the community feedback positive or negative. I agree with a number of points OP made, but I'll wait for the game to drop before I begin doubting CDPR.
 
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