The problem with Skellige

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Taking a deeper look into the other new bronzes:
- Tuirsearch attacker: Can have a max value of 7 in round 3. Does not appear to be OP for me, as all fractions including NG´s angry mob got a 4 provisions conditional 7 value card
- An Craite Raider: Has due to his Veteran Feature a maximum base value of 6 in round 3 and can damage 2 if not stopped. So his maximum value is 8, which sounds reasonable for a 5 p. To my mind the other fractions got comparable cards (NG new aristocrat with much higher value potential, NR Kerack City Guard with much higher value potential, ST Hamadryade with much higher value potential). Only MO and SY didn´t get comparable or better 5 p units. I did not even include An Craite Raider into my deck, because I prefer An-Craite Caller as my only 5 p card)
Putting aside that the other factions also received badly conceived OP cards. One of the issues is that these cards gain value whilst in the graveyard. Which leads to yet more OP interactions with Harald and War of Clans.

- Drummond Berserker: Decent card creating a value of 9 (1 dmg for 3 turns then base strength of 6) if not stopped. Nevertheless it´s value potential is decreased significantly if stopped (facing armour, destroyed earlier). I think his value is fair and the card is comparable to Alba Pikeman (less value potential but more flexible as not limited to Melee).
One of the issues here is how many cards can deal the required points of damage to remove it?
So your 5p Drummond berserker still trades favourably. 4 points of removal will cost a 4provision card. So you are getting an expected range of 6-9 for 5p (+bait)

Seems overpowered to me, considering what was previously the best bronze in the game can now be one shotted by 4p NG Mage Infiltrator.

But I agree your value potential drops against armour.



Generally, I think designing OP cards takes far less thought than adding balanced ones. But, it is far more profitable...
(in the short term anyway)
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
SK is actually great design wise.

This. It's the other factions that suck. SK's balance between the value of the cards from different provision ranges is great. The only reason SK is so op is that it's a notch better in every category than all other factions, and then it's flexible af = has no real weaknesses.

HINT: most of you don't even know about this card, and nobody uses it. I wonder why. (the Axeman)

Because it's too conditional. It's not the ceiling that matters. It's the value you can consistently get. If the ceiling mattered most, then old Greatswords - 2xGs, Dagur, Wild Boar, ships - would be much better than the current midrange SK.

So Villager is "just" 8 for 4 but it's almost always 8 for 4. Scytheman can be 20 for 4 but that only happens in your dreams. Same as other seemingly better value bronzes. SK got best bronzes currently which is ridiculous with the native mechanics of the faction.
 
And villager can also be stronger than 8 for 4 if it activates a beserker-engine. My favorite is villager on blue-boy Lugos.
 
This. It's the other factions that suck. SK's balance between the value of the cards from different provision ranges is great. The only reason SK is so op is that it's a notch better in every category than all other factions, and then it's flexible af = has no real weaknesses.



Because it's too conditional. It's not the ceiling that matters. It's the value you can consistently get. If the ceiling mattered most, then old Greatswords - 2xGs, Dagur, Wild Boar, ships - would be much better than the current midrange SK.

So Villager is "just" 8 for 4 but it's almost always 8 for 4. Scytheman can be 20 for 4 but that only happens in your dreams. Same as other seemingly better value bronzes. SK got best bronzes currently which is ridiculous with the native mechanics of the faction.


I was being sarcastic :giveup:
 
With everyone complaining (justifiably) about SK second wind decks I kind of want to stop using mine.

I thought about doing that as well. I decided not to since it seems like every other game I play is against a lockdown NG deck which essentially kills Second Wind anyway. lol

I just like seeing SK doing well for a change. Now if I could only get a draw where my best cards are all playable in a match I would be happy. 6 games in a row now where I have only been able to draw more than 1 of my top 6 cards...
 
Yeah I'm surprised no whines about NG lock decks cause those are no fun to play against, and quite frankly I don't like playing with that deck either...

ARIS, I also noticed that the first round I get like 3 or 4 of my best cards a lot of the time, and then I'll Mulligan some of them, then the rest of the game it's all bronze..
 
Now if I could only get a draw where my best cards are all playable in a match I would be happy. 6 games in a row now where I have only been able to draw more than 1 of my top 6 cards...

I dream of a deck where all of my cards are “best cards”!

Actually I do have a couple of those — they’re just 40 provisions short of the cap.
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
I just like seeing SK doing well for a change.

Last patch SK was doing great already.

Now if I could only get a draw where my best cards are all playable in a match I would be happy.

And that's good. Happiness is good. Except that the other factions got no shot at that happiness. NR maybe, with Amphibious and Oneiro, rarely draw bad. But the power gap is just ridiculous.

Yeah I'm surprised no whines about NG lock decks cause those are no fun to play against

NG whines are good and alive. Just look around. The latest Vincent thread got like a 100 posts already. Yenvo thread is still alive. Bribery rants pop up here and there. And all that despite the fact that NG got the second lowest winrates according to Team Elder Blood top pro player profile survey.
 
You can keep up this thread, the nerfs ain't coming till next month.

Sk is good as it is, now to fix the other factions so people can play instead of being on the forum "whinning" as said above me.
 
Well my own feeling when playing SK (Harald´s warrior against other fractions) and playing other fractions against SK (Harald´s warrior)

- Highest probability of win against SK with NG . Reasons:
  1. High removal potential if Vincent, Yenno Ivo, Vilgo, Masquerade Ball (Poison) based strategy
  2. If you have an hybrid spy-assimiliate strategy you can benefit from SK´s strong cards, steal them from their deck and maybe even target their GS or Dagur with your stolen Morkvarg
- Second highest win probability with NR. Reason:
  1. Also probable high removal potential with those duel cards based on Viraxas
  2. An uprising deck combined with Voymir/Kaedwen dead soldier swarm has then many armoured unit reducing SK damage potential
For other fractions (SY, Scoiatel, MO) there is a high probability of loose. If you face a swarm deck there is good food for Wild Boar of the Sea and/or Hemdall. If you face a deck based on boosted units (SY Passiflora, Scoiatel Hamadryade, MO deathwish/dominance) there is good food for Morkvarg.
 
I refused to play ranked under these conditions, with SK being so overpowered. Tried it a few times, got my ass kicked all the time, so I let it rest. Instead I am enjoying Power Shift with a custom made NG deck that focuses on locking units and control. Quite fun to play.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
I think the following months of Gwent will be a nightmare, similar to the ones earlier this year - players demanding balance changes (in this case, for SK), which will take too long to come and wont be enough.

Personally, im gonna stay away from the game and wait for August's seasonal mode, which if unchanged, its my favourite of them all and will only play that during that time, and hopefully this year the suggestions to make it a permanent mode will be loud enough so the devs do just that.
 

Guest 4404014

Guest
I think the following months of Gwent will be a nightmare, similar to the ones earlier this year - players demanding balance changes (in this case, for SK), which will take too long to come and wont be enough.

They should really launch a second hotfix, though. Harmony was nothing like SKomegaLUL.

And I don't think devs will seriously consider buffing everything else instead. So SK needs to be nerfed. And it's not even that hard. Just take away 1 power from all its bronzes. It could happen tomorrow, not need to delay that.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
Couple of hours back I saw Radreme's stream in which he played ST and faced SK-SW. The opponent kept misplaying and went two cards down unnecessarily and won R1. With 2 cards down, he pushed R2 and managed to lose that round on even - committing his leader, and in R3, he won comfortably! Immediately Radreme ended his stream. SK is that disgusting. Any bloody noob can simply throw of any cards they wish and still win. But as @DRK3 mentioned, we can't expect a proper balance for months to come. We may get small minor tweaks and the trend will continue for months together. We can only hope that while SK is getting nerfed, other factions like ST and SY gets a little buffed, otherwise, NR will be the new SK.
 
They make this 'mistake' over and over again. Though since it's another broken post-expansion list you could argue it's deliberate. It's unacceptable either way.
So what do people think? This frustrating cycle has been going on for years now and actually feels to be getting worse. Is it deliberate, to encourage purchases for the new OP stuff, or are they just incompetent when it comes to balancing the game, never learning from their mistakes?

I'm not sure myself, but I do recall Jason saying in an old stream that he really liked the big splashy, swingy type of gameplay. So maybe that has some influence on design direction and balance philosophy?

Also, what is the real reason for holding off balancing things for longer than seems wise? Is it just due to the pro rank competitions? Is it due to shortcomings of the game code and/or patch release mechanism? (Or are they just waiting until they've made enough sales of the new expansion stuff?)

And why do they often seem to miss the mark when they nerf things, regularly choosing inappropriate solutions, when more appropriate ones were open to them?

Whatever the reason, for me, it definitely has the effect of making the game less appealing to play after going through this farce yet again.
 
I think SK's issues right now are.

1) Their veil/veteran unit is overtuned. Needs a flat provision increase.
2) Gremist is overpowered, it negates pretty much all of the counters to SK with no real deck dedication needed. He's literally auto include at this point.
3) Missile is now too good for the provision cost
4) Blacksmith is too much of a wombo combo card now

Fix those problems and SK will still be strong, just not eye rolling imbalanced.
 
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