Ultimate kegs replacing base kegs

[wonderboy870]

I have read the arguments, but disagree. It is time to upgrade the base set keg. This keg has been around for 3 years, most of the cards in it have been power crept out of the meta, and most of the existing player base has a full playable set of base cards.

I have the full set of all cards now, and you have to craft and transmute quite a number of base set cards to do so. I had 53 legendaries to craft, 37 from the base set when i finally broke down and gave up trying to pull them from packs.

I love pulling cards from packs, it was my first job in the 80s when i worked in a card and comic shop. I learned then that every chase card was not shipped to every region of the country, to promote collectiblity. The passage of time has only enforced that basic tenet. most games, Gwent included, have algorithms that will not let you pull every card just from packs (or whatever other randomizer they use.)

So if having a keg dedicated to the base set does not help you pull the last remaining cards from the base set, might as well open it to all sets. At least that way, some cards from future sets are guaranteed.

Take a random numbers generator and program it between 1 and 200 (not actual numbers just using basic numbers to illustrate my point.) Add 200 more so now it goes between 1-400. Now aim for the numbers between 50-60. You tell me, where you better off before or after you added 201-400?

 

[croloris]

Take a random numbers generator and program it between 1 and 200 (not actual numbers just using basic numbers to illustrate my point.) Add 200 more so now it goes between 1-400. Now aim for the numbers between 50-60. You tell me, where you better off before or after you added 201-400?

My point is more regional. Similar to pokemon go. If i live in America, and Pokemon 50-60 are only available in Japan, my chances of pulling them in America are 0%.

It doesn't matter if there are 151 or 807.

 

[Qzman]

No this move will be a big nerf for new players as well.
I agree that new players need "other kegs", but they also should have direct option to get cards from ONLY base set.

Base set has the most cards, so it already was difficult to hunt for specific card from the base set.

And that's the reason for all this "negativity" you can see. In theory such keg replacement looks good but in details is not as it introduces a lot of RNG for the players who would like to complete their base set by buying kegs.

If you're a new player you immediately start buying ultimate kegs, problem solved.

As for finishing base collection by buying kegs, that's an impossible mission. I've bought many hundreds of base kegs and still had to craft so many cards, with many more left uncrafted.

I would have preferred to keep both kegs in the shop but devs have their reasons. You can't tailor a game for literally everyone's needs [...].

 

[Lexor]

If you're a new player you immediately start buying ultimate kegs, problem solved.

No, when you are a new player you select a faction starter deck, buy SOME kegs from this faction to improve the deck to be "more playable" and then you should buy expansion kegs to build up your whole collection of cards and avoiding duplicate cards as much as possible at the same time.

As for finishing base collection by buying kegs, that's an impossible mission. I've bought many hundreds of base kegs and still had to craft so many cards, with many more left uncrafted.

Yes, after nearly two years of playing I'm still missing some premium base set cards, but I have all I need from other sets.
The base set is the biggest one and changing base set keg to ultimate one will only worse the whole situation.

I would have preferred to keep both kegs in the shop but devs have their reasons.

CDPR said that "there are too many kegs in a shop".
If that's their reason then they should keep base set kegs in shop and swap base set kegs ONLY in trees / dailies.

 

[Lexor]

For example after a game year or two(year of the boar), release year of the boar kegs, removing specific expansion kegs..

That would be another nerf to what players need.
If CDPR "needs space" then they should remove faction kegs first as they are the most RNG ones of all to get not duplicated cards.
Faction kegs are also pointless to have when we can not buy kegs with neutral cards.

 

[wonderboy870]

My point is more regional. Similar to pokemon go. If i live in America, and Pokemon 50-60 are only available in Japan, my chances of pulling them in America are 0%.

It doesn't matter if there are 151 or 807.

I am sorry I don’t follow. How do you get to 10 cards not available? There are faction kegs, expansion kegs, and currently a base keg. The more possibilities the less chance for getting your target. Please feel free to add more details to your position to clarify.

 

[judgecsk]

I have read the arguments, but disagree. It is time to upgrade the base set keg. This keg has been around for 3 years, most of the cards in it have been power crept out of the meta, and most of the existing player base has a full playable set of base cards.

I have the full set of all cards now, and you have to craft and transmute quite a number of base set cards to do so. I had 53 legendaries to craft, 37 from the base set when i finally broke down and gave up trying to pull them from packs.

I love pulling cards from packs, it was my first job in the 80s when i worked in a card and comic shop. I learned then that every chase card was not shipped to every region of the country, to promote collectiblity. The passage of time has only enforced that basic tenet. most games, Gwent included, have algorithms that will not let you pull every card just from packs (or whatever other randomizer they use.)

So if having a keg dedicated to the base set does not help you pull the last remaining cards from the base set, might as well open it to all sets. At least that way, some cards from future sets are guaranteed.

- So basically to sum it up you're saying that you're more than okay with this change and ofc you'd be okay, you're done collecting the base ones so...yeah, sorry but your opinion doesn't count as you are not affected negatively by this.
There are new players to this game that will go through hell to complete the base set with this change.
You say that there might be something in the algorithm that won't let ya get certain cards through packs..? If that's a real thing going on then there's a false advertising issue in this game and no you don't get to compare it with real world tcgies as Gwent cards CANNOT be traded. False Equivalency.

As someone who owns the whole base set I completely understand how this is bad for new players. I do however understand the need to reduce the number of kegs on sale. Especially once a few more kegs are released.

What about rotating kegs out? For example after a game year or two(year of the boar), release year of the boar kegs, removing specific expansion kegs.. That gives any new players the opportunity to gain kegs across the year and able to collect neutral base set kegs. This way could lead to both ultimate and base set kegs into shop without filling it with more.

- I find your stance respectful to the new players so I won't roast ya "per say".

Do you see a lot of people complaining about how confusing is to find what you want in the shop with all them different kegs...?
I bet you won't find a single one, the kegs are categorized and labeled properly and give everyone a chance at getting what they want from each faction/expansion... the "solution" to the "problem" that they are offering is manufactured... not needed, we ask for neutral kegs and they come back to us with this..?
Nah man...nah...sorry but this is nothing more than an epic pro MLG trolling and they paint it as a "positive" thing.

 

[Draconifors]

sorry but your opinion doesn't count

Wrong. Everyone's opinion counts, and you'd be wise to accept that at least on the surface.

 

[croloris]

I am sorry I don’t follow. How do you get to 10 cards not available? There are faction kegs, expansion kegs, and currently a base keg. The more possibilities the less chance for getting your target. Please feel free to add more details to your position to clarify.

You are making the assumption the algorithm for obtaining cards is fair. I am assuming it is an algorithm mimicking the distribution methods of the physical collectible industry, which is blatantly unfair.

That industry has usually relied on restricting certain items to certain areas. For instance in McDonalds Monopoly game, you ship the cups with Boardwalk everywhere but Park Place is only in a few cases in remote areas. That way, by the time a Park Place is found, the game is over and prizes no longer valid.

In video games, it's even easier. You program a set number of cards to not show up in the card pool based on either region or general numbers. Gwent has accidentally done the latter numerous times already. Usually it takes a week or two of complaints before the the latest expansions' cards appear in the faction kegs.

 

[wonderboy870]

You are making the assumption the algorithm for obtaining cards is fair. I am assuming it is an algorithm mimicking the distribution methods of the physical collectible industry, which is blatantly unfair.

That industry has usually relied on restricting certain items to certain areas. For instance in McDonalds Monopoly game, you ship the cups with Boardwalk everywhere but Park Place is only in a few cases in remote areas. That way, by the time a Park Place is found, the game is over and prizes no longer valid.

In video games, it's even easier. You program a set number of cards to not show up in the card pool based on either region or general numbers. Gwent has accidentally done the latter numerous times already. Usually it takes a week or two of complaints before the the latest expansions' cards appear in the faction kegs.

The mcdonald’s analogy is where you lose me. Gwent limits quality not quantity. Mcdonald’s monopoly restricts quantity not quality. In other words the supply is not the issue in Gwent. For an easy example buy 75 MM kegs and see how many specific common or rare cards are missing. The issue of how often you hit the epics or legendaries. Even then, you can always fill them in with scraps. Scraps you get from the extras from kegs.

But for the sake of argument let’s concede your point. Your odds are very low on card X. Now you increase the card pool X is in from 200 to 400. Now the very rare X is even more rare. So how does expanding the card pool improve the situation?

 

[judgecsk]

Wrong. Everyone's opinion counts, and you'd be wise to accept that at least on the surface.

Aha...okay, I expected someone coming back to me with such a claim, so yeh... while I respect people's opinions, that particular one doesn't count for me at least since I'm a new player and im affected negatively by this change...
If both kegs were made and kept available this wouldn't be such an issue in the first place.

 

[croloris]

- So basically to sum it up you're saying that you're more than okay with this change and ofc you'd be okay, you're done collecting the base ones so...yeah, sorry but your opinion doesn't count as you are not affected negatively by this.
There are new players to this game that will go through hell to complete the base set with this change.
You say that there might be something in the algorithm that won't let ya get certain cards through packs..? If that's a real thing going on then there's a false advertising issue in this game and no you don't get to compare it with real world tcgies as Gwent cards CANNOT be traded. False Equivalency.

Dude, i'm a week one console beta player who now plays exclusively on mobile... new players will hopefully never know the hell I've been through...i lose when i get a poorly timed phone call.

As for false equivalency, there is no successful card game / industry that doesn't mimic or attempt to replicate the most successful business models. If this method has worked for Magic and Pokemon, why wouldn't Gwent emulate it. Most customers either don't notice, don't care, or just craft/ buy what they want... so long as the product is solid.

I do understand the new players need to have all the cards and collect. Ihad a great time completing that journey. But I also have 75 base set kegs i would love to have upgraded as well.

 

[wonderboy870]

Aha...okay, I expected someone coming back to me with such a claim, so yeh... while I respect people's opinions, that particular one doesn't count for me at least since I'm a new player and im affected negatively by this change...
If both kegs were available there wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

The devils advocate answer is the health of the game is more important than the satisfaction of the player base. The too many kegs comment from the devs tells you they are displeased with the lack of purchase of kegs because it is too easy to get specific cards through kegs.

I however disagree completely with that position and side with you. The best thing for the game is to expand the player base by being more generous not less. Gwent is not going to make money by selling cards, it will do it by making its customers want to support the game. The only thing quality of life nerfs can do is shrink the player base and dissuade satisfaction based sales.

 

[judgecsk]

Dude, i'm a week one console beta player who now plays exclusively on mobile... new players will hopefully never know the hell I've been through...i lose when i get a poorly timed phone call.

As for false equivalency, there is no successful card game / industry that doesn't mimic or attempt to replicate the most successful business models. If this method has worked for Magic and Pokemon, why wouldn't Gwent emulate it. Most customers either don't notice, don't care, or just craft/ buy what they want... so long as the product is solid.

I do understand the new players need to have all the cards and collect. Ihad a great time completing that journey. But I also have 75 base set kegs i would love to have upgraded as well.

I'm sure you had a rough ride to say the least...
Look I have no quarrel with anyone in here, I'm just disappointed that there are people in here who actually believe that nerfing the player base's chances of getting what they want out of kegs is a good thing, less options is almost never a good thing, not for games not for anything.
Ofc I have to be respectful towards everyone in here and I do want that but I will be honest, I won't sugarcoat my answers.
They could add this keg instead of taking one out and getting one new in, "too many kegs in the shop" is a poor excuse imo, they could categorise em more effectively by having options like "faction kegs here", "expansion kegs here" with click to drop menus, that would reduce the space that kegs take in Gwen's shop thus minimising their visual effect on it's interface.

Cheers

 

[croloris]

But for the sake of argument let’s concede your point. Your odds are very low on card X. Now you increase the card pool X is in from 200 to 400. Now the very rare X is even more rare. So how does expanding the card pool improve the situation?

It doesn't improve the situation, nor does it worsen it. I had no chance if getting card rare x from the pack.

During beta Gwent ran legendary Gold day, where every card in every pack was a gold legendary. I opened 160 base keg packs that day and ended up missing 6 cards which i later crafted. 640 regular chances plus another 160x3 chances on the 5th card but still missed the cards.

I remembered it as odd, but didn't care because i got ~700 gold cards worth of scrap.

 

[Lexor]

It doesn't improve the situation, nor does it worsen it. I had no chance if getting card rare x from the pack.

It will make it worse. For example: if the chance is 1% and goes down to 0.1% then it goes down, it does not stay the same.

 

[X_dryureyes_X]

Do you see a lot of people complaining about how confusing is to find what you want in the shop with all them different kegs...?
I bet you won't find a single one, the kegs are categorized and labeled properly and give everyone a chance at getting what they want from each faction/expansion... the "solution" to the "problem" that they are offering is manufactured... not needed, we ask for neutral kegs and they come back to us with this..?
Nah man...nah...sorry but this is nothing more than an epic pro MLG trolling and they paint it as a "positive" thing.

I never believed it was confusing, I just believe as the number of expansions grow, the harder it will be for new players. There is a reason why other games rotate cards out of "standard" as it becomes expensive and harder to maintain the balance across factions.

I don't think its "manufactured" I believe its part of a much bigger problem. The devs are soon going to have a big decision to make, they either decrease the cost of kegs/cards from older sets or they rotate cards out of a "standard" game altogether. This time next year a new player will encounter potentially 6-7 expansions. How is that going to draw any new players?

 

[Lexor]

How is that going to draw any new players?

They still will not need all these cards. Every deck has 25 cards, that's all they need to start.

Gwent is not an MMORPG where you need all DLCs to build the most viable character to play.

 

[Luckless_Jack]

Sadly, if the more recent history of economy changes in Homecoming teaches us anything, it is that this is just the start of changes for kegs. It is likely to become even less favourable to the players in future.

Some may benefit from this particular change (myself included), but I doubt it will end here.

I'm not a believer in "pulling up the ladder after me", I'd rather everyone gets the chance to continue benefiting from a more fair and generous system.

New players especially are getting a rougher and rougher deal as time goes on. That is not a recipe for great player retention in the long run, and is thus not good for the long term health of the game.

 

[X_dryureyes_X]

They still will not need all these cards. Every deck has 25 cards, that's all they need to start.

Gwent is not an MMORPG where you need all DLCs to build the most viable character to play.

No they dont, but how many players are going to stick around knowing how hard it is to get a competitive deck and if they do, it could be nerfed and ruined the following month causing you to chase another viable deck. This will not retain players. Like it or not this game will need new players, if it doesnt it will be sat with Elder Scrolls Legends. Ask that player bases how expensive and impossible it was to maintain.