Ultimate kegs replacing base kegs

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No they dont, but how many players are going to stick around knowing how hard it is to get a competitive deck and if they do, it could be nerfed and ruined the following month causing you to chase another viable deck. This will not retain players.
Yes, they do, for a start. (I will repeat it: for a start).

The other thing you mentioned it was already going on and will be going on every month. Nothing will change that. I did not play Gwent during beta, so I had a lot of cards to get at start, but I was able to get in game quite quickly as I did not need all these cards at start, just a good 25 of them to create my first competitive deck.

Like it or not this game will need new players, if it doesnt it will be sat with Elder Scrolls Legends. Ask that player bases how expensive and impossible it was to maintain.
I know that every game needs new players to be alive, but that's quite another (and much much bigger) subject to talk on. Change of kegs we are talking about here is just a small step, it will not change much as the game is already heading in wrong direction. But it's not a reason to not comment wrong decisions - I think we all like this game and we all would not like it to be closed.
 
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Yes, they do, for a start. (I will repeat it: for a start).

The other thing you mentioned it was already going on and will be going on every month. Nothing will change that. I did not play Gwent during beta, so I had a lot of cards to get at start, but I was able to get in game quite quickly as I did not need all these cards at start, just a good 25 of them to create my first competitive deck.


I know that every game needs new players to be alive, but that's quite another (and much much bigger) subject to talk on. Change of kegs we are talking about here is just a small step, but it will not change much as the game is already heading in wrong direction. But it's not a reason to not comment wrong decisions - we all like this game and we all would not like it to be closed.

I disagree on both counts. When I joined Beta there were certain Legendary cards that were vital to victory. Igni was one such card. In the current meta most decks are held together by certain key cards. It is true you can build a passable deck with limited resources, but not a deck that can compete with most net decks. Moreover, even with one such deck you would be limited in options which is bad for things like daily quests and exploration of multiple factions.

To your other point, the difference is not small. People like getting things, but they hate having things taken from them. Every time the devs have taken things from the player base (it has been happening more and more lately,) the base gets more upset. Little things add up and angering existing players while discouraging new players is bad business. As you said yourself the game is heading in the wrong direction. The last thing Gwent needs is to accelerate down the wrong path by making these kinds of unforced errors. The player base got them to undo the Gaunter’s nerf and maybe we can talk sense into them.
 
The "Ultimate Kegs" (and all kegs) should include the same duplicate protection feature as Hearthstone where you will not get a third (second for gold cards) copy of any card until you have first collected two (one for gold cards) copies of every card of that rarity.
 
Yes, they do, for a start. (I will repeat it: for a start).

I agreed with you about not requiring every card?

Also, and i ask again, how is this game going to retain new players when there is over 1000 cards in a pool and cards are nerfed and not compensated month after month? A player can spend 1k scraps for a card to be useless the following month. This may not seem like a lot to a long-term player but that's not my argument.

I know that every game needs new players to be alive, but that's quite another (and much much bigger) subject to talk on. Change of kegs we are talking about here is just a small step, but it will not change much as the game is already heading in wrong direction. But it's not a reason to not comment wrong decisions - we all like this game and we all would not like it to be closed.

This is not a small change for a new player, this is just pure ignorance. Have a look at the kegs available and tell me how a new player is supposed to obtain base cards? They sell expansion specific kegs and faction kegs, the card pool is huge and chances of getting the base cards gets lower per expansion.
 
@wonderboy870 @X_dryureyes_X I think you didn't read my other posts in this thread where I already expressed point that this change is a very bad one. Now I used the words "small step" but I compared it to whole direction where the game is heading - at the current stage this game needs complete revamp of the options and play offered to a new player. It's like: one storm is nothing when compared to global Earth environment but it still does damage.
 
I never believed it was confusing, I just believe as the number of expansions grow, the harder it will be for new players. There is a reason why other games rotate cards out of "standard" as it becomes expensive and harder to maintain the balance across factions.

I don't think its "manufactured" I believe its part of a much bigger problem. The devs are soon going to have a big decision to make, they either decrease the cost of kegs/cards from older sets or they rotate cards out of a "standard" game altogether. This time next year a new player will encounter potentially 6-7 expansions. How is that going to draw any new players?

- Basicaly what @Lexor replied covers what i would say on the matter.

- I see what you're saying, i think what you're describing can be a legitimate issue indeed but imo it shouldn't overlap with the subject of card attainability.
Imo no well reasoned players should expect that collecting all the cards will be an easy task by playing this game as a f2p.

--[ Story Time ]--​

When i started playing this game i bought the Ultimate starter pack right after the tutorial screen, now i'm not saying that every one should follow this example but it's reasonable i think to ponder on why i did that.
I did that because i liked the game for years, playing in TW3 for hours on end, sometimes i would just bootup the game just to play some Gwent.

I love the game believe you me, i really do love it, so i thought to my self, "i might aswell buy in and get a good headstart", since i felt like i'm gonna be spending more than 500 hours playing this and i do legitimately believe that good games and good companies should be rewarded with our hard earned cash.
I even payed for the combo MM pack.


- I still believe in CDPR and love the game but all these changes we had this past year don't make it easy for me to keep on trusting them blindly like i did.
I bought the first journey and even bought the premium 25lvls on the second one.
If you put them numbers down and count the cash you can recognise a "payment plan" type.
The subscription plan, i've played WoW for years, played SWATOR (f2p with a sub plan), i'm not against subscriptions or paying for convenience, i'm against paying for a random chance on the "slots" especially when the odds keep on building and stacking against me.
Is that so unreasonable... am i too greedy..? -- i'm not playing this game for free, i pay regularly for a lot of different stuff, so why would i want more randomness in a game
i pay to play...?
 
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I thought it might be insightful to estimate the difference between acquiring all legendary cards through buying ultimate kegs and by buying each expansion separately. Based upon probabilistic calculations I looked up and have confidence in, and assuming every legendary card has equal chance of being drawn, on the average it will take 886 legendary cards to get a complete current collection (disregarding Thronebreaker cards) of purchased through faction kegs, and 1091 legendary cards if purchased through ultimate kegs. This does not account for the effect of future expansions. I disregarded all other card rarities because generally legendaries are the hardest to acquire.

***** correction *****
I forgot the MM expansion in computing the expected number of legendaries needed to obtain a full set from the ultimate keg. The correct figure is approximately 1225.
 
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I thought it might be insightful to estimate the difference between acquiring all legendary cards through buying ultimate kegs and by buying each expansion separately. Based upon probabilistic calculations I looked up and have confidence in, and assuming every legendary card has equal chance of being drawn, on the average it will take 886 legendary cards to get a complete current collection (disregarding Thronebreaker cards) of purchased through faction kegs, and 1091 legendary cards if purchased through ultimate kegs. This does not account for the effect of future expansions. I disregarded all other card rarities because generally legendaries are the hardest to acquire.
Good thinking mate, thanks for doing the math for the community, could you posibly make an example for the
card attainability with a direct comparison to the normal base kegs we have atm and post it here for the people to see..?

Thanks in advance friend.
 
The "ultimate" keg:
- will not help the new players because it will spread out the cards whereas players would probably like to concentrate their efforts on certain expansions;
- will not help older players because the same rules apply - making it difficult for players to draw the cards they want;
- will not benefit CDPR because it really looks petty.

The shop can be as full of keg types as they wish to so the "oh, it's getting too complicated" is really a poor excuse. Add the ultimate keg, if you desire so, but keep the older kegs as well. Crafting is necessary either way as opening keg after keg after keg is ridiculous when you're only missing a few cards.

I understand that the game has to earn money but this is not the way to do it. I'd rather keep buying expansions cards, journeys and other vanity items than ever bother with the "ultimate".
 
Good thinking mate, thanks for doing the math for the community, could you posibly make an example for the
card attainability with a direct comparison to the normal base kegs we have atm and post it here for the people to see..?

Thanks in advance friend.
Half of your request is easy: the computation I looked up indicated the expected number of trials to obtain all of n equally likely outcomes is approximately n * ln n. By my count, there were 112 base set legendaries, do obtaining all would require enough kegs to obtain approximately 528 legendaries. But this is not a fair comparison, because the approximately 1225 (a corrected figure) legendaries required for ultimate packs is the number needed to obtain all 226 legendaries of all expansions. Moreover, I do not allow for the effect of choosing from 3 cards, or for a player to already hold some legendary cards, or for a player to stop buying kegs and craft the final cards. Unfortunately, the formula does not apply to any of these cases. I may be able to derive a formula to estimate some of these cases, but that will require a messy, original, hours long derivation, rather than one I look up. I might feel like doing it sometime, but not immediately.
 
To be honest the game is so generous that this is just a little change...
Just play a little and you will get a lot... I mean, it's a real free to play, can't understand complains for this..

You can't tailor a game for literally everyone's needs.

THIS ^^ ^^ agreed

I have to say kudos to CDPR on this change.

I'm not surprised at the negativity to this given the rants in the 175 thread . I would say most of my posts there also are relevant this thread.

- the main complaints boil down to its makes it "too hard" "too hard for ( FTP) new players "

again relevant posts in 175 thread.

- IMO RNG in packs should be more than it is .

This is a collectible card game . if you "pay" to buy 100 packs there is no way you should get everything you're looking for . You should get a tone of duplicate bronze less rares with duplicates and less premium with duplicates

( inb4 " loot boxes and "gambling" ) / disagree.

Again this is a collectable card game. Your collection should count for more than it does

( IB4 but that's "p2w" and not fair to some players ) / disagree

-@mirage is correct the game is almost too generous to the point it's "too easy" "too quick" to make a decent collection and make "competitive deck"

so basically just going to say /disagree to all the comments opposed to this.
 
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Honestly can't stand how negative this community is and kudos to CDPR for putting up with us.

Maybe because CDPR put them through a lot?
But they stick around because they love the game?

Maybe you should give kudos to long term players for keeping the game alive. Just a thought...
 
Maybe because CDPR put them through a lot?
But they stick around because they love the game?

Maybe you should give kudos to long term players for keeping the game alive. Just a thought...

I completely disagree with this "because reasons" .

( translation : I going to stop there as I don't know how to phrase my reasoning within the boundaries of the forum rules.)
 
Just a quick suggestion for the too many different kegs in the shop. I would just remove all expansion kegs and replace it with the ultimate keg. However, before you open the ultimate keg, you can select which expansions you want enabled. This selection is saved (but editable) for every subsequent keg you open. Problem solved. Now everyone can pick whatever they want.
 
Just a quick suggestion for the too many different kegs in the shop. I would just remove all expansion kegs and replace it with the ultimate keg. However, before you open the ultimate keg, you can select which expansions you want enabled. This selection is saved (but editable) for every subsequent keg you open. Problem solved. Now everyone can pick whatever they want.
Yes, but that would basically defeat the purpose of their ultimate keg. Please keep in mind that they can design the shop as they please. It's not as if they're bound by anything in particular.
 
So there's no longer a way to work on just your base set collection? Why not keep both?

Completely agree, makes absolutely zero sense to remove the base set kegs from the shop; and the excuse they used on twitter that there are already too many kegs is complete BS, as if one more keg is going to make a difference.

Sometimes it just boggles the mind what the hell the Gwent team is thinking with changes like this.

The only good part is the reward tree change; but even there it would be much better to offer a keg point and be able to redeem it for a keg you want in the store.
 
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rrc

Forum veteran
Based on some previous speculations and comments from this thread, I think this move is to remove all the expansion kegs and only have Ultimate Keg and Faction Keg and when the next expansion hits, the ONLY way to get the expansion keg is to get it through Pre-Orders. So, if you want to quickly build your expansion collection, you will have to pre-order it or good luck getting it from ultimate kegs. From player's perspective, it would seems like a horrible move (and it is for the players), but for CDPR it would make sense. What is the point of pre-ordering when just by spending 5000 ores you can get ALMOST ALL cards you are ever going to get from the expansion kegs? And as always, there will be so much powercreep that you will have to pre-order otherwise suffer in front of the new powerful cards. Just my speculations.. I wish I am thoroughly wrong, though.
 
The thing is: other games like Gwent are based on F2P players and the rule to earn money here is not quality of players but their quantity as the more F2P players the more impulse purchases are eventually made. Right now CDPR is doing everything to make F2P players' life worse, so their quantity will decrease and CDPR will earn less money in the end. The best way to earn the money is not to restrict availability of base things needed to be a competitive player in the game, majority of earnings should come from things like skins (and they will if the base of players is big enough).
 
Just a quick suggestion for the too many different kegs in the shop. I would just remove all expansion kegs and replace it with the ultimate keg. However, before you open the ultimate keg, you can select which expansions you want enabled. This selection is saved (but editable) for every subsequent keg you open. Problem solved. Now everyone can pick whatever they want.

"Problem solved"

If you read my response it does not seem the problem is solved as far as my opinion goes .

I believe a the better phrasing would be "problem solved for the people opposed to this change"

And as another user stated it defeats the ultimate purpose of the change.

why bother changing anything if you are going to do that?

Other comments in the opposed category since my last response

/disagree
You can't tailor a game for literally everyone's needs.

Losing customers ( especially FTP customer ) due to churn for various reason is a natural part of the business cycle. "Infinite growth" without loss is a business impossibility
 
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Based on some previous speculations and comments from this thread, I think this move is to remove all the expansion kegs and only have Ultimate Keg and Faction Keg and when the next expansion hits, the ONLY way to get the expansion keg is to get it through Pre-Orders. So, if you want to quickly build your expansion collection, you will have to pre-order it or good luck getting it from ultimate kegs. From player's perspective, it would seems like a horrible move (and it is for the players), but for CDPR it would make sense. What is the point of pre-ordering when just by spending 5000 ores you can get ALMOST ALL cards you are ever going to get from the expansion kegs? And as always, there will be so much powercreep that you will have to pre-order otherwise suffer in front of the new powerful cards. Just my speculations.. I wish I am thoroughly wrong, though.
This is pretty much my expectation too. Like I said above, CDPR have been making more and more moves like this of late. They are clearly looking for ways to encourage more purchases. Their prior aim to make money through mostly cosmetic sales was laudable, but perhaps wasn't bringing in enough.

Despite all the reward nerfs, the game is still just throwing keys at players, which enables us to earn hundreds of kegs without paying any additional money. They can't easily cut the number of keys or kegs without too much outcry, so making the kegs less targetted and hence less useful is a subtle way of nerfing card acquisition. They've already made premium cards, especially legendaries, extremely difficult to obtain without spending money, perhaps they are now targetting standard card acquisition too.

Removing the ability to obtain expansion kegs without paying real money as you say above, would be another way of "encouraging" more real money sales. Incidentally, what's to say the next change won't be to make expansion cards non-craftable for a set period after the expansion drops? Is this what you were thinking with what you said above?

As I said previously, if CDPR need to nerf resource rewards in order to make sufficient money from Gwent to keep it going, fair enough. I just would prefer them to be open about it, rather than trying to pretend they are making changes for other spurious reasons. It just creates distrust and bad feelings.

I spent a lot of money buying kegs in Beta, so I am fortunate to have plenty of scraps still to play with. These keg changes won't affect my ability to obtain new cards without expansion kegs (for now). Again though, this just makes things worse for newer players. It will also further separate the scrap rich Beta players from the newer players, which may cause some resentment. I just worry for the health of the game as a whole.

Personally, I think Journey seems like it could be the most dependable money maker, as long as they don't keep making it less appealing to buy. If the vast majority of players see that as fun and great value and basically a "no brainer", surely that should provide a solid source of regular income? I guess that is the "carrot" approach, perhaps it is not working and they are now looking more at the "stick" options?
 
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