Refunds being misused

[crspears]

My mate bought the game finished it and asked for a refund. I told him that is wrong because surely to have a refund you shouldn't be enjoying the game all the way though and disclosed an issue early on which stopped you playing the game. I think it is a bit unfair really those asking for refunds should have to prove at least they were badly affected by the bugs or unable to play the game what do you think?

I really hope CDPR can continue to make games as wonder how bad they effected by this

he actually followed the refund policy as stated here

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340013516628103170

if he personally enjoyed the game and did this when it met all of his expectations, then he probably misused it

Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2020

To be fair 2 hrs is not much in a game where you spend the first 30 minutes in character creation, and the game is around 80 hrs long if you do everything. I think they should increase it to 3-4 hours.

should be based off of a milestone achievement and date of purchase imo
even the launcher adds time to your steam hours

 

[Nx_Machina]

There is no arguing with people who believe that whataboutisms are valid arguments. You have obviously nothing of value to add to this conversation and i see no reason to further argue with someone who apparently actually believes the following: If someone orders a pizza (just to stay with this ridiculous premise) with pepperoni and then after having payed for it, while eating said pizza, the pepperoni is removed... you actually argue that this person has no grounds to demand a refund.. none whatsoever... there is no arguing against such utter nonsense! You apparently exist in a completely different universe than me!

You are free to an opinion as am I but more importantly you need to give convincing arguments with regard to "censorship" been a valid reason for refunding.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient. Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies.

Thank you for the conversation.

 

[crspears]

It remind me of this.

View attachment 11109023

absolute state of console gamers lmao
i was hoping for unconditional refunds on PC platforms but we don't get it
if we did I would ask for the game to be removed, so I could reserve the right to support the project in the future
if the game isnt removed from your account you do not have the ability to support the company should they remedy the quality of the product

 

[Nx_Machina]

You regard to the OP's original post and thread title I decided to list the refund policies from the other services especially with regard to how easy it is supposedly to get a refund on GOG no matter the length of time played.

1) Steam's refund policy: Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

2) Epic's refund policy: Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

3) Uplay's refund policy: No returns / refunds will be offered for digital products except if we cannot deliver you the game.

4)Origin's refund policy: Whichever comes first.

Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.
Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.
Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

5) GOG's refund policy: Starting now.

You can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it.

IMPORTANT: We're currently monitoring the effects of our updated voluntary Refund Policy to avoid potential abuse. We care about our developers, so each refund request is treated individually. Please keep in mind that we reserve the right to refuse a refund in specific cases.


Note: GOG's policy is not so open ended with regard to PC games and should not be abused causing it to be removed to the detriment of all.

 

[xXAerilonXx]

You are free to an opinion as am I but more importantly you need to give convincing arguments with regard to "censorship" been a valid reason for refunding.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient. Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions, and other controlling bodies.

Thank you for the conversation.

Covering body parts is "suppresion of other information". Since Information can be visual.

You say that censoring can't be a reason for a refund and I would agree with you As long As the censoring took place before the product Was delivered. If it takes place afterwards it is not only censoring it is also altering with the product. Not Sure if that is a reason for a refund but it definitely is a reason to be upset.

And altering a product or change it After delivery is in my opinion false advertising then. At least where I live a product Has to be exact at is is advertised and if not (or changed silently to not in the state As it was advertised before) that is considered fraud by law.

 

[overhyped2077]

The problem is that their argument of "censorship is not a valid reason to refund" is simply their opinion, and they refuse to see that or facts placed before them. As I mentioned with Steam, you're allowed to refund a game for any reason, so if your reason is censorship, then you CAN get a refund. End of story.

Edit: As I also stated in my first post, you do need to meet other requirements (in the case of Steam, be within 14 days and "under 2 hours") but that is besides the point. You can request a refund for that or any reason. If Steam did not believe censorship was an option to refund the game they would have to remove the language of "any reason" or change it to read "*does not include reasons of censorship" which it does not.

 

[Nx_Machina]

Covering body parts is "suppresion of other information". Since Information can be visual.

You say that censoring can't be a reason for a refund and I would agree with you As long As the censoring took place before the product Was delivered. If it takes place afterwards it is not only censoring it is also altering with the product. Not Sure if that is a reason for a refund but it definitely is a reason to be upset.

And altering a product or change it After delivery is in my opinion false advertising then. At least where I live a product Has to be exact at is is advertised and if not (or changed silently to not in the state As it was advertised before) that is considered fraud by law.

No game is the game you purchased because it will be patched (altered, changed) from the release version you downloaded.

No game on release is a definitive version therefore it cannot advertised falsely as it is an evolving product and developers can without recourse to anyone alter a product due to copyright etc of the product they own.

It is not fraud because you only own license to play a game not the game itself.

Post automatically merged: Dec 23, 2020

The problem is that their argument of "censorship is not a valid reason to refund" is simply their opinion, and they refuse to see that or facts placed before them. As I mentioned with Steam, you're allowed to refund a game for any reason, so if your reason is censorship, then you CAN get a refund. End of story.

Edit: As I also stated in my first post, you do need to meet other requirements (in the case of Steam, be within 14 days and "under 2 hours") but that is besides the point. You can request a refund for that or any reason. If Steam did not believe censorship was an option to refund the game they would have to remove the language of "any reason" or change it to read "*does not include reasons of censorship" which it does not.

Except under law "censorship" is not a valid reason to refund, a point you refuse to accept despite the facts. Try going to court after Valve refuse a refund and see if you win or whether the lawyer does not choke on their coffee first after you explain what you want to do.

On Steam you are under no obligation to give a reason for an automatic refund. For a manual refund you have to give a reason if you are outside of the refund policy and it is only discretionary. Try typing "censorship" as the reason.

Yes it is only my opinion as it is yours, both are equally valid.

 

[GrimReaper801]

No game on release is a definitive version therefore it cannot advertised falsely as it is an evolving product and developers can without recourse to anyone alter a product due to copyright etc of the product they own.

Oooff, that's a bold statement if ever there was one. Also completely wrong.

Games are not exempt of advertisements laws because they're "ever evolving products" not at all. There is definitely a lot that can change and it wouldn't be false advertisement but the base premise of your advertisement must remain true.

Disclaimer: I am not in any way, shape or form saying that this is what happened or not with CP - not trying to start that argument in case anyone wants to.

Except under law "censorship" is not a valid reason to refund, a point you refuse to accept despite the facts. Try going to court after Valve refuse a refund and see if you win or whether the lawyer does not choke on their coffee first after you explain what you want to do.

On Steam you are under no obligation to give a reason for an automatic refund. For a manual refund you have to give a reason if you are outside of the refund policy and it is only discretionary. Try typing "censorship" as the reason.

Yes it is only my opinion as it is yours, both are equally valid.

While I agree with you on censorship being a shit excuse by itself and it holding absolutely no value as far as the law is concerned (vis-a-vis refunds), that's just not how these companies word it.

They all issue refund for whatever reason you want as long as you are still within the accepted times. As such, censorship, even only perceived, is a perfectly valid reason. Definitely not gonna hold up in court or as the base for an exception to the refund rules but a valid reason nonetheless.

 

[sommojames]

I believe CDPR is aware, this is just a cost they are willing to pay to regain their reputation with console users

 

[Baelinyth]

And yet there is nudity in the game, cutscenes and on the inventory screen, so again it is not falsely advertised.

Bioware promised a full immersive world with Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda a whole new experience across mutiple galaxies (abandoned).

Fallout 76, Todd Howard "you'll never see a server", crash, crash, crash..............

CDPR are not the antichrist nor the first to backtrack, nor will they be the last but the difference is Cyberpunk was the most anticipated game of 2020 and you will always disappoint someone, including those who never even bought and post worthless user reviews on Metacritic.

So why not go for "my girlfriend left me, my best friend started dating her, I burnt my pizza, and the shower was cold" is still not a valid reason to refund and neither is censorship.

Partial nudity =/= No censorship. And even the partial part is ... questionable. Seeing a stripper in the red light district dancing in business cloths or seeing the pole dancing hologram with all parts covered up is not really in the realms of uncensored. The parts that are, are so few that is pathetic to actually call it uncensored.

We were promised a full mature content experience (where I do not only count the nudity thing. Mature content involves a lot more for me personally, but that stuff is actually missing as a whole. So no real arguments there). We get said uncensored content in about 10-15% of the game. Which leaves about 85-90% censored. Not as advertised.

Fallout 76, Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda. All good examples for refundable games. That the customers did not do so, or did not do so in the same manner as with CP2077, somehow shows me how used to this kind of stuff from those companies they already were. Does that mean though that CDPR should get away with it? No. It does not.

Instead of the RPG to end all RPGs we got a mediocre and linear story. A very basic skill system. Uninspired characters. A world that is so ... bland I thought I had Covid because I couldn't taste the salt. What I expected (yes, EXPECTED. MY expectation) was a Robocop-like dystopia that was ruled by greed and whatever company got the most shares at the moment. A time in the future where being a good person simply meant not being as fucked up as the rest around you. Not a lawless place but a place like the Judge Dredd Universe. Where law enforcement was more or less able to contain the masses. Where even the supposedly "good guys" are corruptable. That is something I expect from mature content. A place that is so broken, that your first objective is to survive. The answer to "how?" comes way later or the question simply isn't asked in the first place.

CDPR are not the antichrist. Neither does anyone make them out to be. They are just lying pieces of ****. That said "leave greed to other". "The game is released when ready". That is all the community is so frustrated about. If they were honest from the very beginning, they would not have that kind of backlash right now. If they had, during the whole development process, given information about the ACTUAL state of the game and not about what kind of state the game might be in (in the dreams of CEOs) or which state they wished it would be in, then we could have made a more educated decision and would not be as pissed and disappointed as we are now.

So yeah. FALSE ADVERTISEMENT all the way.

The girlfriend leaving and best friend dating her has nothing to do with this argument. Said friend is a piece of ****. Bros before hos. Neither does the shower (at least not in that context). A cold shower is just a cold shower. During a vacation in a hotel? Subject to refund. In your home? Turn hot water on or check if you pad the bills. A burnt pizza, at least at some places, you can return and request a decent one or get your money back. Where I am from, food that is not to your liking is actually subject to refunds.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

m8 cyberpunk 2077 sold 13 million copies as of right now and that includes the refunds. that is more than gta 5 sold at the same time. i think cdpr will do OKAY, they have enough money to give people the refunds and update the game

 

[sommojames]

m8 cyberpunk 2077 sold 13 million copies as of right now and that includes the refunds. that is more than gta 5 sold at the same time. i think cdpr will do OKAY, they have enough money to give people the refunds and update the game

Yes, also remeber that for each copy sold CDPR makes more profit than Rockstar, since workforce in Poland (and cost of life in general) is much cheaper than in US

 

[Guest 4509026]

Actually CDPR's refund policy is not as flexible as you think and when someone abuses the system by fully playing the game within the 30 day timeframe then asks for refund, you cannot claim innocence.

Actually you're 100% incorrect.

GOG Voluntary Refund Policy

How does your updated Voluntary Refund Policy work?The updated policy lets you refund a product up to 30 days after purchase, even if it was downloaded, launched, and played. Yes, you read that cor...

support.gog.com

QUOTE: "The updated policy lets you refund a product up to 30 days after purchase, even if it was downloaded, launched, and played. Yes, you read that correctly. "

Where did you get the idea that beating the game invalidates your refund? Please source your claim as I have done with mine.

 

[Nx_Machina]

Oooff, that's a bold statement if ever there was one. Also completely wrong.

Games are not exempt of advertisements laws because they're "ever evolving products" not at all. There is definitely a lot that can change and it wouldn't be false advertisement but the base premise of your advertisement must remain true.

Disclaimer: I am not in any way, shape or form saying that this is what happened or not with CP - not trying to start that argument in case anyone wants to.

I am a graphic designer and I am fully aware of guidelines regarding product advertisements including games but feel free to prove me wrong rather than make a bold statement with "completely wrong".

While I agree with you on censorship being a shit excuse by itself and it holding absolutely no value as far as the law is concerned (vis-a-vis refunds), that's just not how these companies word it. They all issue refund for whatever reason you want as long as you are still within the accepted times. As such, censorship, even only perceived, is a perfectly valid reason. Definitely not gonna hold up in court or as the base for an exception to the refund rules but a valid reason nonetheless.

And you need to be within the criteria to receive a refund. You could use any excuse but you are not obligated to provide a reason unless the refund exceeds the limits of the criteria. This however does not alter the fact that under law "censorship" is not a valid reason nor is written into law with regard to refunds altough you did agree on the point of censorship.

"I am returning this tv because the BBC bleeped out swear words and blurred graphic images therefore I demand a refund due to censorship". Comedy moment of the day and a story to tell your grandchildren.

 

[Guest 4375874]

My mate bought the game finished it and asked for a refund. I told him that is wrong because surely to have a refund you shouldn't be enjoying the game all the way though and disclosed an issue early on which stopped you playing the game. I think it is a bit unfair really those asking for refunds should have to prove at least they were badly affected by the bugs or unable to play the game what do you think?

I really hope CDPR can continue to make games as wonder how bad they effected by this

I agree with you but maybe it's for the best. I feel the majority of those are ppl that just jumped onto the hype train but had no interest in the game in the first place. Better that those toxic few leave the community. The rest will stick around for 2 or 3 play throughs and because they are looking forward to future additions to the game and you'll need the game for that.

 

[Nx_Machina]

Actually you're 100% incorrect.

GOG Voluntary Refund Policy

How does your updated Voluntary Refund Policy work?The updated policy lets you refund a product up to 30 days after purchase, even if it was downloaded, launched, and played. Yes, you read that cor...

support.gog.com

QUOTE: "The updated policy lets you refund a product up to 30 days after purchase, even if it was downloaded, launched, and played. Yes, you read that correctly. "

Where did you get the idea that beating the game invalidates your refund? Please source your claim as I have done with mine.

Where did you get the idea you could refund after beating the game or playing for countless hours?

Have you requested a refund from GOG? Did you receive an email?

email example: https://ibb.co/qmxVZ40

Posted here: We're currently monitoring the effects of our updated voluntary Refund Policy to avoid potential abuse. We care about our developers, so each refund request is treated individually. Please keep in mind that we reserve the right to refuse a refund in specific cases.

Please note the following:

1) our VOLUNTARY refund policy (no obligation to refund).

2) avoid potential ABUSE.

3) reserve the RIGHT to REFUSE a refund in specific cases

Specific cases? open ended - completed the game? countless hours?

 

[IskrasFemme]

REFUNDS BEING MISUSED - I would just complete the sentence with:

... 'by private monopolies or oligopolies'

 

[Guest 4509026]

Have you requested a refund from GOG? Did you receive an email?

Yes I've requested a refund (day 5 now because I waited and gave them a chance with patch 1.5). I've received 3 or 4 automated responses from CDPR. None of them stated that beating the game invalidates my refund request. Last one I received (today) assured me that all requests made within the 30 day limit will be honored regardless when they actually get to my ticket.

I think you're making an assumption that when they say abuse, they mean beating the game. No where does it state that beating the game invalidates your refund request. Until I see that exact statement from CDRP I'm going to rightfully assume this is something you want to be true, but isn't reality and simply exists in your head.

 

[Nx_Machina]

Partial nudity =/= No censorship. And even the partial part is ... questionable. Seeing a stripper in the red light district dancing in business cloths or seeing the pole dancing hologram with all parts covered up is not really in the realms of uncensored. The parts that are, are so few that is pathetic to actually call it uncensored.

We were promised a full mature content experience (where I do not only count the nudity thing. Mature content involves a lot more for me personally, but that stuff is actually missing as a whole. So no real arguments there). We get said uncensored content in about 10-15% of the game. Which leaves about 85-90% censored. Not as advertised.

Fallout 76, Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda. All good examples for refundable games. That the customers did not do so, or did not do so in the same manner as with CP2077, somehow shows me how used to this kind of stuff from those companies they already were. Does that mean though that CDPR should get away with it? No. It does not.

Instead of the RPG to end all RPGs we got a mediocre and linear story. A very basic skill system. Uninspired characters. A world that is so ... bland I thought I had Covid because I couldn't taste the salt. What I expected (yes, EXPECTED. MY expectation) was a Robocop-like dystopia that was ruled by greed and whatever company got the most shares at the moment. A time in the future where being a good person simply meant not being as fucked up as the rest around you. Not a lawless place but a place like the Judge Dredd Universe. Where law enforcement was more or less able to contain the masses. Where even the supposedly "good guys" are corruptable. That is something I expect from mature content. A place that is so broken, that your first objective is to survive. The answer to "how?" comes way later or the question simply isn't asked in the first place.

CDPR are not the antichrist. Neither does anyone make them out to be. They are just lying pieces of ****. That said "leave greed to other". "The game is released when ready". That is all the community is so frustrated about. If they were honest from the very beginning, they would not have that kind of backlash right now. If they had, during the whole development process, given information about the ACTUAL state of the game and not about what kind of state the game might be in (in the dreams of CEOs) or which state they wished it would be in, then we could have made a more educated decision and would not be as pissed and disappointed as we are now.

So yeah. FALSE ADVERTISEMENT all the way.

The girlfriend leaving and best friend dating her has nothing to do with this argument. Said friend is a piece of ****. Bros before hos. Neither does the shower (at least not in that context). A cold shower is just a cold shower. During a vacation in a hotel? Subject to refund. In your home? Turn hot water on or check if you pad the bills. A burnt pizza, at least at some places, you can return and request a decent one or get your money back. Where I am from, food that is not to your liking is actually subject to refunds.

And that is your viewpoint.

I always form my own opinion of games, never read or watch reviews and will never jump on the anti CDPR, Cyberpunk hype train despite others trying to convince me otherwise. Thank god for freewill and brainwashing is not commonplace.

I am thoroughly enjoying Cyberpunk and personally have found it to be a great experience and it will be added to my replay list. As for the game I respect CDPR for what wanted to achieve with Cyberpunk and they did very well in my opinion. Great game not perfect, but then again I had no expectations before playing it and I never fall for the hype. They did however error on console.

I didn't buy Fallout 76, Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda because I did not want to play them at all but you ignored my point about them been overhyped. I did buy Cyberpunk because I wanted to play it and I do play it and oddly no one can turn off my PC but me.

False advertising? No but feel free to contact your local authority, agency if you feel you have a case.

 

[crspears]

I am a graphic designer and I am fully aware of guidelines regarding product advertisements including games but feel free to prove me wrong rather than make a bold statement with "completely wrong".

are they guidelines or laws? please provide a source for this. I am interested