Is this game an rpg?

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I have the crazy theory that if you can't play different roles then it's not an RPG. If you can't choose your psychology, side with whoever you want and well... Roleplay, then it's not an RPG.
People never agree with that because it makes games as The Witcher, mass effect, CP77 an many other great AAA games not RPG and people cand stand that.
But nowadays, you set a linear story in an open world with some level system and that's it. RPG's as assassin creed... :S
I haven't played a real role-playing game since fallout NV, i think, and I miss it a lot.
 
I have the crazy theory that if you can't play different roles then it's not an RPG. If you can't choose your psychology, side with whoever you want and well... Roleplay, then it's not an RPG.
People never agree with that because it makes games as The Witcher, mass effect, CP77 an many other great AAA games not RPG and people cand stand that.
But nowadays, you set a linear story in an open world with some level system and that's it. RPG's as assassin creed... :S
I haven't played a real role-playing game since fallout NV, i think, and I miss it a lot.
I disagree, and it is not because of Witcher, AAA games, or any computer role playing game.

In every role playing game, roles have expectations and limitations, and you can play "different roles" within the bounds of those. Even in table top RPGs, a player can encounter a situation where playing a role outside of expectations is frowned upon. This is often viewed as a disruptive player, and I have heard stories about these players being asked to leave, especially when things get taken to an extreme.

Computer games are more restrictive in this respect, simply because there is no AI that can adapt the setting, dialog, and outcome of the game to the whims of the player. The player must play the role within the bounds of the game design, like with Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and many others, but especially Witcher and Cyberpunk 2077.

CDPR does not have a rich background in RPG games, so one does not expect a lot freedom in the games they make. Cyberpunk is a little more tolerant than Witcher, but they are both limited, and both RPG games.
 
To me, it's the most RPG game that I've played.

A lot of other games like MMO's are also called RPGs but have significantly less RPG elements and consequences than cyberpunk.
Something like borderlands is also labelled RPG again with very minimal, if any, decisions lol.
 
To me, it's the most RPG game that I've played.

A lot of other games like MMO's are also called RPGs but have significantly less RPG elements and consequences than cyberpunk.
Something like borderlands is also labelled RPG again with very minimal, if any, decisions lol.


Because they're MMO's, the RPG is an old artifact, at best it comes from the class you are playing and the aesthetics tied to it, not your control over branching story choices, because the fact is the MMO genre is restricted by the principle of having to make continuous live delivery of content. How do you expect branching storylines in a genre where in order to do content, you have to group with people? Are you seriously expecting divergent raids and dungeons based on player choice? It would be unsustainable.

And where MMO does shine is in the radically different combat experience depending on the class you choose.

CP's combat by comparison is very samey; I have a full melee builds with 20 ref/20 body/18 tech/8 cool and I can whip out a sniper or shotgun and still 1-2 shot mooks on very hard without that different an experience from a guy who spent his perks on guns.

Won't even mention Witcher, which has a far, far worse combat system than Cyberpunk, very simplified and restrictive; sign based builds were totally worthless and eclipsed by sword and alchemy based builds, and your sword combos were so basic.

The strength of Witcher was not in its mediocre combat, but in the roleplaying narrative elements.
 
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I disagree, and it is not because of Witcher, AAA games, or any computer role playing game.

In every role playing game, roles have expectations and limitations, and you can play "different roles" within the bounds of those. Even in table top RPGs, a player can encounter a situation where playing a role outside of expectations is frowned upon. This is often viewed as a disruptive player, and I have heard stories about these players being asked to leave, especially when things get taken to an extreme.

Computer games are more restrictive in this respect, simply because there is no AI that can adapt the setting, dialog, and outcome of the game to the whims of the player. The player must play the role within the bounds of the game design, like with Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and many others, but especially Witcher and Cyberpunk 2077.

CDPR does not have a rich background in RPG games, so one does not expect a lot freedom in the games they make. Cyberpunk is a little more tolerant than Witcher, but they are both limited, and both RPG games.
Of course games are limited, specially by technology. Problem comes when limitations are narrative instead of technical. I dont think one forced role is enough to call rpg to a game, although nobody agrees with me...
As for the board games, the magnificent thing about them is that the only limitation is the imagination of both players and the master (sorry if thats not the word in english, i mean who is in charge of the game). Imo, if a master kick you out for going crazy within the game dynamics, its just a bad, unimaginative and unfriendly master.
Thing is, i love witcher (3 of them), but as an open world adventute game with choices that matter, and great linear story, but not ever as a role play game. As a Grpg, maybe: geralt of rivia play game. The only role available. Same than CP77.
 
Gotta get it out there that I'm not 100% against the game. It's a damn beautiful city if u point the camera UP. It's a VERY COOL WORLD, it's just not what it should be. Guys this is a world where u can switch out body parts, but cant get a new haircut or tattoo. ALL GEAR only affects combat....we need social stats!!! We should be able to sit in ANY CHAIR Bethesda style or legit have an animation for taking a shot at a bar. What about Braindances??! What about the "unprecedented number of romance options "? CDPR told us SOOOO MANY things in interviews and articles that they havent delivered on. Personally IM NOT REFUNDING, I'm hanging in there cause they did the Witcher!!! They can SOO do this they just need to focus and give us OPTIONS, and a truly LIVING, BREATHING CITY like they said.
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You R NOT WRONG!! I was pumped for this RPG in this type of world, but was given an Action/Adventure game instead. I personally STILL play the tabletop EVERY OTHER TUESDAY! It's such a cool world but this video game adaptation is not done correctly. It's all just fight, fight, fight. "Oh u got some eddies from ur last 2 missions? Awesome! Now spend them on NEW WEAPONS OR CLOTHES FOR LITERALLY MORE COMBAT!!!" Wheres the opportunity to LIVE in this world like I do every other Tuesday?
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Get em!!!


its pretty hard to simulate the combined narrative elements of TT game, so they decided to focus on just merc style gameplay. media, fixer, rocker,
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Of course games are limited, specially by technology. Problem comes when limitations are narrative instead of technical. I dont think one forced role is enough to call rpg to a game, although nobody agrees with me...
As for the board games, the magnificent thing about them is that the only limitation is the imagination of both players and the master (sorry if thats not the word in english, i mean who is in charge of the game). Imo, if a master kick you out for going crazy within the game dynamics, its just a bad, unimaginative and unfriendly master.
Thing is, i love witcher (3 of them), but as an open world adventute game with choices that matter, and great linear story, but not ever as a role play game. As a Grpg, maybe: geralt of rivia play game. The only role available. Same than CP77.

part of TT experience is a shared game. There is no way the game will survive if one player makes it bad for all the others.
 
its pretty hard to simulate the combined narrative elements of TT game, so they decided to focus on just merc style gameplay. media, fixer, rocker,


part of TT experience is a shared game. There is no way the game will survive if one player makes it bad for all the others.
If somedy bothers you (always talking within the game mechanics), feel free to give him sword. Death is a good medicine for an annoying character.
I remember once I played as a brainless berserker. I went with my pals to a tavern, caused some trouble trying to threat somebody. We ended up in jail cause of me and they ended up beheading me.
That was 5 guys roleplaying. It was amazingly funny and probably the most real rpg experience i've ever had.
 
What I meant was this - does the player have a choice to not be a combatant, and I'm not referring to dialogue sections, I mean the actual mission, does not killing and not being detected count as valid approaches in every mission or as a general gameplay options when you deal with enemy NPC's?
Your splitting hairs. Far Cry 5 its very close, almost alike to Cyberpunk 2077.
Cyberpunk 2077 as CDPR printed in their website is an open-world, action-adventure game.
You will not convince any serious RPG player this is an RPG. Just like you would not convinced anyone Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins are RPGs.
The more you try the more it does not look RPG. :facepalm:
 
Your splitting hairs. Far Cry 5 its very close, almost alike to Cyberpunk 2077.
Cyberpunk 2077 as CDPR printed in their website is an open-world, action-adventure game.
You will not convince any serious RPG player this is an RPG. Just like you would not convinced anyone Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins are RPGs.
The more you try the more it does not look RPG. :facepalm:

You can clearly play and sustain different roles through the game so it's definitely more of an RPG than The Witcher 2-3 gameplay wise, kind of like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.

I've played a Corpo Ninja Assassin that clearly does not give a shit about people's opinions (especially Johnny's) and it was both sustained through the dialogue options and gameplay.

I've done a Stealth Pacifist Streetkid that's relatively open to new ideas and searching for belonging and friendship and again it's sustained through both gameplay and dialogue.

Now I'm doing a street smart Netrunner Ghost Streetkid that's slowly changing from a happy positive person to an introvert that's being affected by the world they live in and again it's sustained through gameplay and dialogue.

My mate had a gung-ho Merc that slowly transformed into Johnny by the end of the game which was supported by both gameplay and story.

I'm planning on a Nomad Merc that want's to take the city head on and reach the top of the Afterlife food chain which will be sustained by both dialogue and gameplay.

As much as I know this will lead to another one of those circular arguments where people just move the goalposts to suit their arguments, I must ask, how many different characters can you play in Far Cry or Assassin's Creed that are both supported by narrative and gameplay?
 
Your splitting hairs. Far Cry 5 its very close, almost alike to Cyberpunk 2077.
Cyberpunk 2077 as CDPR printed in their website is an open-world, action-adventure game.
You will not convince any serious RPG player this is an RPG. Just like you would not convinced anyone Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins are RPGs.
The more you try the more it does not look RPG. :facepalm:
I am a serious RPG player, and that means that no computer game is really an RPG. We are decades away from the technology to do that at an economical price. This is why we have the term CRPG, for Computer RPG. Cyberpunk does qualify under that limited definition. More than TW3, but less than other games.

My curmudgeon nature aside, strictly speaking, any time the player takes on a character performing a role in a game, it is a role playing game. The definition is really very broad.

As with all CRPG, it is the degree to which these sorts of things are allowed that define _how good_ of an CRPG it is. This is not a binary, black or white, sort of thing. Cyberpunk is a CRPG, and there is no doubt about that, no matter what they say on their website. It is not really good at being an CRPG. though. They have a number of restrictions, limitations, and omissions that subtract from the game. This is likely why they quiety removed the reference from their website. In forum parlance: cut content.

I'd like to see them add to the game to make it a good CRPG. With everything that has happened, I am not holding my breath.
 
You can clearly play and sustain different roles through the game so it's definitely more of an RPG than The Witcher 2-3 gameplay wise, kind of like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.

I've played a Corpo Ninja Assassin that clearly does not give a shit about people's opinions (especially Johnny's) and it was both sustained through the dialogue options and gameplay.

I've done a Stealth Pacifist Streetkid that's relatively open to new ideas and searching for belonging and friendship and again it's sustained through both gameplay and dialogue.

Now I'm doing a street smart Netrunner Ghost Streetkid that's slowly changing from a happy positive person to an introvert that's being affected by the world they live in and again it's sustained through gameplay and dialogue.

My mate had a gung-ho Merc that slowly transformed into Johnny by the end of the game which was supported by both gameplay and story.

I'm planning on a Nomad Merc that want's to take the city head on and reach the top of the Afterlife food chain which will be sustained by both dialogue and gameplay.

As much as I know this will lead to another one of those circular arguments where people just move the goalposts to suit their arguments, I must ask, how many different characters can you play in Far Cry or Assassin's Creed that are both supported by narrative and gameplay?
"I've played a Corpo Ninja Assassin that clearly does not give a shit about people's opinions (especially Johnny's) and it was both sustained through the dialogue options and gameplay.

I've done a Stealth Pacifist Streetkid that's relatively open to new ideas and searching for belonging and friendship and again it's sustained through both gameplay and dialogue.

Now I'm doing a street smart Netrunner Ghost Streetkid that's slowly changing from a happy positive person to an introvert that's being affected by the world they live in and again it's sustained through gameplay and dialogue. "


To be honest is mostly sustained by gameplay. But you have the same think in Far Cry 5 like the other poster said:

"You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending. "

Dialogue difference is so weak its almost nonexistent. Roleplaying through consequences and decisions, branching is laughable compared with other real RPGs. Roleplaying through customization is laughable compared with other real RPG. Roleplaying though game being more interactive, having more things to do, replayability is laughable compared with other real RPGs. Roleplaying though game having more freedom and good exploration making you use your imagination and decide what to do next is laughable compared with other real RPG.

The RPG elements are present but weak like in Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins.
Containing some RPG elements does not make a game an RPG.
Some are lose with definitions and call a game like Assassins Creed Origins RPG .
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I am a serious RPG player, and that means that no computer game is really an RPG. We are decades away from the technology to do that at an economical price. This is why we have the term CRPG, for Computer RPG. Cyberpunk does qualify under that limited definition. More than TW3, but less than other games.

My curmudgeon nature aside, strictly speaking, any time the player takes on a character performing a role in a game, it is a role playing game. The definition is really very broad.

As with all CRPG, it is the degree to which these sorts of things are allowed that define _how good_ of an CRPG it is. This is not a binary, black or white, sort of thing. Cyberpunk is a CRPG, and there is no doubt about that, no matter what they say on their website. It is not really good at being an CRPG. though. They have a number of restrictions, limitations, and omissions that subtract from the game. This is likely why they quiety removed the reference from their website. In forum parlance: cut content.

I'd like to see them add to the game to make it a good CRPG. With everything that has happened, I am not holding my breath.
You have the same think in Far Cry 5 like the other poster said:

"You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending. "

Dialogue difference is so weak its almost nonexistent. Roleplaying through consequences and decisions, branching is laughable compared with other real RPGs. Roleplaying through customization is laughable compared with other real RPG. Roleplaying though game being more interactive, having more things to do, replayability is laughable compared with other real RPGs. Roleplaying though game having more freedom and good exploration making you use your imagination and decide what to do next is laughable compared with other real RPG.

The RPG elements are present but weak like in Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins.
Containing some RPG elements does not make a game an RPG.
Some are lose with definitions and call a game like Assassins Creed Origins RPG .
 
never played far cry, but if it has

A main character the player inhabits, where you can control their personality, and interactions
The ability to build your characters strengths and weaknesses through stats, items
and the characters decisions are able to effect the outcome of various events

then yes its an Rpg.

there's nothing extremely different from this game and neverwinter nights, Shadowrun, divinity original sin 2 in terms of rpg mechanics.
 
The RPG elements are present but weak like in Far Cry 5 or Assassins Creed Origins.
Containing some RPG elements does not make a game an RPG.
Some are lose with definitions and call a game like Assassins Creed Origins RPG .

Here we come down to how closely one wants to hold games to a personal definition of "RPG". Opinion.

I don't expect any computer game to be a real RPG. There is simply no way that the game designers can put into a game the response to all of the ideas that a player can come up with. When players role play in a computer game, they have to make sacrifices, whether they realize it or not. What it comes down to is simply the level of restriction, limitation, and "looking the other way" a role player is willing to tolerate in their computer game. Opinion.

On the other hand, creative and innovative players can role play in a lot of games that are not traditionally held to be role playing games. It really depends on what the player needs from the game, and how much the game provides it.

So, while I have never played Far Cry, or Assassin's Creed, I have played Cyberpunk, and Cyberpunk is definitely a CRPG. If you say that those other two games are like Cyberpunk, then I might consider them to be CRPGs, as well. It depends on the limitations that the game places on role playing, not whether or not someone has classified it as a role playing game.

CP2077 should be classified as a role playing game.
 
Here we come down to how closely one wants to hold games to a personal definition of "RPG". Opinion.

I don't expect any computer game to be a real RPG. There is simply no way that the game designers can put into a game the response to all of the ideas that a player can come up with. When players role play in a computer game, they have to make sacrifices, whether they realize it or not. What it comes down to is simply the level of restriction, limitation, and "looking the other way" a role player is willing to tolerate in their computer game. Opinion.

On the other hand, creative and innovative players can role play in a lot of games that are not traditionally held to be role playing games. It really depends on what the player needs from the game, and how much the game provides it.

So, while I have never played Far Cry, or Assassin's Creed, I have played Cyberpunk, and Cyberpunk is definitely a CRPG. If you say that those other two games are like Cyberpunk, then I might consider them to be CRPGs, as well. It depends on the limitations that the game places on role playing, not whether or not someone has classified it as a role playing game.

CP2077 should be classified as a role playing game.
Here we come down to how closely one wants to hold games to a personal definition of "RPG". Opinion.

I don't expect any computer game to be a real RPG. There is simply no way that the game designers can put into a game the response to all of the ideas that a player can come up with. When players role play in a computer game, they have to make sacrifices, whether they realize it or not. What it comes down to is simply the level of restriction, limitation, and "looking the other way" a role player is willing to tolerate in their computer game. Opinion.

On the other hand, creative and innovative players can role play in a lot of games that are not traditionally held to be role playing games. It really depends on what the player needs from the game, and how much the game provides it.

So, while I have never played Far Cry, or Assassin's Creed, I have played Cyberpunk, and Cyberpunk is definitely a CRPG. If you say that those other two games are like Cyberpunk, then I might consider them to be CRPGs, as well. It depends on the limitations that the game places on role playing, not whether or not someone has classified it as a role playing game.

CP2077 should be classified as a computer role playing game.
In Far Cry 5 :
"You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending. "
Very similar with Cyberpunk 2077.
Logic dictates that if Cyberpunk 2077 is RPG then Far Cry 5 is one.

Would you call Far Cry 5 a computer RPG?

I would call games like
Shadowrun
Disco Elysium
Divinity Original Sin 1,2
Gothic 1,2
Pillars of Eternity 1,2
Fallout 1,2, New Vegas
Dragon Age Origins
Diablo 1,2
Kotor 1,2
Vampire Bloodlines
Baldur's Gate 1,2 real computer RPGs.

And games like Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Skyrim are weaker computer RPGs.

Borderlans, Cyberpunk 2077, Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Origins are open world-Action games with light RPG elements.
the distinction between Borderlans, Cyberpunk 2077 and the other two is the first are looter shooters too.
 
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In Far Cry 5 :
"You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending. "
Very similar with Cyberpunk 2077.
Logic dictates that if Cyberpunk 2077 is RPG then Far Cry 5 is one.

Would you call Far Cry 5 a computer RPG?

I would call games like
Shadowrun
Disco Elysium
Divinity Original Sin 1,2
Gothic 1,2
Pillars of Eternity 1,2
Fallout 1,2, New Vegas
Dragon Age Origins
Diablo 1,2
Kotor 1,2
Vampire Bloodlines
Baldur's Gate 1,2 real computer RPGs.

And games like Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Skyrim are weaker computer RPGs.

Borderlans, Cyberpunk 2077, Far Cry 5, Assassins Creed Origins are open world-Action games with light RPG elements.
the distinction between Borderlans, Cyberpunk 2077 and the other two is the first are looter shooters too.

what is it about kotor that makes it more of an rpg than cyberpunk?
 
what is it about kotor that makes it more of an rpg than cyberpunk?
Combat uses a turn-based system. Your character statistics and attributes(and your strategy) make all the difference.
Your reflexes and hand-eye coordination have no say in the outcome.

Multiple-person party

Dialogue options actually made a difference in how some things turned out. You could make storyline decisions that would affect the entire rest of the game
Many of the quests are dialogue-based, and how you respond can make a big difference at times.

Can take two fundamentally different paths. Light vs dark side isn't just being nice or nasty, it really makes a big difference.
 
Combat uses a turn-based system. Your character statistics and attributes(and your strategy) make all the difference.
Your reflexes and hand-eye coordination have no say in the outcome.

Multiple-person party

Dialogue options actually made a difference in how some things turned out. You could make storyline decisions that would affect the entire rest of the game
Many of the quests are dialogue-based, and how you respond can make a big difference at times.

Can take two fundamentally different paths. Light vs dark side isn't just being nice or nasty, it really makes a big difference.

turn based has nothing to do with RPGs, and I don't think kotor was turn based, pretty sure it was active combat with skill queuing.

multi person party has nothing to do with RPGs

dialog options effect this game in many large and small ways, all throughout the game.

There are many dialog based quests in this game.

and the choices V makes regardless of being obviously light or dark, make a big difference.
 
turn based has nothing to do with RPGs, and I don't think kotor was turn based, pretty sure it was active combat with skill queuing.

multi person party has nothing to do with RPGs

dialog options effect this game in many large and small ways, all throughout the game.

There are many dialog based quests in this game.

and the choices V makes regardless of being obviously light or dark, make a big difference.

It is turn based. It simply hides the fact that it is very well. It bases its self off D&D in terms of behind the scene statistic rolls.


Also the point is that your character statistics and attributes(and your strategy) make all the difference not reflexis.
Everybody knows turn based systems is a hallmark of crpg.
Everybody knows attributes and strategy makes the difference and not reflexis is hallmark of crpg.
Everybody knows classic crpg are multi party based. If we look at most of them have this system.


Regarding choices, dialogue trees, quests.
The point Its not about existence its about complexity and prelevence.
The game has rpg elements but they are weak.
The choices, consequences, dialogue influence and dialogue trees are weak.

Do u consider Far Cry 5 RPG?
 
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Would you call Far Cry 5 a computer RPG?
I am a poor person to ask.

You commented above about "serious RPG players". I have watched table top AD&D/D&D games at GenCon where no role playing was going on. We called those game roll playing games, and that is generally the mindset where all computer role playing games fit in. The term CRPG is sort of a derogatory term for a game that wants to be something that it is not. :)

That is why I am a poor person to ask. In order to accept that computer video games can be role playing games, I have already dropped my standards so far down that there is really no point in quibbling over nuances. It isn't whether the computer game is a role playing game. Very few are. The criteria is whether it can be played as a role playing game. It is about the support that the computer game provides to the player for the purpose of role playing.

As for Far Cry 5, again, never played the game. Your list of items is really about story games, so it is hard to tell. Is it anything like The Last of Us?
 
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