Let's rank the new cards!

[fil_faniki]

First off, I love this. The new style of mini-expansions is a great idea!
Aight let's rank the cards in terms of power. Why? Because hopefully the bad ones get buffed and the ones that are too good get reworked.
Post your opinions guys, for me it's from best to worst:

Might need a nerf:
Eist Tuirseach

Strong:
Brouver
Cleaver
Unseen Elder

Good:
Hattori
Eldain
Anna Henrietta

Mediocre:
Crach an Craite
Dettlaff

Not viable:
Emhyr
Whoreson Junior
Foltest
Meve

That's just my opinion from what I've played (I'm trying a renew-defender + Caranthir Unseen Elder pile and it sorta works and it sorta doesnt lul but it's fun) and seen from other players. Please share your lists and opinions, let's discuss this cool mini expansion

 

[Messyr]

I agree with your list about 90%, with the exception of Emhyr and Foltest. Both are definitely Good (or Mediocre).
Meve is not a bad card per se, simply there are better options for the archetype she is supposed to support.
Whoreson Jr. is by far the one that is just not viable in his current state.

 

[Damashiuchi]

Haven't really dug into most of the new ones yet, but I mostly agree with the ones that I have seen where you have them except for Emhry. I think he is great, especially with devotion in a spy-oriented deck (where he obviously belongs!) or just as removal/lock bait until people get a feel for playing around him
I can envision some really annoying swarms with Foltest, though, so I wouldn't rate him as low ... and yes Meve is a bit half-baked

 

[Lokiat0r]

I'm a ST player, so I've really just focused on playing with those cards so far...

I've played with and against Brouver a few times now, and I'd only rate him as "good". His buff is conditional to units having armor and, knowing that, is weak to an opponent who can play 1 or 2 points of damage per round to remove armor from units as they deploy. Plus he encourages row stacking, so that makes dwarves even more susceptible to Yrden than they were before (and Yrden is getting a lot of play lately). I've found too many players get greedy and drop him on the board as the second or third card in the first round hoping to boost all their cards for the rest of the round. That lets your opponent adapt their strategy to counter him. If left for the last or second last card, he'd probably be far more effective...

Eldain might actually be "strong" (definitely a good+). I had limited success with him the first day, but I've tweaked my trap deck strategy a bit and since then he's performed very well.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

My List (a best to worst ranking incl reasoning)

1) Eist
Combined with Jutta + Blaze of Glory + Greatsword. it´s in best cases the following in one turn with one leader charge :
12 Jutta damage + 12 Jutta spawn + 10 Greatsword spawn + 5 Veteran body = 39 value
Risk: Not winning round 1 and bleed in round 2, Facing a NG deck attacking your deck, Being outnumber by strong engine decks in a long round 3.

2) Emhyr
Combined with Thirsty Dames, Sediticious Aristocrats and Impera Enforcers (Ramon) it´s the best engine in the game currently as it brings each card a + 1 each turn. Furtheremore you can seize one unit spying units (not only your own spies but also opponent engine cards)
Risk: Facing a special heavy opponent deck. Not being able to protect your Emhyr or have bad luck with drawing. You need a good amount of Spy/Status givers and Spy/status benefiters. His devotion includes the risk of board overspreading.

3) Cleaver
Intimidate +3 and good spenders offers new ways for crime heavy strategy. Tunnel drill (also a crownsplitter) is an amazing combination. Same for immune Sir Skewertooth.
Risk: When Cleaver is locked/destroyed your engine is seriously hurt.

4) Foltest
If not stopped he can make Blue Strip Commando a nightmare. Also amazing synergies with Dun Banner.
Risk: Probably a challenge in drawing to have an appropriate amount of boosters and your blue Strip Crew. Also you want to play him early to get the most out of him. Your strategy is hurt when he´s locked/destroyed and early your opponent probably has best ways to do so. Also expensive with 12.

5) Unseen Elder
He is a strong bleeding giver and bleeding benefitter the same time.
Risk: Facing NG he can be a huge problem. When NG manages to steal/copy him he is an additional amazing engine for Thirsty Dames. His devotion can have negative impact on Orianna. Facing a veil heavy deck. Can be removed easy (only 5 body) and is very expensive 12,

6) Brouver
Amazing dwarf support as a engine card
Risk: Dwarfes are still difficult to play. To my mind Resilience using wisely is still core for dwarfs. A litttle bit contrary to
Dwarf Berserker as they loose one armour each turn but need it to get the Brouver boost.

7) Eldain
You can make +3 value for each trap. Dependent on your draw and deck: +1 each trap via Isengrim Faoiltiarna, +2 each trap + potential of serious engine removal of opponent via Vernossiel, summon Aelirenn, other elf benefitters like Yaevinn
Risk: Drawing the right cards and winning 2 rounds

8) Crach an Craite
Great synergies with pirate and ships. Potential to attack protected engine cards like Vysogotta.
Risk/Drawback: The whole warrior package is still superior to pirate.

9) Dettlaf
His deploy is a great bleeding enabler.
Drawback: His passive order ability is kind of weak.

10) Anna
Risky card. Potential synergies with assimiliate heavy strategy.
Drawback: Can be a pain if you get a not fitting leader

11) Meve
NR devotion swarm booster. You spend 3 provision to get 7 extra value and devotion in case her boost works.
Risk: Big risk that he boost does not apply (lock, destroyed, destroyed with body over 9 via tall damage, not able to inspire her, play her too late

12) Whoreson Junior
Can be a potential control option and spender
Risk: In best cases he´s a 11 for 10. Currently, there are many SK guys out there. So big risk that he finds no food. Even if he finds he is not that strong comparing price to value

 

[Bleach25]

I agree with @fil_faniki . Emhyr is strong when Spies already shine and bad in a short round. Moreover he needs protection, as any half-decent control deck is going to shut him down pretty fast, making him another Elder Bear. Honestly Spies in general are a dead archetype.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

I avere with @fil_faniki . Emhyr is strong when Spies already shine and bad in a short round. Moreover he needs protection, as any half-decent control deck is going to shut him down pretty fast, making him another Elder Bear. Honestly Spies in general are a dead archetype.

Really do not think so. You only need a defender to protect him. Spies is currently the deck with the most engine-potential.
My deck with Emhyr + Ball + Usurper + Fergus + Spies and spy engine are doing a very good job.

Of course a short round 3 is a challenge for Emhyr. But you can use Userper to create 12 points or maybe have a short round with your masked ball.

 

[Bleach25]

Really do not think so. You only need a defender to protect him. Spies is currently the deck with the most engine-potential.
My deck with Emhyr + Ball + Usurper + Fergus + Spies and spy engine are doing a very good job.

Of course a short round 3 is a challenge for Emhyr. But you can use Userper to create 12 points or maybe have a short round with your masked ball.

Defender is 9 provision, Emhyr is another 11p, that's 20 provisions

Personally I haven't had much luck in my experimentations with Spies with a similar list: if you save all of your best cards for round 3 you win, but if you lose you round 1 then you get bled and it's over. And the problem is exactly that there isn't too much firepower for round one.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Defender is 9 provision, Emhyr is another 11p, that's 20 provisions

Personally I haven't had much luck in my experimentations with Spies with a similar list: if you save all of your best cards for round 3 you win, but if you lose you round 1 then you get bled and it's over. And the problem is exactly that there isn't too much firepower for round one.

Hmmh the nice stuff with my Spy deck (would say win rate of about 55 per cent) is that it tools to win two rounds (one round ball, other round Fergues/Emhyr spy massacre) and many locks. The locks are very useful in the current meta.
Especially Coup de Grace is a very nice card in this deck. One times I faced a vampire deck. Round 3 I had already a protected Emhyr plus many thirst dames. I managed to have two unseen elder in the my protected side which was awesome for my thirsty dames.

Would not argue that´s super strong. My Eist deck is doing better and is less dependent on the match up. But I do not have any other further new deck doing better.

Further remark: In long round 3 I often beated Eist deck.

 

[Bleach25]

Hmmh the nice stuff with my Spy deck (would say win rate of about 55 per cent) is that it tools to win two rounds (one round ball, other round Fergues/Emhyr spy massacre) and many locks. The locks are very useful in the current meta.
Especially Coup de Grace is a very nice card in this deck. One times I faced a vampire deck. Round 3 I had already a protected Emhyr plus many thirst dames. I managed to have two unseen elder in the my protected side which was awesome for my thirsty dames.

Would not argue that´s super strong. My Eist deck is doing better and is less dependent on the match up. But I do not have any other further new deck doing better.

Further remark: In long round 3 I often beated Eist deck.

Ok, I'll try more locks

 

[fil_faniki]

Really do not think so. You only need a defender to protect him. Spies is currently the deck with the most engine-potential.
My deck with Emhyr + Ball + Usurper + Fergus + Spies and spy engine are doing a very good job.

Of course a short round 3 is a challenge for Emhyr. But you can use Userper to create 12 points or maybe have a short round with your masked ball.

Seizing the spies is okay points-wise but it's really not something you want. Filling up the opponent's board with crappy 1s can be powerful. Not to mention the Seditious Aristocrats antisynergy since you're removing spies from the enemy board.
Emhyr is a greedy engine (the weakest type of card) that requires setup and running some suboptimal cards in your deck, IMO he's kinda bad

 

[1990BW]

Unseen Elder 12p - Fair
Detlaff van der Eretein 10p - OK

Emhyr var Emreis - Bad
Anna Henrietta - Bad

King Foltest 12p - Fair
Queen Meve 10p - OK

Eldain 10p - Broken
Brouver Hoog 11p - Fair

Eist Tuirseach 11p - Broken
Crach An Crait - OK

Cleaver 11p - Fair
Whoreon Junior 10p - OK

Below my breakdown of the broken and bad cards:

Broken cards:

Eist Tuirseach / Blaze of Glory
39 points in one turn if you have Jutta in deck and have bloodthirst 2 into discarding Greatsword
This card and perhaps also the leader needs a complete rework because removal is bad for the game.

Eldain
Typically played in no unit decks so there is no interaction possible on the battlefield.
While the traps do all kind of things the opponent can only watch how their units get wiped from the board.
When Eldain is played suddenly your opponent has 20+ points on the board.
There are multiple problems with this archetype in general which makes it very frustrating to play against.
Traps need a rework, Eldain needs a ceiling on how many traps he can convert in to deadeyes and higher provision costs.

Bad cards:

Emhyr var Emreis
The whole conspiracy archetype is a mix of mediocre and bad cards mixed with other archetypes like tactics and assimilate.
For starters the archetype needs a leader ability that supports conspiracy and more supporting cards.
It doesn't need new cards but some existing cards could change for example the 5p assassination tactic could be turned into a 1 point spy which damages a unit on the right by 6 damage (just like the beta card).
Spies should also work behind defenders sabotaging behind enemy lines does support the archetype very good.

Sidenote: Yennefer Invocation and Cadaverine are dumb cards in mirrors who either gains the best value from these typically wins the match.
These cards need a rework as well.

Anna Henrietta
The value of this card varies per matchup it's either good or a waste of provisions in your deck.
So it's not reliable enough to put it in a deck.

 

[Lord-Misplay]

They are good cards. Refreshing to say at least. Maybe the mistake is that all new cards have to be 9p and 11p. If Eist was 12p that would cut another major card from the deck.
I think Anna and Emhyr should be other way around on provisions. 11 for Anna 9 for Emhyr. Anyway. I think there will be a turn to 9ld classics soon. All these new decks are bread and butter for Kelly

 

[quintivarium]

This thread does not specify what we are ranking the cards on. I have chosen to rank them from worst to best on the potential enjoyment they add to the game.


Absolute Worst — this card contributes in multiple ways to making the game not be fun.

Brouver Hoog. Perhaps not overpowered, but this card is easily a passive 5+ point per round engine, and that is far too much. In essence he: 1. Is very binary — either you have substantial removal or you lose 2. Guarantees that other dwarves have to be underpowered to keep the dwarf archetype “balanced”. 3. Supports a very restrictive meta consisting of overpowered engines and overwhelming removal — a type of play I find strategically shallow.


Excessively Powered — none of these cards is really unbalanced, but their excessive power reduces rather than increases the number of potentially competitive decks.

Unseen Elder — a two point per turn engine with a big body and a huge numbers of synergies. Very oppressive.

Emhyr Var Emries — a card that does too much. The ongoing spying gives major synergies, and the seizing can be exploited as well.

Anna Henrietta — a card that is very inconsistent, but the inconsistency has nothing to do strategic decisions by either player, or even randomness in game, but entirely with the matchup. It can never be both fun to play and fun to play against —every game is ruined for at least one player.

Eldain — simply plays for too many points in a dedicated trap deck, not to mention broken synergy with Vernossiel


Exacerbates Other Bad Cards — these cards are not bad in themselves, but interact badly with other cards. I consider neither of these cards to be among the worst, because I believe the real problem is with cards they break.

King Foltest — interaction with blue stripes garbage is insane. The real problem is actually Princess Pavetta who lets this bad combo carry two rounds. Yes, it may be inconsistent, but when it works, it is far too powerful, hence excessively binary when not OP.

Eist Tuirseach — badly overpowered. Again, the problem is not with this card but with its supporting crew — anytime a card is designed to never be used on the board, but to hide in a deck or garage yard and empower other cards, there is a problem (witness Viy). Neither the leader ability Blaze of Glory, nor the card Jutta an Dimun should exist in present form.


Cards With No Impact — these cards make the game neither more nor less fun — for the simple reason that I cannot ever foresee playing them or caring if I play against them. They are simply too conditional, with too little payoff to attempt to meet the conditions.

Queen Mave — interesting mechanics, but too slow and inflexible to bother with when other cards more easily achieve similar effects.

Whoreson Junior — not really a weak card, but the condition for the deploy ability tends to prevent use except when the damage is least meaningful. And the fee ability is sufficiently restrictive that it is unlikely to be used with any frequency.


Enjoyable cards — yes, there are a couple

Cleaver — I have some mixed feelings on this card — it borders on doing two much. It is both a potentially strong engine and a useful spender. But I think the engine value is controlled by challenge in setting the card up and challenge in triggering it, and its value as a spender by the need to spend in multiples of 4. I think this card will prove to be the correct way to introduce a powerful engine into the game — make the power slow to establish and possible to reduce/shut down in multiple ways. Time will tell, but for now I like it.

Crach an Craite — a card with a very unique and interesting power that creates interesting strategic situations. Powerful without being overwhelming.

 

[Bleach25]

This thread does not specify what we are ranking the cards on. I have chosen to rank them from worst to best on the potential enjoyment they add to the game.


Absolute Worst — this card contributes in multiple ways to making the game not be fun.

Brouver Hoog. Perhaps not overpowered, but this card is easily a passive 5+ point per round engine, and that is far too much. In essence he: 1. Is very binary — either you have substantial removal or you lose 2. Guarantees that other dwarves have to be underpowered to keep the dwarf archetype “balanced”. 3. Supports a very restrictive meta consisting of overpowered engines and overwhelming removal — a type of play I find strategically shallow.


Excessively Powered — none of these cards is really unbalanced, but their excessive power reduces rather than increases the number of potentially competitive decks.

Unseen Elder — a two point per turn engine with a big body and a huge numbers of synergies. Very oppressive.

Emhyr Var Emries — a card that does too much. The ongoing spying gives major synergies, and the seizing can be exploited as well.

Anna Henrietta — a card that is very inconsistent, but the inconsistency has nothing to do strategic decisions by either player, or even randomness in game, but entirely with the matchup. It can never be both fun to play and fun to play against —every game is ruined for at least one player.

Eldain — simply plays for too many points in a dedicated trap deck, not to mention broken synergy with Vernossiel


Exacerbates Other Bad Cards — these cards are not bad in themselves, but interact badly with other cards. I consider neither of these cards to be among the worst, because I believe the real problem is with cards they break.

King Foltest — interaction with blue stripes garbage is insane. The real problem is actually Princess Pavetta who lets this bad combo carry two rounds. Yes, it may be inconsistent, but when it works, it is far too powerful, hence excessively binary when not OP.

Eist Tuirseach — badly overpowered. Again, the problem is not with this card but with its supporting crew — anytime a card is designed to never be used on the board, but to hide in a deck or garage yard and empower other cards, there is a problem (witness Viy). Neither the leader ability Blaze of Glory, nor the card Jutta an Dimun should exist in present form.


Cards With No Impact — these cards make the game neither more nor less fun — for the simple reason that I cannot ever foresee playing them or caring if I play against them. They are simply too conditional, with too little payoff to attempt to meet the conditions.

Queen Mave — interesting mechanics, but too slow and inflexible to bother with when other cards more easily achieve similar effects.

Whoreson Junior — not really a weak card, but the condition for the deploy ability tends to prevent use except when the damage is least meaningful. And the fee ability is sufficiently restrictive that it is unlikely to be used with any frequency.


Enjoyable cards — yes, there are a couple

Cleaver — I have some mixed feelings on this card — it borders on doing two much. It is both a potentially strong engine and a useful spender. But I think the engine value is controlled by challenge in setting the card up and challenge in triggering it, and its value as a spender by the need to spend in multiples of 4. I think this card will prove to be the correct way to introduce a powerful engine into the game — make the power slow to establish and possible to reduce/shut down in multiple ways. Time will tell, but for now I like it.

Crach an Craite — a card with a very unique and interesting power that creates interesting strategic situations. Powerful without being overwhelming.

Imho Brouver is fine. He's strong, but he isn't toxic. Not anymore than cleaver, at least

 

[fil_faniki]

They are good cards. Refreshing to say at least. Maybe the mistake is that all new cards have to be 9p and 11p. If Eist was 12p that would cut another major card from the deck.
I think Anna and Emhyr should be other way around on provisions. 11 for Anna 9 for Emhyr. Anyway. I think there will be a turn to 9ld classics soon. All these new decks are bread and butter for Kelly

I think the SY list is here to stay.
I don't know how significant the Carapace nerf is going to be for Kelly but it's there. Maybe it'll run more engines (maybe even Dettlaff or Unseen Elder) in place of Ciri, or maybe it'll keep Ciry because it's that good of a card, we'll see

 

[Bleach25]

Imho Brouver is fine. He's strong, but he isn't toxic. Not anymore than cleaver, at least

Besides, if you consider Cleaver not-toxic because he involves more set-up, then I don't understand your stance against Emhyr, for instance

 

[fil_faniki]

This thread does not specify what we are ranking the cards on. I have chosen to rank them from worst to best on the potential enjoyment they add to the game.

I literally said "let's rank them in terms of power" bro

 

[EduFerraz]

All these new decks are bread and butter for Kelly

Than you pie in your pants and woke up of your dream.

Hahaha

Joke aside, i agree with almost everyone that eist brover and eldain are The Best cards

 

[quintivarium]

I literally said "let's rank them in terms of power" bro

Sorry, I had forgotten your original post. Did not mean to misrepresent or get off topic. Based upon current power from weakest:
Meve
Whoreson Jr
Crach
Dettlaff
Emhyr
Henrietta
Cleaver
Eldain
Elder
Foltest
Brouver
Eist