I can speak for Red Riders and Winter Queen not being clunky at all, it's another thinning combo that you don't want to brick. Make sure you have Ge'els to pull Red Riders and you're fine with it. Ard Gaeth isn't bad at all at 9 provs now tho
I'm not talking general, but more specifically about his build.
It has one Red Riders with Queen. No Ge'els. No Ard Gaeth.
For me this looks like a relatively low thinning payoff (only one way to pull that card, otherwise she is an 8 prov brick), and the Thrive tag is somewhat lackluster in a Vampires build (as the deck lacks too many high units (Conquerors at 7 being the highest base includes that is).
I definitely don't say it cannot work (especially as he got to Pro rank using this build), but I was curious about the actual value this addition brings compared to other potential 8 provision cards.
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Can't say I've had any misplays with Queen, she actually never bricked in any of my matches with this deck. What I've noticed with this Deck is I may not always draw the best hand but I always have a strategy with whatever I drew to carry R1 if I'm strategic about it which frankily is how the game should be instead of the tutor fest that we have now. Often the opponent see's vampires first so they aren't expecting frost and that catches them or vice versa and that works surprisingly well and I can usually capitalize on both. I chose to forgo thrive because in this meta doing damage is far more valuable than boosting, no point doing that against something like Eist for example to just get wiped out or NR that can just tutor Geralt to the board.Having relatively few Thrive options, what was you experience, how much did the Winter Queen / Red Riders combo contribute?
Wasn't it sometimes clunky?
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Arachas Swarm is low Tier1, at worst high Tier2 in the current meta. Viy is (unfortunately) getting back as expected, there were several players in the qualifiers too who brought a Viy deck (Redrame for example). Keltullis works almost as fine since the minor nerf to Carapace (which was, in all honesty, needed to tone down the Ciri interaction).
Gerni thrive is relatively weak right now, Force of Nature does the job better for that archetype.
Blood Scent, as discussed above, is around Tier3 for the moment.
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Ciri Dash was extremely competitive (still is) in Carapace Keltullis. You could say she was... Binary.
As for Ciri dash...MO is crap at control and yea I've lost to it sometimes but even I have been able to counter it and that's without heatwave which everyone has now and everyone has oneiromancy so I fail to see how players would have trouble removing it. Most likely they use oneiro to pull other cards but that's just their bad play. It can't possible be binary because drawing an extra card doesn't automatically mean you lose. Heck SK has been winning for months even when they are down by 1-2 cards and Lippy playing their entire set of Golds twice is just as bad.
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Decided to play my devotion vampires a few last times...
First match, go against Carapace Kelly... Insta forfeit. Second match, i go against a meme NR Alzur deck spamming veil everywhere
(Luckily that was only R1, and on R3 made him forfeit not even halfway with so much blood moon and bleeding)
First match, go against Carapace Kelly... Insta forfeit. Second match, i go against a meme NR Alzur deck spamming veil everywhere
(Luckily that was only R1, and on R3 made him forfeit not even halfway with so much blood moon and bleeding)
lol why auto forfeit against Kelly. I played a match against it today and I lost by 2pts. The player didn't draw it, I always have bruiser on hand so he only took a token but Oneiromancy is what won them the match not strategy and that's the real problem. No risk on their part because of these echo tutors. I don't use tutors but if you do then it's possible to beat it.Decided to play my devotion vampires a few last times...
First match, go against Carapace Kelly... Insta forfeit. Second match, i go against a meme NR Alzur deck spamming veil everywhere
(Luckily that was only R1, and on R3 made him forfeit not even halfway with so much blood moon and bleeding)
When they first introduced the new Wild Hunt frost leader I didn't understand, why the leader ability and Echo card don't ignore armor and shield. Hello, it's the effing White Frost and not some random icestorm... The White Frost that supposedly ends entire worlds, but in Gwent it's stopped by throwing on plate...
And now with the vampire elder cards that support the bleed archetype I again don't get why at least their devotion ability doesn't include "ignore veil". They are ELDER vampires, aeons old, from another dimension or something but their fangs and bleeds are stopped by a veil probably created from goat piss and calendula the pellar mixed together <.< yeah, I don't get it. I don't wanna make veil (or armor/shield) useless, but let's be real, veil got introduced because poison was everywhere, not because vampires pushed us all over the edge. So why doesn't the blood scent leader have a passive ability that bleeds ignore veil, like symbiosis or lined pockets or mahakam forge which have a passive, too, that favor a certain archetype/playstyle (and wild hunt frost ignores shield/armor)?
And now with the vampire elder cards that support the bleed archetype I again don't get why at least their devotion ability doesn't include "ignore veil". They are ELDER vampires, aeons old, from another dimension or something but their fangs and bleeds are stopped by a veil probably created from goat piss and calendula the pellar mixed together <.< yeah, I don't get it. I don't wanna make veil (or armor/shield) useless, but let's be real, veil got introduced because poison was everywhere, not because vampires pushed us all over the edge. So why doesn't the blood scent leader have a passive ability that bleeds ignore veil, like symbiosis or lined pockets or mahakam forge which have a passive, too, that favor a certain archetype/playstyle (and wild hunt frost ignores shield/armor)?
I know right. It makes even less sense that there are SK leaders that can bypass armor yet monster abilities somehow can't lol
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I think i already explained this before, in this very same thread, but i'll do it again:
I actually run a purify and a movement in this devotion deck, so i could counter Kelly. But that doesnt matter, all Kelly players do is a play a few units and boost them to high heavens, while also giving them veil.
That means not only all of my bleed and vampires and blood moon are worthless, but i also have no way of punishing them going tall with pacts and adrenaline rush, MO has absolutely no tall punishment or resets, they only have imlerith's wrath (but im not going tall with vampires) and parasite (good to counter beast, but that's it)
I see. I take it that means you're running blood scent then. If that is the case then I do agree, someone above just suggested vampires should bypass veil. I'm not sure that's the best solution but it definitely needs some more thought. I have beaten Kelly using vampires but not with blood scent so I guess using Carapace myself gives me an advantage in using Imlerith's Wraths. That said, I almost never beat it using removal, it's usually bruiser because I always have two in any MO deck I build. Them boosting their units hardly ever impacts my play because I rely on frost to force them using up charges.
Yea, but that would be as balanced as Eist, getting rid of the largest unit AND getting a gigantic body (basically a much, much stronger version of Ivar Evil Eye).
Yea I don't think that's the answer although...we do still have Ivar and Eist in the game right. I'm kinda over being too careful not to make MO too strong when other factions are getting broken cards every expansion. I'd prefer to get rid of all these overtuned cards but they don't seem to be going anywhere. In any case I'd much prefer something with limits:
Deathwish: Destroy the highest unit on both sides of the board.
Since MO plays tall that would at least require strategic thinking to use in the way that predatory dive does. That way you can't play too tall and you can't play a tall consume unit or you'll risk destroying it.
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I actually like the first change alot, the second one sounds like a vampire tunnel drill or something,
A katakan change would be awesome. I don't feel the card fills any gap in a vampire deck right now. Maybe a change for every 2 or 3 bleeding aplied, spawn an ekkimara on this row. You may keep the deathwish and take out the thrive. It would help make deatlaff deploy more consistent. You can even add a counter for this ability
The unseen elder devotion condition is a complete bait in my opinion since it doesn't give you more points for proccing bleeding sooner. It's like a pseudo finisher to get all your bleeding to proc before the round ends considering he doesn' get answered right away (he will most likely). I would like this card in 11 prov so it plays for his full value with the deploys or maybe make the random applied bleeding pierce veil units and keep his 12 provs or remove the devotion condition and give it to other card like deatlaff and take out his colddown condition
Yea unseen in a blood scent deck without protection is a bit strange. I find success with him IF I run Carapace to boost and protect him, otherwise he's removed next turn and not worth the cost. He needs at least veil
No Ard Gaeth is perfectly reasonable, no Ge'els is a yikes from me.
The usual "package" is Winter Queen, Red Riders/Ard Gaeth, Naglfar.
Now that I think about it though, devotion in MO is REALLY bad right now (probably the worst devotion in the game atm) so the Winter Queen might be a bad idea overall
Actually Ge'els is the one that almost always bricked for me which is why he's not there, whispess offers far more flexibility and control. Besides Ge'els is rather pointless unless I'm running Ard Gaeth which isn't a very good card to begin with so not worth adding. I've never found Naglfar to be particularly useful, maybe if I was playing tall but this decks is designed to do as much damage as possible. I avoid tall removal and minimize yenvo targets. Admittedly in a short round it can be risky but otherwise it's great at keeping my opponents guessing.
Well Naglfar has never been the issue with Ge'els. It may just come down to your style of play. I don't use special tutors because they just don't work for me, I get to pro without them so If anything they are a hindrance to how I play.
Sure, they're really good though you should give them a chance
I was running a MO devotion deck with Vampires & Kelly during this season. It was a real struggle in so many matchups.
So I took away the devotion and kicked Kelly, instead arming myself with a bit of tall punish, such as Heatwave and Spore and I've now managed to rank up from 11 to 10 (today).
I was playing as Vampires (with pure bleed) just before this seasons buff and was really enjoying it, but as I progressed steadily up the ranks, it was proving ineffective in a devotion format especially against meta modelled decks.
I've now settled somewhere between vamps and a bit of WH + Neutrals. The balance feels much better although not sure what more I can do with the deck and I'm aware it's not super strong.
So I took away the devotion and kicked Kelly, instead arming myself with a bit of tall punish, such as Heatwave and Spore and I've now managed to rank up from 11 to 10 (today).
I was playing as Vampires (with pure bleed) just before this seasons buff and was really enjoying it, but as I progressed steadily up the ranks, it was proving ineffective in a devotion format especially against meta modelled decks.
I've now settled somewhere between vamps and a bit of WH + Neutrals. The balance feels much better although not sure what more I can do with the deck and I'm aware it's not super strong.