.

+
Screw all the criticism, Bethesda is the only company that can make a proper open world RPG.
God bless Todd Howard.
Depending on how much and how easy the tools for modding is, CP could be just as good an open world game as Fallout is. But I truly think that the modding community have to make it happen. Because I don't think that CDPR are going to completely overhaul things like we have seen modders do for Fallout or Skyrim and even adding completely new features.

As nice as Fallout/Skyrim is, it would be awesome with a Cyberpunk version as well :)
 
Yes, they make a good open world but nothing in them feels substantive.

So in your opinion watching a TV episode where you can interact with nothing and you have no decisions to make feels substantive? Because that is the "Storytelling" that CDPR goes for.

Things have the value that we assign them. Some people prefer to decide themselves what has value, and some people like being told what they should like and think. I belong in the former group. I prefer open world sandbox.
 
To be honest, if we would live in a universe where I could choose between current CP2077 and a Fallout-esque version, even FO4, I would enjoy the explorative FO aspect more.

In FO i can rp with my character. I have the freedom to play as who I want to play. In current CP I only can rp as female street kid V, because that's how the character was written.

CP won't let me rp as anything else, play as anything else. I cannot side with a faction during the game or create my own stuff. Just imagine CP with a system to create your own gang/faction. Where you could overtake some territories and deal with the other factions.

Yes, both games have a McGuffin to follow and achieve, but in FO4 I can play around it, if that's it what I enjoy.

With V, I cannot even play or end the game as my personal V.
 
CP won't let me rp as anything else, play as anything else. I cannot side with a faction during the game or create my own stuff. Just imagine CP with a system to create your own gang/faction. Where you could overtake some territories and deal with the other factions.
Wait and see ;)
Maybe a full extension will be release for that, maybe named "Gangs War".
That sound great, no ? :D
 
in CP so far I have played a MOX (based on harley), a corpo spy, an ex-millitech soldier (rifles), A Nomad tinkerer, An Arasaka Samurai, A whizzkid hacker terrorist and a rocker so far... I pity those stuck with streetkid, corpo or nomad when all they really are is a base, fallout 4 only has the one possible start

in Fallout 4 I have played most of fudgemuppets builds (albeit with some tinkering)

In both games I pick my path and choices to match my character and I always finish when the main story ends. I pick and choose quests relevant to my character and dress and react appropriately.

CP2077 has given me the most varied and best endings (though I haven't seen them all yet, one ending per playthrough and has to be appropriate)

There is a hell of a lot less grinding in CP2077 and I think CDPR did well to avoid any sort of faction grind which are just lazy tbh.. Radiant quests are lazy, FO4 just cannot compete in the sheer variety.

1618576605848.png
 
In FO i can rp with my character. I have the freedom to play as who I want to play. In current CP I only can rp as female street kid V, because that's how the character was written.

I've heard people say this and, honestly, I don't understand it.

I've never had an RPG experience--outside of table-top, that is--where I felt like I was playing my character my way. Not once.

  • Dialogue options are always summaries, and rarely describe the character's attitude/delivery. This is an over-simplified example, but when the player is asked a Yes/No question by an NPC and you select 'No', it's a total crapshoot whether it'll be 'No, thank you,' or, 'Hell, no!'
  • NPCs have the memory of a goldfish, and your past actions only have an effect if they're plot-important.
  • NPCs live in their own AI bubble; you could go out and completely murder their entire family, but they won't notice or care, sometimes even if you do it right in front of them.
  • The dialogue option I'd choose is often just plain not there. Choice is almost entirely an illusion.
  • Etc.
Until we develop a semi-sentient AI with long-term memory, there will never be a true RPG.
And, frankly, except for there often being only two options in CP2077, I genuinely don't see the difference at all when it comes to NPC interaction.

CP won't let me rp as anything else, play as anything else. I cannot side with a faction during the game or create my own stuff. Just imagine CP with a system to create your own gang/faction. Where you could overtake some territories and deal with the other factions.

That'd be nice, but how does it fit with the plot of CP2077?

V has a Johnny Chip and is slowly dying and the Arasaka family is having a wee bit of a spat; where would factions fit into this? Aside from being an extra tidbit of gameplay, how is the plot served by this?

I will admit, it seems kind of stupid that V can indiscriminately kill off members of a gang and every other member of the gang doesn't really care very much; you'd think V's rep for murdering them might make a gang a little grumpy. I even killed a bunch of Voodoo Boys right in front of their hideout before going in to take a mission. Nobody cared.
 
To be honest, if we would live in a universe where I could choose between current CP2077 and a Fallout-esque version, even FO4, I would enjoy the explorative FO aspect more.

In FO i can rp with my character. I have the freedom to play as who I want to play. In current CP I only can rp as female street kid V, because that's how the character was written.

CP won't let me rp as anything else, play as anything else. I cannot side with a faction during the game or create my own stuff. Just imagine CP with a system to create your own gang/faction. Where you could overtake some territories and deal with the other factions.

Yes, both games have a McGuffin to follow and achieve, but in FO4 I can play around it, if that's it what I enjoy.

With V, I cannot even play or end the game as my personal V.
V is a merc so it would be strange to side with a faction.
 
I guess that would depend on how much they paid. Both Smasher and Rogue sold out

 
<clipped URL>
Yes. Merc. Smasher was a merc until he got a better offer from Arasaka (full conversion). Rogue was also a Merc until she too got a better offer from Arasaka. No idea what her price was, but my best guess would be for her to continue living. Also, in CP2020 and CP203X (P&P game) many mercs would work exclusively for various 'factions', corp, clan, gang, etc. Fixers in the P&P game, even though they were a playable archetype, were mostly there for the GM to drive the plot of what ever story they had cooked up.

Just because you're a Merc, does NOT mean you use a Fixer.
 
I guess Fallout 4 is my record for shortest gameplay, but everybody has different tastes.
View attachment 11210413
Well, I have over 6,2K hours played in this game.
Post automatically merged:

I've heard people say this and, honestly, I don't understand it.

I've never had an RPG experience--outside of table-top, that is--where I felt like I was playing my character my way. Not once.

  • Dialogue options are always summaries, and rarely describe the character's attitude/delivery. This is an over-simplified example, but when the player is asked a Yes/No question by an NPC and you select 'No', it's a total crapshoot whether it'll be 'No, thank you,' or, 'Hell, no!'
  • NPCs have the memory of a goldfish, and your past actions only have an effect if they're plot-important.
  • NPCs live in their own AI bubble; you could go out and completely murder their entire family, but they won't notice or care, sometimes even if you do it right in front of them.
  • The dialogue option I'd choose is often just plain not there. Choice is almost entirely an illusion.
  • Etc.
Until we develop a semi-sentient AI with long-term memory, there will never be a true RPG.
And, frankly, except for there often being only two options in CP2077, I genuinely don't see the difference at all when it comes to NPC interaction.



That'd be nice, but how does it fit with the plot of CP2077?

V has a Johnny Chip and is slowly dying and the Arasaka family is having a wee bit of a spat; where would factions fit into this? Aside from being an extra tidbit of gameplay, how is the plot served by this?

I will admit, it seems kind of stupid that V can indiscriminately kill off members of a gang and every other member of the gang doesn't really care very much; you'd think V's rep for murdering them might make a gang a little grumpy. I even killed a bunch of Voodoo Boys right in front of their hideout before going in to take a mission. Nobody cared.

When I did the 6'th Street-gang's mission "Stadium Love", one became close to hostile at the beginning of the quest, as he was beginning to remember V gunning down gang-members. When V was going to tally up the score after shooting the targets, he remember how V had killed a bunch of them, and they all became hostile.
 

Attachments

  • Bilde_2021-04-16_220655.png
    Bilde_2021-04-16_220655.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 57
Last edited:
How so? In real life its quite common to focus on one employer even if you are in theory freelance.
Yeah, but V is supposed to take jobs from various fixers to make money. If you side with the Tyger claws, for example, you will not take jobs that can harm them, that makes things a way too complicated for the scope of the game.
 
Ohoh, we are comparing those games, let me chime in :D

Because I have 2k hrs in Fallout 4 and (I dont know how) many in Skyrim aswell. I enjoy Cyberpunk a lot.

In terms of character creation, Skyrim was absolutely the better. The only thing known about your character is that they crossed the border and got caught(unless you use alternative start). Everything from looks, preferences(includes sexual), stances are all decided by the player. As such I have played character that were good and noble while I also played characters that were absolutely evil. I think the most fun character I had was a psychotic sorceress for which every decision(Do kill this npc or not? Do I join the Brotherhood or not?) was decided by a coin toss.
Skyrim gives you a blank slate that you can do with as you please while the dialogue is overall very neutral. There is no voiced protagonist to ruin that. It actually surprised me how fun it was to play an arrogant xenophobic egotistic Telvanni bitch.

In Fallout 4 and Cyberpunk you are always Nora/Nate or V and you will have to settle with that. Prdefined characters are always interesting the first time as you try to discover what they are about, but when you replay you usually start to notice details that you wish you didnt. Like how V is rather naieve about the world around her/him even when V has spend their entire life in Night City. Half the time Johnny goes 'I thaught you'd never figure it out' or other 'you know nothing V' style replies. I didnt really like that if I'm honest. The fact that V often has dialogue choices that sound rather naive and gullible doesnt help.
Fo4's Nora comes out of a vault and doesnt know what happened to the world so you can accept the sometimes uninformed replies of that character. Though Fo4's dialogue was rather bad; four words that describe a reaction, but might be completely different to what you expected. Glad they abandoned that kind of dialogue. The other problem with Fallout 4 is that you play a good character and then go to Nukaworld where you are expected to be a bad person. That only works if your character is a blank slate

Story wise F4 has the issue that it tries to make you do things as quickly as possible but doesnt really succeed at it. Go find Shaun but you could just wander off into the wild and explore. Kellog is a pushover when you meet him at level 30 because he doesnt scale up and is designed to be your antagonist at level 15. Cyberpunk did kind of nudge me into doing the main quest initially until I started wandering off.
To be fair, I dont mind it. I dislike timed quests like the police neighbour quest in Cyberpunk 2077. You go out into the city and get caught up in some other gigs, forget about andrew and the quest fails. Meh!

What Fallout 4 does well is give you the option to side with one of the different faction and thus give you a high degree of replayability; minutemen today, Brotherhood tomorrow and at the end the Lone Wanderer lives happily ever after. Whereas Cyberpunk 2077 only gives you one storyline, only the endings differ somewhat and none actually ends well for V(one ending might be a good one if we take what the NPCs say literally).
I was told that Cyberpunk was supposed to have 3 different story arcs; one where V has Johnny, one where Jackie has the Johnny and one where the chip remains unused and you try tro sell it off. So unfortunate that that didnt materialize.

The whole debate about NPCs is an old one that will never go anywhere. You cant have a city with thousands of NPCs and expect dialogue for all or even most of them. Bethesda makes smaller cities but 9/10 NPCs in them have dialogue. In Skyrim 9/10 had a quest for you. Its one or the other, you cant have both. I'm okay with the way CDPR did it in Night city. Do you, in real life, go to the city and randomly talk to everyone? And if you did would they talk to you or walk away while staring at you?

Fallout 4 has good AI(and I was told they got help from Halo devs), you can make a settlement and the settlers will behave fairly realistically(for as much as that is possible in a game like that). They go to sleep, do their different daily jobs and if you built a living room or a bar they'll go there in the evening. The combat of the AI in Fallout 4 is also pretty good, one wonders how they managed to lose that AI scripting when they started to work on Fallout 76.

What Cyberpunk does absolutely best out of all these is the locations you fight at. Skyrim has tunnel dungeons, long corridors that conveniently end at the entrance. It has quite a few of those. You still see that in Fallout 4 while in Cyberpunk you arent going into artificial locations, the compounds and buildings you enter to do gigs are always realistically built. backdoors and frontdoors, windows and fences with restrooms, offices and other rooms logically placed. With NPCs going about a daily routine instead of being planted in such way that the player always to deal with them.
In Cyberpunk I never feel like I'm entering a tunnel dungeon, but rather a 'real' location. Noone ever mentions this and it really should be. Cyberpunk is absolutely superior in this regard.

I like random activities like fishing, awesome addition to make the game feel more lifelike. I wish Cyberpunk has such activties. Somewhere I'm hoping they'll make it possible for V to take over a place like Jotero's and turn it into their own club. Well, there are plenty of other features that I'd like that would require an additional dev team to be hired :D

Overall both have their strengths and weaknesses. I personally find it hard to choose.
 
I did enjoy fallout 4 more than cyberpunk but did you just state that Bethesda are the best at making RPGs?!
The best game in the franchise itself isn't even made by them. smh my head.
To each their own I guess.
 
I didn't. There's no Fallout soul in this game, this ended defy with Fallout 76.
It's good game but that's it. Downhill of franchise.
They wanted to mix F3 and FNV, and it was bland, exploration and worldbuliding was not as good as in F3, storywise it was worse than F:NV.
Best Fallout is still Fallout 1.
This thing about soul: fallouts were pretty cheeky but also a little bitter, criticized amercian culture,antiwar.
Fallout 4 was step into direction of F76: lets nuke people for fun.
 
Screw all the criticism, Bethesda is the only company that can make a proper open world RPG.
God bless Todd Howard.

Yeah, I was very sour on Fallout 4 when I played it because I felt like it was a step backwards from New Vegas and Fallout 3, but the NPC interaction and the sandbox world have REALLY stood the test of time. There haven't been very many open world games that have matched it's level of interactivity and simulation.

If it was easy then I figure a lot more studios would have copied their sandbox formula and surpassed them by now.

Critics will point to it's story, but that's sort of a deflection since story telling was never Bethesda's strong suit. It really is a shame how today a vocal minority or people who aren't actually fans of the genre can create a BS narrative around Bethesda games and it drown out real fans.

YES, Cyberpunk 2077 had a better story, better combat, better dialogue, better mission structure, etc. etc.., but the open world wasn't nearly as immersive. I'm not even talking about bugs at all. I'm just talking about the interactivity options and how the sandbox plays out.
 
Last edited:
YES, Cyberpunk 2077 had a better story, better combat, better dialogue, better mission structure, etc. etc.., but the open world wasn't nearly as immersive. I'm not even talking about bugs at all. I'm just talking about the interactivity options and how the sandbox plays out.
That is one of the biggest issues with CP, you get all exciting with all the things you are going to do in this amazing city, only to find out that you are really not, it's such a shame :(

Fallout obviously have the benefit that the game setting is a wasteland, so you don't expect all kinds of random things happening in the game world. It has the benefit of interesting monsters etc. It's far from perfect, but it's pretty damn good I think, especially when you mod it. Still think that the quest from Sim settlements is one of the best ones I have tried in Fallout 4, it's like a mini main story :D
 
in CP so far I have played a MOX (based on harley), a corpo spy, an ex-millitech soldier (rifles), A Nomad tinkerer, An Arasaka Samurai, A whizzkid hacker terrorist and a rocker so far... I pity those stuck with streetkid, corpo or nomad when all they really are is a base, fallout 4 only has the one possible start

in Fallout 4 I have played most of fudgemuppets builds (albeit with some tinkering)

In both games I pick my path and choices to match my character and I always finish when the main story ends. I pick and choose quests relevant to my character and dress and react appropriately.

CP2077 has given me the most varied and best endings (though I haven't seen them all yet, one ending per playthrough and has to be appropriate)

There is a hell of a lot less grinding in CP2077 and I think CDPR did well to avoid any sort of faction grind which are just lazy tbh.. Radiant quests are lazy, FO4 just cannot compete in the sheer variety.

View attachment 11210590

I enjoyed Fallout 4 a bit more than Fallout 3/Fallout New Vegas (both around 1200 hours each) due to better graphics, the settlement-functions, how you mod weapons, combat and not least - how they did power-armor the right way (a drive-able suit, not clothing). I use the F4SE to apply necessary mods (blueprints), and I play only in Survival-mode because it gives a decent challenge.

1621472634133.jpeg
 

Guest 4564903

Guest
I like both games, play them for what they are, don't compare them and have huge amounts of fun in both.
 
Top Bottom