Uggh. So this is improved? [NPC Clones]

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According many, myslef included, that received perfectly playable framerates and stable performance right from the beginning.
Okay, but your personal experience doesn't magically equate with the engine being robust or finished. If the engine doesn't function properly in certain situations or environments, it is not robust. I am going to repeat this point several times because it is fundamental to the argument.

That's the same engine that was used up to 1.2. The engine didn't change.
What are you trying to say here? Of course it was the same engine. But it was clearly released with critical flaws, which needed to be addressed in subsequent patches.

That's what I'm referring to by robust. It's not a reference to gameplay mechanics, it's a reference to the graphical engine.
We're not talking about the rendering pipeline. Check the original comment you replied to. This is about the game engine as a whole.

Even if we were only talking about the graphical capabilities of the engine, the visual fidelity has zero relation to it being robust. Capable? Sure. Robust? Nope.

then the issue is not that the the engine is not robust
Yes it is. Crashing means not robust. Game breaking bugs means not robust.

In the context of software development, "robust" means to be able to function under a variety of conditions. If the engine is shitting the bed on consoles or crashing on low-end PCs (or even high-end PCs), it is not robust, by definition. Period.

Meanwhile, optimization in software development usually refers to performance optimization, which is generally effected through better utilization of hardware. Poor optimization can lead to more bugs or crashes, sure, but bugs and crashes can exist in their own right and may require fixes that don't involve hardware-level logic. In other words, they can be indicators that the engine is not robust, or even unfinished.

Now, as to whether this is enough to declare the engine unfinished on release: I would argue, yes it does. If for no other reason because of the dire situation with consoles that continued for several months. As I alluded to in my previous comment, the closest we can get to a formal definition of "finished" is the software development concept of "definition of done." And, once again, I would be surprised if even CDPR would have internally declared the engine as meeting a reasonable definition of done. I certainly doubt that many customers playing on consoles would have accepted it as such.

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i7-4790K, 16 GB RAM, and a GTX 980 ti. Was able to play from day one at between 45-56 FPS at full Ultra, 1080p.)

That's around 15-20fps (25-45%) more than any gameplay footage of CP77 running on a 980ti i could find online. You must've won the silicon lottery.
 
very likely ..... :\
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take two, now with less efforts

clones in the original material lore were paramount and they're now nowhere to be seen in the game's lore,
clones in the videogame are now worse (MUCH more frequent) but what isn't worse with every patch in this game ?!
 
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While I do agree with the general sentiment behind the post, I do believe you're misrepresenting what immersion means to many.

Immersion is very subjective, I personally found immersion in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (very little to no interaction with the environment) in droves, like nothing else before or after it until Cyberpunk 2077.

It's the atmosphere and the cohesiveness portrayed in its creativity and art style which includes visual, narrative, sound, gameplay, perspective and everything else that thoroughly portrays the design decisions behind the game world/universe.

But it also means that this painstakingly created atmosphere that in turn emits the feeling of immersion can be broken by the lack of detail in certain aspects that may or may not be easy to overlook for some people hence the thread in question.

Bottom line is, we are playing a video game, there's a certain suspension of disbelief required to fully enjoy what's presented to us, but it's not an excuse for the shortcomings, just like the shortcomings don't take away the good and the great it already achieves.

You are completely right as to say that immersion is subjective, and yes it boils down to personal taste. And of course, we all know that its just a video game, and some suspension of disbelief is required.

Suspending disbelief to ignore the amount of inhalers V carries is one thing, but seeing NPC's reacting in a very non-realistic way is another, as the latter is in ones face and is difficult to ignore.

I think that the sheer amount of people who want to do more things in NC, and want CP77 to be "more immersive" shows two things; one, many people do not consider CP77 to be very immersive, and two, people still want it to be immersive, ie, they still want to play or come back. And I don't think either of those are inherently a bad thing.
 

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I think that the sheer amount of people who want to do more things in NC, and want CP77 to be "more immersive" shows two things; one, many people do not consider CP77 to be very immersive, and two, people still want it to be immersive, ie, they still want to play or come back. And I don't think either of those are inherently a bad thing.
Then the problem seems to be in people are using "immersive" and "interactive" interchangeably.
 
You are completely right as to say that immersion is subjective, and yes it boils down to personal taste. And of course, we all know that its just a video game, and some suspension of disbelief is required.

Suspending disbelief to ignore the amount of inhalers V carries is one thing, but seeing NPC's reacting in a very non-realistic way is another, as the latter is in ones face and is difficult to ignore.

I think that the sheer amount of people who want to do more things in NC, and want CP77 to be "more immersive" shows two things; one, many people do not consider CP77 to be very immersive, and two, people still want it to be immersive, ie, they still want to play or come back. And I don't think either of those are inherently a bad thing.

Fully agreed, but considering that the game sold a lot to a lot of different people (deceitfully some may say) from a lot of different backgrounds, I'd like to point out that the loudest of the complaints are not at all about immersion per say, but more about the different interactions people expect based on their own personal background in their gaming habits (some expect things from GTA, some expect things from Bethesda open worlds et al) masquerading as this blanket statement called immersion which is not at all what it means.

I wouldn't call a game like Super Mario immersive, but damned if I wasn't immersed in it when I was a kid.

Cyberpunk doesn't lack in immersion, it lacks in interactivity with the environment which affects immersion, but if you focus on the aspects the game sets out to accomplish there's plenty of immersion to be found in it right until any of the technical issues pop up like the ones presented in this thread and for me personally so far since I started my new playthrough, Jackie walking through objects and doing a weird slav dance trying to crouch and walk at the same time :D.
 
Then the problem seems to be in people are using "immersive" and "interactive" interchangeably.

Both can go hand in hand. If a car wasn't interactive in a driving game, it would be very non immersive.

NC has so much potential, yet there is painfully very little to do in an entire city! When older games built for older hardware can offer more to do outside of quests/missions, then its some what of an issue I'd say, and so do a lot of other people.

Again, I get you may like/love the game, bout would it not be awesome to head down to the Afterlife and hit up some drinks then play a non-Gwent card game or similar?
 
Again, I get you may like/love the game, bout would it not be awesome to head down to the Afterlife and hit up some drinks then play a non-Gwent card game or similar?
I could say yes :)
Although in most games that offering that, more often than not I only do it once "to see" (like in RDR2, I only play poker once and it is just to replace the other drunkard).
 
clones immersion topic, all lovely words
imagine if you'd have seen an NPC with your face plate while walking through NC :D
I like the idea. It wouldn't need to be explained but left as a mystery for people to create their own ideas as to how it made them feel..so long as it works for the plot of the story.
 
Here is a video showing many clones in a crowded area. This is a big issue because you can see that there are many clones, but not all NPCs are getting cloned. I am not using any mod that change crowds in this video.
Sorry about the keyboard sounds, I forgot to turn off my webcam and it recorded the sounds.


I have tried several thing to have less clones but nothing worked. I have tried lowering crowd density and I have tried 2 different versions of this mod. I still had many clones
 
This is an older thread but sadly still actual: here on my PC the duplicate NPC bug only got worse with 1.23 and even more worse after 1.30 now :(
I even uninstalled the game, including all the save files. Did a complete download and fresh install but still: 2 to 6 duplicate NPC's around in a lot of areas.
And this right from the start: first time walking in Megabuilding H10, the robot fight: 6 or 7 duplicate NPCs doing their stuff.
Or in and around Lizzy's: literary everywhere I look are duplicates.
 
Ha, indeed some clone wars yes.
Here some screenshots now with V 1.3 and new game and saves. And it is really way worse now: just visited the Afterlife for the first time and even there it's filled with duplicates. Never had that before. One NPC was 8 times around and 1 booth with 4 NPC were 2 x 2 NPC's.
It's not funny anymore ....

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Ha, indeed some clone wars yes.
Here some screenshots now with V 1.3 and new game and saves. And it is really way worse now: just visited the Afterlife for the first time and even there it's filled with duplicates. Never had that before. One NPC was 8 times around and 1 booth with 4 NPC were 2 x 2 NPC's.
It's not funny anymore ....

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Yeah when I first went to the afterlife on new save that table of 4 were quadruplets.
 
Well, reverted back to version 1.22 and that is SO much better. Still duplicates but they are more spread out. Like in Lizzie's, they are still there but there are more NPC's, so more diversity and duplicates don't stand out.
 
It's a subtle reference to the iconic scene from TW3:



It happens on occasion, but not very often from what I could see. They've supposedly introduced more variations of NPC models to decrease the likelihood of clones being spawned at the same place, but I doubt it's something that can be completely eradicated. It comes down to good and bad luck.

funfact: it was a cinematic (when you go to novigrad market plaza for the first time) so they can easily fix it as it was precisely scripted, but they won't and leaved this punch in the eye no matter what
 

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funfact: it was a cinematic (when you go to novigrad market plaza for the first time) so they can easily fix it as it was precisely scripted, but they won't and leaved this punch in the eye no matter what
What's even funnier is that the crowd was watching a doppler burning at the stake and one of these clones was shameless enough to shout: "Look, a doppler!" :D
In all seriousness, I see it as just a silly oversight, I was never too upset with it.
Ciri's knife wiggling during "Geralt finds Ciri" scene was also silly and easy to notice and has never been fixed.
 
What's even funnier is that the crowd was watching a doppler burning at the stake and one of these clones was shameless enough to shout: "Look, a doppler!" :D
In all seriousness, I see it as just a silly oversight, I was never too upset with it.
Ciri's knife wiggling during "Geralt finds Ciri" scene was also silly and easy to notice and has never been fixed.

now that you mention it, they might actually have done it on purpose XD
 
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