Lets appreciate the star of the show

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If you're talking about NCPD scanner hustles, they do have stories to them told through the environmental storytelling and area changes after clearing them of enemies.
Did you miss the part where I pointed out how much exploration I had done? I am aware. Some dispatches are more elaborate and had more effort put into them. However, many don't. A group of generic thugs standing around a backpack with a shard in it that you kill in 5 seconds is no different than a random encounter, from a gameplay perspective. Especially for the ones that then respawn, but without the shard.

That's because I have no idea what the dungeons (or dragons) have to do with the game set in futuristic world.
A dungeon is just a closed-off area where a player will encounter hostile enemies. Has nothing to do with fantasy or dragons, lol.

This game has maybe one (non main-story) area that I would consider dungeon-like, and it's right near the beginning of the game. My guess is, CDPR just ran out of time to put the same level of effort into the rest of the game.
 

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A group of generic thugs standing around a backpack with a shard in it that you kill in 5 seconds is no different than a random encounter, from a gameplay perspective. Especially for the ones that then respawn, but without the shard.
And if they change after me finishing it, it is still an improvement over enemies respawning at the same place every day like it's the Groundhog Day.
If those encounters have any story to them, it is still more interesting than a random encounter that adds nothing.
My guess is, CDPR just ran out of time to put the same level of effort into the rest of the game.
My guess is that CDPR doesn't value procedurally generated content as much as you. They didn't have it in TW3 (or its predecessors), they don't have it now. Seeing their opinion on radiant quests, you can get pretty the clear idea of where they stand on random, repeatable encounters.

Every quest in the game is handcrafted. For us, quality is always more important than quantity, and we just couldn’t deliver this quality with modules we assemble in different ways to create these random quests. We don’t just want to keep people busy, but actually give them something to do that’s worth their while.

But we’re making a big Open World RPG of course, so that also means that despite our quests being handcrafted, we tried to make a whole lot of them, so players can have fun in the game for many hours.
 
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I'm not sure how you got confused. There has been a very clear line of discussion up till now, and it seemed like you were keeping up. Then suddenly you aren't.
So why am I confused.

To take a very, very simplistic example:
- A house (the open world, the map, Night City, the star of the shaw)
- Interior design, furniture (all activities, quests, interactivity, npc, traffic...)
Basically I have the impression that for a lot of players, if in a house there isn't a big TV, a sofa, an American fridge and all the modern furnishings, the house is bad. While for me, indeed no.
I especially quote RDR2, because I really love the map (and the story), but for me, the gameplay, the gunfights and all the contents are really bad (I still replay it, because the map is really beautiful).

In short, in my opinion, there is no relation between the map itself and the content that is there.

From the start of the thread, I've been saying that no matter if there is activities/interactivity/dungeons/whatever or not, Night City still so gorgeous and deserve to be "The star of the show".
 
It seems that most people agree that Night City is a beautiful simulation, but on closer inspection it doesn't hold water. It's too bad they didn't go for a hub system. It's much easier to tweak and maintain independent modules. The open world trend has been on lifesupport for a while anyway, simply because gamers are tired of open world games with plenty of space, but with nothing to do. It works for franchises like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout because of the setting, but not for a massive futuristic city.

What's up with the population density? The technology just isn't there yet.
 
It seems that most people agree that Night City is a beautiful simulation, but on closer inspection it doesn't hold water. It's too bad they didn't go for a hub system. It's much easier to tweak and maintain independent modules. The open world trend has been on lifesupport for a while anyway, simply because gamers are tired of open world games with plenty of space, but with nothing to do. It works for franchises like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout because of the setting, but not for a massive futuristic city.

What's up with the population density? The technology just isn't there yet.
Cyberpunk is ahead of its time. It needed technologies like direct storage and the kind of advancements in progress with UE5. CDPR trying to roll their own engine, probably on decade-old tech, was doomed to fail.

Basically I have the impression that for a lot of players, if in a house there isn't a big TV, a sofa, an American fridge and all the modern furnishings, the house is bad. While for me, indeed no.
Sadly, missing the point. I'm arguing here that less IS more. CDPR should have focused on the strengths of their narrative instead of throwing in everything but the kitchen sink in the form of an over-bloated and unnecessary open world.

In short, in my opinion, there is no relation between the map itself and the content that is there.
A map isn't gameplay, at least not in a narrative-driven action RPG. Unigine Valley isn't a game.

Night City still so gorgeous and deserve to be "The star of the show".
We all agree the city is gorgeous, but the question is where is the gameplay. CP77 isn't a walking simulator any more than it is an RPG or the next GTA.

My guess is that CDPR doesn't value procedurally generated content as much as you.
Then that's pretty funny, because a lot of the content in the game is indistinguishable in quality
from generic, procedurally generated content, except for the fact that it is static and hard-coded.

I don't think CDPR values crafted content as much as they say they do, or understand open world content as much as they'd like to think.

And if they change after me finishing it, it is still an improvement over enemies respawning
In many cases the enemies DO respawn, but without the elements that made the initial encounter unique. That's the kind of thing people are complaining about. The result is content that is WORSE than procedural generation because it is completely static AND generic.

We don’t just want to keep people busy
Ironic, because that's what the NCPD dispatches end up being. Empty busywork.
 

Guest 3847602

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Then that's pretty funny, because a lot of the content in the game is indistinguishable in quality
Only if you're not interested in reading shards and emails. That's what gives them context and makes them different from each other. :shrug:
I don't think CDPR values crafted content as much as they say they do, or understand open world content as much as they'd like to think.
I think they do, because they don't pollute their games with radiant quests.
In many cases the enemies DO respawn, but without the elements that made the initial encounter unique. That's the kind of thing people are complaining about. The result is content that is WORSE than procedural generation because it is completely static AND generic.
Can you give me examples of where does this happen? All I've seen in Cyberpunk 2077 is:
- area stays deserted
- area is repopulated with civilians
- area is repopulated with NCPD investigating the place and taking body bags
- are is repopulated with the same group as before, but the scene and the context is different (like in the video I linked)
If this is true and the exact same scenario is recreated in few cases, then yes, it is a problem. One that should be solved by making these areas looking different than before, not by making this mistake the universal rule for every other NCPD scanner hustle.
 
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Can you give me examples of where does this happen? All I've seen in Cyberpunk 2077 is:
- area stays deserted
- area is repopulated with civilians
- area is repopulated with NCPD investigating the place and taking body bags
- are is repopulated with the same group as before, but the scene and the context is different (like in the video I linked)
If this is true and the exact same scenario is recreated in few cases, then yes, it is a problem. One that should be solved by making these areas looking different than before, not by making this mistake the universal rule for every other NCPD scanner hustle.
I think, "DO respawn", is about the random 3-4 enemies who you can encouter at certain spot or NCPD events (with star icon).
In all NCPD scanner hustles or GIGs, the enemies never, never, never respawn :D
 
Only if you're not interested in reading shards and emails. That's what gives them context and makes them different from each other.
I don't see how that is different than radiant quests or just assigning a random shard to each encounter. One thing's for sure, calling it "hand crafted" is laughable.

Can you give me examples of where does this happen?
No. I've uninstalled the game and I haven't played in months.

I do recall the organized crime locations being repopulated. But I distinctly remember several assaults in progress respawning with generic enemies after I cleared them.

Not respawning would be fine if everything wasn't populated and marked from the start of the game. Having the hustles appear organically over time or at certain street cred levels would have done a lot to make the city feel more dynamic and alive. As it is, the city becomes increasingly dead and barren the longer you play, which is trash for an open world experience.

CDPR just chose the laziest solution possible. Filler encounters only distinguished by text that would take like 5 minutes to write per, plus everything just vomited out onto the map right from the start. The amount of wasted potential is tragic.
 
I do recall the organized crime locations being repopulated. But I distinctly remember several assaults in progress respawning with generic enemies after I cleared them.
You recall bad, since day one, enemies in the NCPD scanner hustles never respawn at all (in all Cyberpunk version since day one).
The only ones that respawn are the groups of 3 enemies at specific places (corner of a street, in front of a bar, near the Coyote Cojo where you can "farm" them...)

CDPR just chose the laziest solution possible. Filler encounters only distinguished by text that would take like 5 minutes to write per, plus everything just vomited out onto the map right from the start. The amount of wasted potential is tragic.
No worse than freeing a prison guy from a trap, guy getting attacked by a wolf or break the chains of a prison escapee in RDR2.
No worse than just emptying a chest and killing 2/3 sharks in AC Odyssey.
At least, in Cyberpunk there is a little story and often related to another GIGs/Quests. If you don't want to read the shard, as you wish :)
 
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I don't see how that is different than radiant quests or just assigning a random shard to each encounter.
If that random shards keep popping up at other places it means you're experiencing the exact same event over and over again. Which is something that even the lowest-quality content in Cyberpunk 2077 (Assault in Progress) manages to avoid.
Radiant quests, respawning enemies and them repopulating the same areas is not only lazy and boring, but also destroys the notion of my actions having impact on the game world.
 
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Buildings positioned in ways causing windows to merge half way into fasades of other buildings.
True, noticed that as well sometimes. Night City is gargantual, has great atmosphere, great art direction, but sometimes it's plain ugly from technical point of view. I have to add though, that I noticed such ugly fasade "connections" in some other games too. Probably a common issue with designing huge open areas where many budiling "modules" connect to each other.
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If that random shards keep popping up at other places it means you're experiencing the exact same event over and over again. Which is something that even the lowest-quality content in Cyberpunk 2077 (Assault in Progress) manages to avoid.
Radiant quests, respawning enemies and them repopulating the same areas is not only lazy and boring, but also destroys the notion of my actions having impact on the game world.
Definitely. No to random stuff and enemies respawning. I loved how normal people repopulated areas cleared by V (doesn't happen everywhere, because that would feel artificial and repetitive).
 
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Also, regarding the city and its inhabitants, I personally feel like CP77 falls way sort in comparison to other games.

I know people hate the comparison to GTA V, but in terms of AI (NPC's who are part of the city and mentioned by OP), they are terrible compared to the NPC AI of GTA V (an 8 year old game) and even RDR2. Even the cities themselves, sure NC "looks" good, but so does San Andreas, but SA also "feels" good as it feel's alive, imo that is.

A fair comparison;

A slightly less favourable and more humorous comparison;

An excellent example of NPC's with day/night cycles

And before anyone chimes in and says that these are two very different games, yes, you are correct. But this is a comparison between the cities and the NPC's only, both mentioned by OP and on topic ;) And yes, NC is bigger than SA or towns in RDR2, however not every NPC in any of these games are always rendered on the map, so saying "NC has more NPC's" doesn't actually matter in the end as they are not all present on the map or within the players view.

I'm sure the devs at CDPR wanted to make a fully lived in city, NPC's with day/night cycles, and NPC's that were believable and not some weird automatons, but they didn't for what ever reason there was.
 
Honestly I couldn't say in which games the NPCs are best done (smart). Because I never had the idea to follow an NPC to see if what he was doing being "smart" or not. I have time to waste, but not like that... :(
As long as it seems "alive" around me, that's enough for me.

But in RDR2, I noticed when I was listening to an NPC that was selling a "do like me get rich" book in St Denis to see how many lines of dialogue he had (a lot...) is that most NPCs came out of a house a little further away, passed in front of me and entered in another (they weren't really despawned, but it's just like).
That and the fact that in the market where there was the "skin seller" (don't remember the name), most of NPCs waited there without doing anything.
 

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As long as it seems "alive" around me, that's enough for me.
Same. I don't really care too much how do they behave when player causes chaos, because I don't play Cyberpunk to create chaos on the streets. I also don't intend to follow some random NPCs around hoping to discover what jobs do they have, where do they live and with whom, what's their favourite meal or zodiac sign.
I mean, good for anyone who finds these details interesting, you clearly have someone who caters to your teste (Rockstar). If Night City and NPCs can look and behave realistically while I'm doing quests, then that's enough for me, too. They do do that most of the time, the most notable exception being traffic AI.
 
Another detail that comes back to me about the traffic AI (I don't know if we can compare and could be a little off-topic, sorry).
Horseman... I hate them so much in RDR2 !
How many time I crashed into a horseman arriving in front of me. He is on right, I go left and at the last moment, for no reason he changes side and it's impossible to avoid him :)
Seriously annoying for the challenge: Strawberry> Saint Denis in less than 9minutes...
 
Well for people who appreciate small details, then the NPC AI in CP77 falls down flat. You don't need to cause "chaos" to see how unresponsive the NPC's are in NC, you just need to stop and look. And it seems like people do stop and look at NC, since the entire thread was started regarding "the star of the show" ..

In still images, yes NC is amazing, but just walking around the streets even for a little while, the NPC's stand out for all the wrong reasons. In missions, the pedestrian NPC's don't really factor in since most missions are either inside building or compounds/yards. I travelled pretty much everywhere on foot on my first play though (especially when I got double jump) and the NPC's were constantly an immersion breaker for me.

You don't have to play V as some sort of crazy person shooting up the streets, but seeing a bunch of NPC's crouch in terror is laughable. Lore-wise, isn't pretty much everyone in NC armed? Why aren't people fighting/shooting back??

And just because you choose not to play V in a certain way, that doesn't mean that others don't or shouldn't. V is a merc but also a criminal since shooting and killing corpo guards isn't the same as killing gang members ect, so choosing to play as a character who likes a bit of shooting on the streets isn't that farfetched :LOL:
 
Well for people who appreciate small details, then the NPC AI in CP77 falls down flat. You don't need to cause "chaos" to see how unresponsive the NPC's are in NC, you just need to stop and look. And it seems like people do stop and look at NC, since the entire thread was started regarding "the star of the show" ..

In still images, yes NC is amazing, but just walking around the streets even for a little while, the NPC's stand out for all the wrong reasons. In missions, the pedestrian NPC's don't really factor in since most missions are either inside building or compounds/yards. I travelled pretty much everywhere on foot on my first play though (especially when I got double jump) and the NPC's were constantly an immersion breaker for me.

You don't have to play V as some sort of crazy person shooting up the streets, but seeing a bunch of NPC's crouch in terror is laughable. Lore-wise, isn't pretty much everyone in NC armed? Why aren't people fighting/shooting back??

And just because you choose not to play V in a certain way, that doesn't mean that others don't or shouldn't. V is a merc but also a criminal since shooting and killing corpo guards isn't the same as killing gang members ect, so choosing to play as a character who likes a bit of shooting on the streets isn't that farfetched :LOL:
Obviously, I don't said NPCs are good, well done or smart in Cyberpunk ;)
Just that personally, I don't pay more attention to them than that (and in all games in general).

For me the NPCs (and the traffic) are just there, "just to be there" (a bit like the police). In my opinion, probably more for lack of time than for a real desire to do them like that (as simpliest as possible). kind of :
"the realease happens, we have no time, unfortunately, we put them like that"
 

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Well for people who appreciate small details, then the NPC AI in CP77 falls down flat. You don't need to cause "chaos" to see how unresponsive the NPC's are in NC, you just need to stop and look.
If you're not causing chaos (be it shooting, throwing grenades at them or ramming them with your car), to what exactly are they supposed to respond?
V is a merc but also a criminal since shooting and killing corpo guards isn't the same as killing gang members ect, so choosing to play as a character who likes a bit of shooting on the streets isn't that farfetched :LOL:

1624728725804.jpeg

In case you are: your role is a merc, not Breivik's imitator.
 
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Obviously, I don't said NPCs are good, well done or smart in Cyberpunk ;)
Just that personally, I don't pay more attention to them than that (and in all games in general).

For me the NPCs (and the traffic) are just there, "just to be there" (a bit like the police). In my opinion, probably more for lack of time than for a real desire to do them like that (as simpliest as possible). kind of :
"the realease happens, we have no time, unfortunately, we put them like that"

I wasn't trying to have a go at you, or criticise what you like, I was just saying.

But to me, it seems odd to classify the NPC's (especially the traffic) as "just to be there". Aren't people and traffic key aspects to a city? If so, I believe more time should have been allocated to these to help drive home the fact that NC is full of "real" people and not some weird uncanny valley android like things :/

Anyway, if you are cool with them, that's all ok. But sadly, many people do not share that viewpoint :/
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If you're not causing chaos (be it shooting, throwing grenades at them or ramming them with your car), to what exactly are they supposed to respond?


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Just because you choose to play in a way where you aren't shooting at or near NPC's, that does not mean that other player aren't, and this should be catered for. The NPCs won't/can't fight V, even in a fist fight, nor will they even path-find around a vehicle that V parks on a path way, they just turn around and head back the way they came from :LOL:

I doubt that you looked at those videos in my previous post, but there show quite clearly the very restrictive behaviours of the NPC's, and that is in comparison to a game that was made and released 8 years ago. Quite shocking and sad to be honest.

Yes, V is a criminal too. Since when was it not a criminal act (even in NC) to kill non-gang members (ie cops, corpo guards), steal (heist mission for one), speed through traffic lights ect?
V might be a merc but she/he is also doing criminal stuff .. all the time :facepalm:
 
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I wasn't trying to have a go at you, or criticise what you like, I was just saying.

But to me, it seems odd to classify the NPC's (especially the traffic) as "just to be there". Aren't people and traffic key aspects to a city? If so, I believe more time should have been allocated to these to help drive home the fact that NC is full of "real" people and not some weird uncanny valley android like things :/

Anyway, if you are cool with them, that's all ok. But sadly, many people do not share that viewpoint :/
The key phrase of my post about "just to be there" is :
"the realease happens, we have no time, unfortunately, we put them like that"
I really think CDPR wanted to do it better, but lack of time, pandemic, whatever the reason... it's too "basic" to be really intentional.
I can't believe NPCs/Traffic/Police are as CDPR really wanted to be :)
 
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