Some Wild Hunt improvement suggestions...again

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Since this patch we saw the White Frost WH buff it makes me think that the devs do want to improve this archtype so i wanna give my 2 cents ideas on the matter

I feel like it's a personal tradition at this point. Every time i see a minor buff to the WH archtype i come here and give some more suggestions for some further improvements to the archtype, every time CDPR ignores me, then i do it all over again the next minor buff comes along. Hoping to wear them down some day )

So in the spirit of not breaking tradition, here we go again

Keep in mind that my purpose in this tread is to try to make the WH a tier 1 deck so i'll be comparing cards in each provision cost with the most powerful cards in those provision cost ranges.

Before we get to the cards, i wanna mention the other details that could be improved:

1. White Frost. This recent buff is nice but WH has units that are row specific and the fact that you have to move the unit to the other row makes you lose some points.
My suggestion for White Frost is to either let us chose if we move the unit or not OR remove the row part. As in, if there's frost on the enemy board get the extra point.

2. Make weather trigger at the end of my turn rather than at the start of the enemy turn. This is a quality of life change that i feel should be in game. I mean, to get the damage at the start of the enemy turn rather than the end of yours serves no porpuse other than make the weather player lose points whenever the enemy passes.

3. Dominance should be changed to trigger if there's frost on the enemy board instead of if you control the highest unit. The way it is now just doesn't make any sense and has no synergy with WH since most of their units are low points and mostly depend on their effects.

Now on to the cards:

First, i think the WH units should have armor since they are heavily armored so i will include that in my suggestions.

1. Wild Hunt Hounds - I think the hound should get in line with other 4 point engines that boost themselves by 1 point every turn (Garkain, master of disguise, mahakam defender, an craite warcrier etc.) so i think it should be 4 points for 4 provisions. That's all for this card.

2. Wild Hunt Warrior - I see that the norm with this update starts to be that the best 4 provision units are the ones that can play for 7 points (excluding the ones that can exceed that with setup or synergy with other cards) and by 7 for 4 i'm thinking cards like Aen Elle Conqueror, Arena Ghoul, Dwarven Mercenary etc.
So, following the example of other 7 for 4 cards i think WH Warrior should be as it is now but it should get 1 extra point and 1 armor (so it would be 4 points, 3 damage, 1 armor and if you don't have frost on the enemy board you get only 1 point of damage)

3. Wild Hunt Navigator - Pretty much the same thing as with the Warrior but instead of buffing the card by 1 point buff the effect. So it would be 3 points, 4 provisions, buff a unit by 2 and if you have frost on the enemy board buff it by 4 instead.

4. Aen Elle Conquieror - Just give it 1 armor to fit the whole armored WH theme. Honestly it doesn't really need it but i was just going for the armor theme thing .

5. Naglfar's Crew - This one is tricky. I'm tempted to say it should be 4 provisions to fit the whole 7 for 4 concept and that it's easy to kill but the synergy you get from frost for other cards might compensate for that extra provision point... yeah this one might be in a good spot if Dominance gets reworked.

6. Wild Hunt Rider - Now here's what i'm thinking... you left the Blightmaker into Mage Assassin combo intact except for that 1 provision increase which will do nothing so now it is 11 for 10 plus deck thinning... why is WH Rider into WH Rider an 8 for 10? As a matter of fact why are all the other thinning options 8 for 10? I think all such combos should be buffed so the Rider should be 5 for 5 and 1 point of armor (again the thematic thing) and the Mage Assassin should be 1 for 4 so that when he synergizes with the Blightmaker will be 10 for 10 plus deck thinning like all other combos.
Either that or buff all deck thinning combos to be on par with that Blightmaker + Mage Assassin.
So yeah, bottom line, Wild Hunt Rider - 5 point, 5 provision 1 armor.

7. Naglfar's Taskmaster - Honestly this card is pretty ok. Decent power, it has armor so it fits the lore but purify is more often than not useless. Maybe buff her to 6 so at least we get a 6 point body if we have nothing to purify?

8. Wild Hunt Bruiser - Now as far as 5 points cards go, i noticed that with this patch the norm tends to be 8 points for 5 provision. So, just buff it from 5 to 6 points and it's perfect.

9. Winter Queen - She's in a good spot but just let her be summoned from the graveyard as well. Some times we have to play cards like Red Riders or Ard Gaeth at the start of the second round to maximize the damage on both rows of the enemy and then they just pass and we go 1 card down because we have no unit. This would help the WH decks a ton. Oh yeah, and give her 1 armor

10. Nithral - Buff it to 6, give it 1 armor and it's golden.

11. Caranthir - This card is... ok-ish in this deck but considering WH decks don't have many engines that can survive after being spawned with 1 power he's almost useless in a WH deck. So, my suggestion is, leave the ability as is BUT add to it that if it's a WH unit don't change it's power. Oh yeah, and give him 1 armor. Maybe even 2 since no he's a big shot in the WH

12. Imlerith - Now this is the big one. Imlerith in the witcher story was more of a brute kinda character. Brawler, close combat fighter or however you wanna describe him. His ability should reflect that somehow. The way it is now with pulling a card from the deck it feels more like how Caranthir summoned WH reinforcements through portals in TW3. Not really a very brawler type ability. He should have some duel type ability or some sort of damaging type ability.
Give the deck thinning stuff to some other character... oh yeah and also give him 2 armor since he's also a big shot in the WH army.

13. Eredin - If Dominance gets reworked he's good. Just give him 3 armor since he's the king of the WH and he's good to go.

The cards from the WH that i didn't mention here, i didn't mention because i think they are in a good spot

Pfew that was a ton to type... well, i did my part in trying to improve my favorite archtype, thank you for reading and i'll be here posting suggestions again next time i see some minor buff to the WH, CHEERS!

 

[EduFerraz]

Well, if you try to give some real balanced improve, maybe devs will listen to you.

But some of your buffs are just ridiculous strong. Yeah, i know i know, you said you whant it tier 1 (or zero) but you cant cry if devs doesnt listen to you.

I can say some improvements are nice, But in all the context, your ideas are just crazy

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Most of my ideas are "buff by 1 point and give 1 armor" what's so crazy about that? )

 

[EduFerraz]

Most of my ideas are "buff by 1 point and give 1 armor" what's so crazy about that? )

Well, thats us your problem, you dont even figure the buffs you give for the cards.

But ok, lets go.

(inside the quote)

Now on to the cards:

First, i think the WH units should have armor since they are heavily armored so i will include that in my suggestions.

A lot of them are engines, and give armor to them it harder to remove. But i will especific the cards

6. Wild Hunt Rider - Now here's what i'm thinking... you left the Blightmaker into Mage Assassin combo intact except for that 1 provision increase which will do nothing so now it is 11 for 10 plus deck thinning... why is WH Rider into WH Rider an 8 for 10? As a matter of fact why are all the other thinning options 8 for 10? I think all such combos should be buffed so the Rider should be 5 for 5 and 1 point of armor (again the thematic thing) and the Mage Assassin should be 1 for 4 so that when he synergizes with the Blightmaker will be 10 for 10 plus deck thinning like all other combos.
Either that or buff all deck thinning combos to be on par with that Blightmaker + Mage Assassin.
So yeah, bottom line, Wild Hunt Rider - 5 point, 5 provision 1 armor.

No, simple no.


I agree Blightmaker and mage was too much, and i was one who was asking to nerf it. But you can compare the 2 combos.

Wild hunt rider you just need one wild hunt in hand (doesnt matter wich one)

Blightmaker you need to have blightmakers in hand and mage assassin in the deck


I still thik blightmaker are too good, but you need to commpare Hunt Rider with all the other bronze thinnin, and all of them are 8 for 10

7. Naglfar's Taskmaster - Honestly this card is pretty ok. Decent power, it has armor so it fits the lore but purify is more often than not useless. Maybe buff her to 6 so at least we get a 6 point body if we have nothing to purify?

Same goes here. If you compare with other bronze purifys, all of them have 4-5 body, why taskmaster will be 6? Also taskmaster can buff by the leader passive

8. Wild Hunt Bruiser - Now as far as 5 points cards go, i noticed that with this patch the norm tends to be 8 points for 5 provision. So, just buff it from 5 to 6 points and it's perfect.

No, you dindt count the movement, wich can "destroy" row locked cards

9. Winter Queen - She's in a good spot but just let her be summoned from the graveyard as well. Some times we have to play cards like Red Riders or Ard Gaeth at the start of the second round to maximize the damage on both rows of the enemy and then they just pass and we go 1 card down because we have no unit. This would help the WH decks a ton. Oh yeah, and give her 1 armor

Well, no comments here, she will be just too good. Even better than Mother of crows (and have thrive). Also, mother its 10 provision and, unless you discard it, you need to play her.

10. Nithral - Buff it to 6, give it 1 armor and it's golden.

If you compare with others 2 damage cards, all of them have 5 points (ok ok sigvald has 6, but for something specific, you deal one damage on it and he can does 2 damage) and they dont have armor.

Why nithral needs to be way better than the other cards?

11. Caranthir - This card is... ok-ish in this deck but considering WH decks don't have many engines that can survive after being spawned with 1 power he's almost useless in a WH deck. So, my suggestion is, leave the ability as is BUT add to it that if it's a WH unit don't change it's power. Oh yeah, and give him 1 armor. Maybe even 2 since no he's a big shot in the WH

Here is hilarious,. You will play any of your top gold 2 times with no penalty for it.

12. Imlerith - Now this is the big one. Imlerith in the witcher story was more of a brute kinda character. Brawler, close combat fighter or however you wanna describe him. His ability should reflect that somehow. The way it is now with pulling a card from the deck it feels more like how Caranthir summoned WH reinforcements through portals in TW3. Not really a very brawler type ability. He should have some duel type ability or some sort of damaging type ability.
Give the deck thinning stuff to some other character... oh yeah and also give him 2 armor since he's also a big shot in the WH army.

Well, here you dont give any real ability, but i agree imlerith should change

13. Eredin - If Dominance gets reworked he's good. Just give him 3 armor since he's the king of the WH and he's good to go.

3 armor to eredin? HHAHAH why? Only to be almost impossible to kill it?

For the 5 first cards i thinnk they are "ok". As i said, some changes are good, but in general the idea its crazy

 

[Riven-Twain]

Moderator: Please, remember our rules about kindness and respect.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Yeah, buddy listen, all those things are dependent on a reworked Dominance that only activates when you have frost on the enemy board. That's their limitation. You would have to sacrifice a bronze frost spawning card or a leader charge just to get that effect. The way you talk about those changes it seems you didn't even think about that so i can tell how much thought you put into this.

As for eredin being impossible to kill? You kidding me? You don't have enough locks and poisons in the game as is? )

With your mentality Gwent should always be a low point, binary and linear game with no serious decision making on the table. Just lock whatever and poison whatever without considering the high cost cards you need to counter down the line. That's not good game design.

P.S. not to mention all the cards that are almost auto include in most decks ATM that can easily deal with him. And his effect isn't even that big of a deal. So yeah, gimme a break with "you can't kill him if he gets 3 more armor!"

 

[Celadyl]

most of your suggestions have basically been implemented this patch with the leader buff. like bruiser playing for 8 when frost is on the board (which should never be a problem tbh). crew is now an 8 for 5 with this leader which is really good and honestly I think the WH cards are pretty much fine. only thing I hate about this archetype is the dominance part you mentioned (they could just make imlerith a big boi with shield or veil that gives dominance no matter what) and the fact that wild hunt is a devotion archetype and there is still no 5p damage card in monsters.
I get that giving armor to all WH units feels very thematic but sadly thats not how gwent is balanced at all.

 

[EduFerraz]

Yeah, buddy listen, all those things are dependent on a reworked Dominance that only activates when you have frost on the enemy board. That's their limitation. You would have to sacrifice a bronze frost spawning card or a leader charge just to get that effect. The way you talk about those changes it seems you didn't even think about that so i can tell how much thought you put into this.

As for eredin being impossible to kill? You kidding me? You don't have enough locks and poisons in the game as is? )

With your mentality Gwent should always be a low point, binary and linear game with no serious decision making on the table. Just lock whatever and poison whatever without considering the high cost cards you need to counter down the line. That's not good game design.

P.S. not to mention all the cards that are almost auto include in most decks ATM that can easily deal with him. And his effect isn't even that big of a deal. So yeah, gimme a break with "you can't kill him if he gets 3 more armor!"

well, all the cards i commented - with the exception of wild hunt rider and Nithrall - already need frost. And lets be honest, Nithrall needing frost and not dominance for me its a buff in that archetetype (in kelly carapace its a nerf, of course)

Winter queen already needs frost, eredin already needs it (and you dont even need the dominance) .

Caranthir and taskmaster doenst need frost and/or dominance.

Bruse needs frost do to the damage, or he only moves a card (a lot of time he is played in that way to "destroy" row locked units, as i said).

And its not "my mentality", its Devs mentality. They already buffed the archetetype and guess what.... no one of your ideas have been improvement.

Me, for other side, have the idea to give a buff to Miruna and, voila, in the next patch she had a buff.

So i think my "mentality" its next to the devs "mentality".

Cya and kisses for you

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

most of your suggestions have basically been implemented this patch with the leader buff. like bruiser playing for 8 when frost is on the board (which should never be a problem tbh). crew is now an 8 for 5 with this leader which is really good and honestly I think the WH cards are pretty much fine. only thing I hate about this archetype is the dominance part you mentioned (they could just make imlerith a big boi with shield or veil that gives dominance no matter what) and the fact that wild hunt is a devotion archetype and there is still no 5p damage card in monsters.
I get that giving armor to all WH units feels very thematic but sadly thats not how gwent is balanced at all.

Well i don't think that the leader ability alone makes up for that. The deck can't keep up with tier 1 decks like Jackpot or Imprisonment decks. Actually not even with tier 2 decks like Viy or She Who Knows it can't compete. It still needs some attention that's why i made this thread
Besides, leader abilities are one thing and individual cards are another. You can't judge a card by the points it can get in synergy with a leader ability. You have to judge it on its own.

well, all the cards i commented - with the exception of wild hunt rider and Nithrall - already need frost. And lets be honest, Nithrall needing frost and not dominance for me its a buff in that archetetype (in kelly carapace its a nerf, of course)

Winter queen already needs frost, eredin already needs it (and you dont even need the dominance) .

Caranthir and taskmaster doenst need frost and/or dominance.

Bruse needs frost do to the damage, or he only moves a card (a lot of time he is played in that way to "destroy" row locked units, as i said).

And its not "my mentality", its Devs mentality. They already buffed the archetetype and guess what.... no one of your ideas have been improvement.

Me, for other side, have the idea to give a buff to Miruna and, voila, in the next patch she had a buff.

So i think my "mentality" its next to the devs "mentality".

Cya and kisses for you

Yes, Nithral needing frost is a buff in a WH deck but it makes him next to useless in other decks. Like you mentioned Kelly for example. So that's why 6 points and 1 armor. Because outside of WH decks it does only 1 dmg and inside WH decks you don't have access to other crazy cards.
So the fact that your deck is limited to WH only justifies that buff.

True, Caranthir doesn't need dominance but he would also be limited to WH units only so again, there's your downside.

As for taskmaster if your argument is that it would be too strong compared to other purifying units than maybe rather than not buff her they should buff all purifying units.
My argument is solid for all single purifying units not just taskmaster. The argument being that purify is useless more often than not so you should at least get a somewhat decent body on the board.

The Bruzer argument that it can stop row locked units is also very situational. Just because sometimes it can be useful you can't put him with the top tier 5 provision cards. Most of the time the card is a 5 for 5 and if not you still have to use another bronze frost card first to get that value.

As for your Miruna thing i have no idea what you're talking about but i dubt it was because of you. If cards like Eist wasn't already in the game and i came here and made up that concept myself and you would see that that's a card that can put around 30 points on the board in 1 turn you would go "omg you're crazy what are you even talking about? you have no idea how the game works".
Same with cards like Morkvark:Terror of the Sea. You would be like "so you want a card that just destroys a unit no matter how buffed it is? HAHAHAHA you're crazy"
Ynnefer's invocation, same thing. I can go on forever but i think you get the point.
You're the type of guy who doesn't even bother to understand the concept behind an idea but starts complaining first and only THEN think about it or you don't think about it at all.
In your mind buffing some bronze cards by 1 point in a deck who can barely hold it's own against tier 2 decks (there's no point in talking about tier one) is considered "crazy" while the devs are here putting out cards like whoreson junior that if given the right setup can kill 4 endrega larvas that have already thrived once in 1 turn.

Yeah, sorry to give you this reality check mate but you're nowhere near the devs )

Anyway, i think i've made my point. Forgive me for not kissing you, instead i'll wish you a good night. Bye.

 

[Tucoffin]

Pfew that was a ton to type... well, i did my part in trying to improve my favorite archtype, thank you for reading and i'll be here posting suggestions again next time i see some minor buff to the WH, CHEERS!

Glad to see there's more than one madman (in this case, me) who's always trying to make WH frost archetype work. I find it curious that the strongest MO archetypes are quite boring and easy to play, but the one that requires planning and adjusting to the enemy's strategy can't hold its own most of the time. High risk, low reward in this case.

I think your suggestions are interesting, although some of them can be a little too strong considering the big picture (and how other decks can interact with these WH units). But as you and several people said over this and other threads, yes, please let's replace Dominance in this archetype. It does not fit.

Thank you for not abandoning our quest, brother! I trust we'll get there someday, somepatch!

 

[EduFerraz]

Well i don't think that the leader ability alone makes up for that. The deck can't keep up with tier 1 decks like Jackpot or Imprisonment decks. Actually not even with tier 2 decks like Viy or She Who Knows it can't compete. It still needs some attention that's why i made this thread
Besides, leader abilities are one thing and individual cards are another. You can't judge a card by the points it can get in synergy with a leader ability. You have to judge it on its own.



Yes, Nithral needing frost is a buff in a WH deck but it makes him next to useless in other decks. Like you mentioned Kelly for example. So that's why 6 points and 1 armor. Because outside of WH decks it does only 1 dmg and inside WH decks you don't have access to other crazy cards.
So the fact that your deck is limited to WH only justifies that buff.

True, Caranthir doesn't need dominance but he would also be limited to WH units only so again, there's your downside.

As for taskmaster if your argument is that it would be too strong compared to other purifying units than maybe rather than not buff her they should buff all purifying units.
My argument is solid for all single purifying units not just taskmaster. The argument being that purify is useless more often than not so you should at least get a somewhat decent body on the board.

The Bruzer argument that it can stop row locked units is also very situational. Just because sometimes it can be useful you can't put him with the top tier 5 provision cards. Most of the time the card is a 5 for 5 and if not you still have to use another bronze frost card first to get that value.

As for your Miruna thing i have no idea what you're talking about but i dubt it was because of you. If cards like Eist wasn't already in the game and i came here and made up that concept myself and you would see that that's a card that can put around 30 points on the board in 1 turn you would go "omg you're crazy what are you even talking about? you have no idea how the game works".
Same with cards like Morkvark:Terror of the Sea. You would be like "so you want a card that just destroys a unit no matter how buffed it is? HAHAHAHA you're crazy"
Ynnefer's invocation, same thing. I can go on forever but i think you get the point.
You're the type of guy who doesn't even bother to understand the concept behind an idea but starts complaining first and only THEN think about it or you don't think about it at all.
In your mind buffing some bronze cards by 1 point in a deck who can barely hold it's own against tier 2 decks (there's no point in talking about tier one) is considered "crazy" while the devs are here putting out cards like whoreson junior that if given the right setup can kill 4 endrega larvas that have already thrived once in 1 turn.

Yeah, sorry to give you this reality check mate but you're nowhere near the devs )

Anyway, i think i've made my point. Forgive me for not kissing you, instead i'll wish you a good night. Bye.

Hahaha of course i know The miruna change wasnt because my topic, i was just kidding.

And whats The problem to Kiss a guy? Hehe, nah, i am hetero, dont worry, just kidding here too.

I tryed to be some kind of acid in my first topic to instigate you to think and defende your arguments.

As you can see, english its not my native language and some times i cant Express myself very well.

Also, as i said in my first post, some changes are good, The 5 first cards i agree with The change, The frost beside dominance i agree too.

I Just try to see how far you could convince me and other ppl about The changes.

And being honest, i still think those changes are too OP, but at least my post started a discussion about it.

Imagine how bad could be the world If everyone agree with everyone

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Hahaha of course i know The miruna change wasnt because my topic, i was just kidding.

And whats The problem to Kiss a guy? Hehe, nah, i am hetero, dont worry, just kidding here too.

I tryed to be some kind of acid in my first topic to instigate you to think and defende your arguments.

As you can see, english its not my native language and some times i cant Express myself very well.

Also, as i said in my first post, some changes are good, The 5 first cards i agree with The change, The frost beside dominance i agree too.

I Just try to see how far you could convince me and other ppl about The changes.

And being honest, i still think those changes are too OP, but at least my post started a discussion about it.

Imagine how bad could be the world If everyone agree with everyone

Your english is good man. We can understand each other and i can tell what you're trying to say so that's good in my book
English is not my first language either so i'm sure there are some native english speaking people who can make fun of mine as well so no worries, we're in the same boat )

Of course no one will agree with everyone and that's good. Honestly i wouldn't mind hearing some other suggestions for improvement other than mine. Just hoping people will get invested in this thread a bit and post their ideas for improvements. As i said my goal is to make WH a tier 1 deck not to be right about everything )

So you're not quite on board with the dominance thing. Ok, what do you have in mind? Should it stay as is or should it be reworked in some other way that i didn't think about?

Post automatically merged: Jul 7, 2021

Glad to see there's more than one madman (in this case, me) who's always trying to make WH frost archetype work. I find it curious that the strongest MO archetypes are quite boring and easy to play, but the one that requires planning and adjusting to the enemy's strategy can't hold its own most of the time. High risk, low reward in this case.

I think your suggestions are interesting, although some of them can be a little too strong considering the big picture (and how other decks can interact with these WH units). But as you and several people said over this and other threads, yes, please let's replace Dominance in this archetype. It does not fit.

Thank you for not abandoning our quest, brother! I trust we'll get there someday, somepatch!

Thanks man! Always good to see people backing up the WH! Who knows maybe 1 day we'll get there

 

[EduFerraz]

Your english is good man. We can understand each other and i can tell what you're trying to say so that's good in my book
English is not my first language either so i'm sure there are some native english speaking people who can make fun of mine as well so no worries, we're in the same boat )

Of course no one will agree with everyone and that's good. Honestly i wouldn't mind hearing some other suggestions for improvement other than mine. Just hoping people will get invested in this thread a bit and post their ideas for improvements. As i said my goal is to make WH a tier 1 deck not to be right about everything )

So you're not quite on board with the dominance thing. Ok, what do you have in mind? Should it stay as is or should it be reworked in some other way that i didn't think about?

Post automatically merged: Jul 7, 2021

Thanks man! Always good to see people backing up the WH! Who knows maybe 1 day we'll get there

I think you are right. Frost should active/increase the skills.

Also, i think we need more MO units wich create frost.

I think Imlerith could have the Eredin Skill (since he does 3 damage if there is frost and fits well the idea imlerith doing more damage) and eredin could be reworked for something like "order - give frost in both opponents rows for 2 turns - cooldown 4".

So with him (alive and not lock, of course) and ard gareth you can put frost in both rows in an entire long round.

Also i think if you whant to make this archtetype really good (and of course i dont agree with this, since it will not be balanced) you need some cards with row punishment.

I mean, we have wererat already. but thats a deathwish card and doesnt fit too well in this archtetype. But if you have some cards wich does damage in all units in a row you can prevent your opponent to only put units in one row (or, if he does that, he knows the "X" card could appeared and do a lot of damage).


Oooor, we can have more units that move the opponents units (like bruisers).

For me that is the problem of frost. We whant to put in both rows in first round to get winter queen but, even with her, thats to low tempo if the opponent stacks all his units in one row)

EDIT: i was thinking, if devs change imlerith and he goes to something more "playable", problably imlerith wrath should change too.

I think it could be - does 4 damage - increase the amout of damage by the number of frost in the opponents rows. If imlerith its on the board, increase the inicial damage by 2

 

[Celadyl]

I did play a lot of WH last year when eredin etc came out. it wasnt the best but I enjoyed it alot (played with carapace). its an absolute chore playing it nowadays even after the frost buff lol
I outplay my opponent, get cardadvantage and then get stomped r3, short round or long one doesnt matter.

 

[quintivarium]

My objection to a lot of ideas shared here is that they involve redesigning cards to only be playable in a frost archetype. While I think it’s fine to have card packages that work together, if we are to have varied and creative decks, we need most cards to be flexible enough to find surprising and interesting uses across multiple decks. Five or Six archetype specific cards is plenty for any archetype.

(I am still upset that my favorite Gwent deck to date was destroyed by the rework to Fleder that effectively limits that card to vampire decks.)

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Also, i think we need more MO units wich create frost.

Well i guess that would be a welcome addition but right now i never run out of frost as is. The problem is i can't get the Dominance effect most of the time from my units because they are low power. And even if i did get the units are still too low power to compete with tier 1 decks.

I think Imlerith could have the Eredin Skill (since he does 3 damage if there is frost and fits well the idea imlerith doing more damage) and eredin could be reworked for something like "order - give frost in both opponents rows for 2 turns - cooldown 4".

Honestly, that sounds more like "increasing the potency of ice magic" so to speak. More like a magic user character rather than Imlerith.
In my opinion he should be either a duelist or straight up damage a unit by X or something like that.
OR... CDPR could give him a crazy ability similar to Unseen Elder or Eist or something like that. You know, a long description with many steps to it's effects that makes the card crazy good and impactful. But idk what could they do in that direction. That type of card design is beyond me

Also i think if you whant to make this archtetype really good (and of course i dont agree with this, since it will not be balanced) you need some cards with row punishment.

Why wouldn't you agree with making this archtype good? Aren't you tired of seeing the same 4-5 decks over and over in comp? If WH gets reworked into a top tier deck then you get a new competitor in ranked and therefor some more variety. Obviously the buffs don't have to be what i suggested but if they buff the archtype however they want and it becomes top tier i'm happy.

EDIT: i was thinking, if devs change imlerith and he goes to something more "playable", problably imlerith wrath should change too.

I think it could be - does 4 damage - increase the amout of damage by the number of frost in the opponents rows. If imlerith its on the board, increase the inicial damage by 2

I had a similar idea but mine was waaay out there back then. Only THAT was a crazy idea, what you saw here is nothing )
But yeah i think that Imlerith should somehow thin the deck by drawing out Imlerith's Wrath. I mean, it makes sense lore wise so to speak right?
But for that to work both cards need to be reworked somehow.
I was thinking that Imlerith should have one effect when played and then an order ability to play Imlerith's Wrath from deck (or hand and then draw a card). This way if it's on order you can counter it with lock or just kill the unit.

I did play a lot of WH last year when eredin etc came out. it wasnt the best but I enjoyed it alot (played with carapace). its an absolute chore playing it nowadays even after the frost buff lol
I outplay my opponent, get cardadvantage and then get stomped r3, short round or long one doesnt matter.

I feel your pain man. Yesterday i got stomped on by top tier decks in casual play when i was just trying to test out my WH deck. The only matches i won were against players who also played some... let's say "experimental" decks. I never understood why people play top tier decks in casual.

My objection to a lot of ideas shared here is that they involve redesigning cards to only be playable in a frost archetype. While I think it’s fine to have card packages that work together, if we are to have varied and creative decks, we need most cards to be flexible enough to find surprising and interesting uses across multiple decks. Five or Six archetype specific cards is plenty for any archetype.

(I am still upset that my favorite Gwent deck to date was destroyed by the rework to Fleder that effectively limits that card to vampire decks.)

Well, my idea was that if those cards don't have the frost limitation they would be auto include in all decks and that's never good for the game. So if they are limited to WH decks where you don't have access to cards like Viy, She Who Knows, Yghern, Koschey and other game changers, then their power is held in check.
I mean, you could include those cards but the point is to make the WH decks so good in a deck that synergyzes with frost that you wanna choose WH units over the ones i mentioned above.

Besides, i like decks that focus around archtypes. I would love to see for example Vampires vs WH or Insectoids vs Relicts or Cutups vs Blindeyes. Right now all decks feel to me like a mish mash of the best cards in each faction and there you go! Same 5 decks everywhere.
That's just boring for one, to see the same decks over and over again and second it makes no sense. Why would all the syndicate factions fight together in 1 deck? Why would Vampires fight side by side with WH? It just kills the immersion for me.

Now don't get me wrong, i get what you're saying. That we need creative decks that are strictly meant to be top tier. I get that. But my point is that if we want to build a deck around a specific archtype and follow the theme of that archtype we should be able to do that as well and compete with those top-tier-mish-mash-decks.

I suggested a while ago a new keyword similar to Devotion but instead of being limited to your faction, it should be limited to your archtype.

For example If your deck contains only WH units, your cards get that extra effect that drastically increases their effectiveness.

This way if you wanna keep mish mashing cards for top tier decks, good you have that option! If i wanna build a deck around WH or Vampires or Relicts or whatever it is, i also have that option PLUS my units become more effective in order to be able to compete with all your best cards from your faction shoved in 1 deck.

Because let's face it, if you build a deck around a specific faction because you like that faction there's no way you can compete with the decks that are build to win without some help.

 

[Madlax1992]

My own 2 cents here, to improve White Frost/Wild Hunt archetype without giving OP buffs to cards (or at least trying to):

Wild Hunt Warrior - power change from 3 to 4.
Wild Hunt Navigator - boost change from 3 to 4.
Wild Hunt Hound - power change from 3 to 4.
Aen Elle Conqueror - no changes needed.
Wild Hunt Rider - If Frost is on both enemy rows, summon all copies from your deck. Dominance ability remains.
Wild Hunt Bruiser - remove the row movement condition for damage.
Naglfar Taskmaster - replace Dominance with Devotion.
Naglfar's Crew - Armor goes from 1 to 2.
Red Riders - no changes needed.
The Apiarian Phantom - no changes needed.
Winter Queen - power goes from 4 to 3. Provision changed from 8 to 9. Ability change to 'Whenever Frost is on opponent's both rows, summon this unit from your deck or graveyard'. Devotion and Thrive remain. Basically this should be the MO equivalent of SY boat.
Nithrall - remove Dominance. Ability changed to: If Frost is on an enemy row, damage an enemy unit on that row by 2 instead. (Kelly fans won't be pleased, I know, but who cares?).
Ge'els - no changes needed.
Imlerith's Wrath - no changes needed.
Ard Gaeth - no change needed if the rework for Winter Queen is acceptable. If not, the remove Echo and reduce provisions from 8 to 7.
Naglfar - no changes needed.
Eredin - Spawn frost for 3 turns rather than 2. Provisions changed from 10 to 11. Dominance effect remains.
Caranthir - provisions changed from 9 to 10. New ability: If you control Auberon, Eredin or Imlerith, also spawn Frost for 2 turns on an enemy row.
Imlerith - power change from 2 to 3. Ability change to: Deploy: If both enemy rows are affected by Frost, summon and play a Bronze Wild Hunt unit of your choice from the graveyard and give it Doomed.
Auberon - no changes needed.
White Frost - Increase provisions to 16.

So this is it. Regarding Caranthir, I am not sure about the rework. I added that because as he is right now, he doesn't really synergize with the Frost, Wild Hunt mechanic, other than him being a Wild Hunt unit himself (thus benefiting from the leader's buff).

Regarding Imlerith, I think we can all agree that Discard is a mechanic that should not be in Monsters. The whole game has 9 cards with this mechanic, 7 in SK, 1 Neutral and this one. It is an odd-ball. While it has its uses, like Discarding an Yghern or Speartip and then consuming them with Ozzrel (a pretty good combo), I still think Imlerith should synergize with the Wild Hunt archetype. I was thinking of making him similar to Shani, allowing you to replay essentially a bronze WH card. Undecided on choosing the unit though. I think that is a bit too strong, most people will go for a Conqueror or Bruiser to maximize value.

Feedback is appreciated.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

My own 2 cents here, to improve White Frost/Wild Hunt archetype without giving OP buffs to cards (or at least trying to):

Wild Hunt Warrior - power change from 3 to 4.
Wild Hunt Navigator - boost change from 3 to 4.
Wild Hunt Hound - power change from 3 to 4.
Aen Elle Conqueror - no changes needed.
Wild Hunt Rider - If Frost is on both enemy rows, summon all copies from your deck. Dominance ability remains.
Wild Hunt Bruiser - remove the row movement condition for damage.
Naglfar Taskmaster - replace Dominance with Devotion.
Naglfar's Crew - Armor goes from 1 to 2.
Red Riders - no changes needed.
The Apiarian Phantom - no changes needed.
Winter Queen - power goes from 4 to 3. Provision changed from 8 to 9. Ability change to 'Whenever Frost is on opponent's both rows, summon this unit from your deck or graveyard'. Devotion and Thrive remain. Basically this should be the MO equivalent of SY boat.
Nithrall - remove Dominance. Ability changed to: If Frost is on an enemy row, damage an enemy unit on that row by 2 instead. (Kelly fans won't be pleased, I know, but who cares?).
Ge'els - no changes needed.
Imlerith's Wrath - no changes needed.
Ard Gaeth - no change needed if the rework for Winter Queen is acceptable. If not, the remove Echo and reduce provisions from 8 to 7.
Naglfar - no changes needed.
Eredin - Spawn frost for 3 turns rather than 2. Provisions changed from 10 to 11. Dominance effect remains.
Caranthir - provisions changed from 9 to 10. New ability: If you control Auberon, Eredin or Imlerith, also spawn Frost for 2 turns on an enemy row.
Imlerith - power change from 2 to 3. Ability change to: Deploy: If both enemy rows are affected by Frost, summon and play a Bronze Wild Hunt unit of your choice from the graveyard and give it Doomed.
Auberon - no changes needed.
White Frost - Increase provisions to 16.

So this is it. Regarding Caranthir, I am not sure about the rework. I added that because as he is right now, he doesn't really synergize with the Frost, Wild Hunt mechanic, other than him being a Wild Hunt unit himself (thus benefiting from the leader's buff).

Regarding Imlerith, I think we can all agree that Discard is a mechanic that should not be in Monsters. The whole game has 9 cards with this mechanic, 7 in SK, 1 Neutral and this one. It is an odd-ball. While it has its uses, like Discarding an Yghern or Speartip and then consuming them with Ozzrel (a pretty good combo), I still think Imlerith should synergize with the Wild Hunt archetype. I was thinking of making him similar to Shani, allowing you to replay essentially a bronze WH card. Undecided on choosing the unit though. I think that is a bit too strong, most people will go for a Conqueror or Bruiser to maximize value.

Feedback is appreciated.

Most of your ideas are the same with mine at least as far as bronzes go. Maybe if more people want this they will actually implement it.

Bruiser i like that alot. If the damage is guaranteed then it doesn't have to be 8 for 5 because like Edu said the movement could make a difference in some cases.

Winter Queen sure, that also works. As i said my idea was just to get some value out of Red Riders or Ard Gaeth in round 2 so that you don't go a card down. But i also think weather should be reworked to trigger at the end of your turn rather than the begining of the enemy turn so that we don't lose value.

Eredin i guess it could work but as i said above, i rarely find myself in need of frost.

Caranthir nope. That would make him 10 provisions for 4 damage and it would be conditioned on having one of those 3 cards. Plus as i said, i think with White Frost we have enough frost.

Imlerith idk... i guess it could work but i still don't think it fits his savage brawler type of character.

White Frost being 16 sure, i'm all for buffing it

 

[Madlax1992]

Most of your ideas are the same with mine at least as far as bronzes go. Maybe if more people want this they will actually implement it.

Bruiser i like that alot. If the damage is guaranteed then it doesn't have to be 8 for 5 because like Edu said the movement could make a difference in some cases.

Winter Queen sure, that also works. As i said my idea was just to get some value out of Red Riders or Ard Gaeth in round 2 so that you don't go a card down. But i also think weather should be reworked to trigger at the end of your turn rather than the begining of the enemy turn so that we don't lose value.

Eredin i guess it could work but as i said above, i rarely find myself in need of frost.

Caranthir nope. That would make him 10 provisions for 4 damage and it would be conditioned on having one of those 3 cards. Plus as i said, i think with White Frost we have enough frost.

Imlerith idk... i guess it could work but i still don't think it fits his savage brawler type of character.

White Frost being 16 sure, i'm all for buffing it

Movement in MO is a bit awkward. Yes, there is Drowner, but that one is awkward as well. Past and present thrive decks rarely played him. If there is Frost on an enemy row, and there is an unit there, let Bruiser do the damage regardless. 8 for 5 is ok in the current meta.

Winter Queen is still work in progress. I am still thinking whether it should Thrive if it will be changed like The Flying Redanian. Thrive units getting lowered power is actually a buff rather than a nerf. So I'm thinking to keep Devotion but drop the Thrive. If this rework is done, then Ard Gaeth should keep its echo and its current provisions.

For a leader card such as Eredin, getting 11 points (conditional) 13 in 2 turns is a bit too little. Most leader cards provide more points than that. Spawning Frost for 3 turns should fix this. It could be too much if Dominance is met though, but the current meta has plenty of way to answer it. I doubt MO Dominance will last for more than 1 turn anyway.

Regarding Caranthir, you would use him to spawn a Naglfar Crew and then spawn frost as well. As such, you get the same power/provision and an engine, which I think is pretty good and not OP. Maybe keeping his provision to 9 is better.

Imlerith would fit the brawler thing, but you kind of have 2 options in this scenario, to make him deal considerable damage, becoming like Whoreson Junior, which I don't like, or making him duel a unit, which again, I don't like the mechanic. This rework would make him play for 11 if you summon and play a Warrior, Navigator, Bruiser or Conqueror.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Movement in MO is a bit awkward. Yes, there is Drowner, but that one is awkward as well. Past and present thrive decks rarely played him. If there is Frost on an enemy row, and there is an unit there, let Bruiser do the damage regardless. 8 for 5 is ok in the current meta.

Winter Queen is still work in progress. I am still thinking whether it should Thrive if it will be changed like The Flying Redanian. Thrive units getting lowered power is actually a buff rather than a nerf. So I'm thinking to keep Devotion but drop the Thrive. If this rework is done, then Ard Gaeth should keep its echo and its current provisions.

For a leader card such as Eredin, getting 11 points (conditional) 13 in 2 turns is a bit too little. Most leader cards provide more points than that. Spawning Frost for 3 turns should fix this. It could be too much if Dominance is met though, but the current meta has plenty of way to answer it. I doubt MO Dominance will last for more than 1 turn anyway.

Regarding Caranthir, you would use him to spawn a Naglfar Crew and then spawn frost as well. As such, you get the same power/provision and an engine, which I think is pretty good and not OP. Maybe keeping his provision to 9 is better.

Imlerith would fit the brawler thing, but you kind of have 2 options in this scenario, to make him deal considerable damage, becoming like Whoreson Junior, which I don't like, or making him duel a unit, which again, I don't like the mechanic. This rework would make him play for 11 if you summon and play a Warrior, Navigator, Bruiser or Conqueror.

Actually movement in a WH deck i think it's a must considering row stacking, frost usage and all that. If anything i think we could do with 1 more card that can move stuff. Like give a order effect to another WH unit to move a card without damaging it maybe.

As far as Winter Queen goes, i understand what you mean by thrive being more than other similar cards but if you consider that WH's biggest unit is the Conqueror at 7 point that means she can get 4 extra points at best. If you compare that with The Flying Redanian could seem OP but if you compare it to Maddock it's nothing. I think your suggestion is a good middle ground between Flying Redanian and Maddock. Quite resonable imo.

With Eredin i 100% agree. He was done dirty. Maybe because he was one of the first leaders to be introduced to the game and they didn't really know what they wanted to do with them but still. If you compare him with crazy effects like Unseen Elder, Eist, Brouver Hoog etc. you can't even say they are in the same chategory. He needs a rework to put him on par with the other leader cards.

Caranthir sure it can work with Crew but it's too situational. I think he needs something more WH oriented so that he can be more useful in a WH deck rather than in most monster decks to put down a Koshchey or a witch apprentice or whatever.

Imlerith i just don't know. He's been through so many reworks already and none fit. WH needs some deck thining options and they gave that to imlerith. All good but the effect doesn't fit so i think an effect that somehow damages some unit with a order to think Imlerith's wrath from the deck would fit both the "lore" aspect of the card and it would take care of the thinning problem.

But for that to work and be balanced both Imlerith and Imlerith's Wrath would need some kind of rework.