Patch Notes 9.3

[Philido]

Selfeater doesn't need any aditional reasorces? ) So the relicts that you have to play after that in order to grow the individual bodies that it split into don't count or what?

So the crimes that you have to play to get coins for BGF count but the relicts that you play for selfeater to grow "neah, those don't count, selfeater does all that by himself".

The hipocrisy )))

You can't compare crimes with relics.... look at Shakedown, boost an ally by 3 and gain 3 coins. Which basically means 6 points. Then take BGF. Strength 6, can spend the 3 coins. That means you got 12 points out of these 2 cards. Selfeater has an Order. Splits itself up. All copies boost whenever you play one of your cards. You don't need anything like coins. Selfeater can potentially play for 10+ points all on its own by simply playing your cards. BGF will always only play for flat 6 because they need to get the coins elsewhere and just convert those into points. And just one question: Are you trying to provoke with sentences like the last one? For me this has nothing to do with constructive criticism, it's just plain rude.

 

[jed9653]

You can't compare crimes with relics.... look at Shakedown, boost an ally by 3 and gain 3 coins. Which basically means 6 points. Then take BGF. Strength 6, can spend the 3 coins. That means you got 12 points out of these 2 cards. Selfeater has an Order. Splits itself up. All copies boost whenever you play one of your cards. You don't need anything like coins. Selfeater can potentially play for 10+ points all on its own by simply playing your cards. BGF will always only play for flat 6 because they need to get the coins elsewhere and just convert those into points. And just one question: Are you trying to provoke with sentences like the last one? For me this has nothing to do with constructive criticism, it's just plain rude.

I agree with you. Even IF BGF and Selfeater are taken into the same light as engines, Selfeater is a much better one as BGF's damage can be absorbed or negated the next turn, and it's bleeding can be purified. Either case means a wasted coin and ping. Selfeater by design of the deck it's meant for will get its value simply by playing normally in a relict deck. Gaining coins for BGF can mean having to make suboptimal plays due to poor draws, lack of viable targets, facing decks that purify bounties (I use BGF in my bounty decks); and using coins for BGF means having less in the bank for a different spender.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

You can't compare crimes with relics.... look at Shakedown, boost an ally by 3 and gain 3 coins. Which basically means 6 points. Then take BGF. Strength 6, can spend the 3 coins. That means you got 12 points out of these 2 cards. Selfeater has an Order. Splits itself up. All copies boost whenever you play one of your cards. You don't need anything like coins. Selfeater can potentially play for 10+ points all on its own by simply playing your cards. BGF will always only play for flat 6 because they need to get the coins elsewhere and just convert those into points. And just one question: Are you trying to provoke with sentences like the last one? For me this has nothing to do with constructive criticism, it's just plain rude.

I'm not comparing crime cards to relicts. I'm comparing BGF to SE.

At the end of the day SE without any other card could only split 2 times (back when he was 6 points). and in the end he would lose 1 point if no other relicts were played. (6 points, splits and becomes 3-3 then another split and becomes 3,1-1)

BGF if we go off your suggestion it can at minimum do another 3 damage per turn (even more if you get more coins) so in many ways it is even better than SE. The fact that it's 6 point is not fair considering that SE when he was 6 and most MO players made the argument that you should just wait till it splits once and kill the second body people still complained that "yeah but there's still a 3 point body left behind that still grows" that applies to BGF too. You hit it for 5 but it still has 1 point left which can spend whatever coins you still had (and might wanna get that turn) and because of that you don't have to commit another spender that turn.

On top of all that, SE is 6 provision, BGF is 5. So a 5 provision card is ok to have 6 power but a 6 provision has to have 5 power cuz "yeah i wanna kill that engine in one card and no body should be left behind"?

In terms of points that they can generate, SE and BGF are extremely similar. Spenders are valuable to SY, Engines are valuable to MO. MO got the nerf hammer, SY is untouched with cards that are just as broken and others (like tunnel drill) that are even more broken are left untouched.

How is that fair? I simply ask for equal treatment to all factions across the board.

And speaking of equal treatment, Caranthir was limited to 10 provision cards and under because other combos were too much. Ok.

Renew was limited to 9 provision cards because anything above that was too much. Ok.

Why is it then that Yennefer's Invocation can steal ANY cards from your opponent and then the NG player gets to play that very same card? How is that fair?

OR! How is it far that NG has access to 4 and 5 provision locking cards that can nullify 12-13 provision cards? How is it far that a 4 provision card can counter a 13 provision one? No one wants to talk about that? The locking mechanic is "fine"? Hell no. If MO get nerfed into the ground i want all factions to get their fair share of nerfs for their own broken stuff and i will point it out.

I'm sick of NG being left unchecked every patch and MO getting nerfed into oblivion as soon as they get a good deck.

Also, no i'm not trying to provoke you. You mean the hipocrisy part? Why would that be a provocation. I only say it as i see it.

 

[EduFerraz]

Also People forget you have a lot of ways to geberste points with 4p cards, special The crimes One.

For selfeater you have only 4 bronzes (6 If you consider sucubus, wich has no sinergy with The deck) to buff it.

So i agree with Kayn, If selfeater gots nerfed Blood good friend need it too.

Also He is One provision less. Só you have a 6 power spender/engine for 5 provision and in other hand you have a 5power engine for 6 provision.

Also, as i said in The beggening, there is only a few bronze cards to trigger selfeater. I think when devs stop with this weird thing to Split The expansion and give US all the cards we can talk about nerfs.

If we have more bronze relicts tô change kikimore worker or even griffin, Maybe selfeater is going to be too much at 6 power. Until there, i thing it was absolute fine it at this power

 

[jed9653]

I'm not comparing crime cards to relicts. I'm comparing BGF to SE.

At the end of the day SE without any other card could only split 2 times (back when he was 6 points). and in the end he would lose 1 point if no other relicts were played. (6 points, splits and becomes 3-3 then another split and becomes 3,1-1)

BGF if we go off your suggestion it can at minimum do another 3 damage per turn (even more if you get more coins) so in many ways it is even better than SE. The fact that it's 6 point is not fair considering that SE when he was 6 and most MO players made the argument that you should just wait till it splits once and kill the second body people still complained that "yeah but there's still a 3 point body left behind that still grows" that applies to BGF too. You hit it for 5 but it still has 1 point left which can spend whatever coins you still had (and might wanna get that turn) and because of that you don't have to commit another spender that turn.

On top of all that, SE is 6 provision, BGF is 5. So a 5 provision card is ok to have 6 power but a 6 provision has to have 5 power cuz "yeah i wanna kill that engine in one card and no body should be left behind"?

In terms of points that they can generate, SE and BGF are extremely similar. Spenders are valuable to SY, Engines are valuable to MO. MO got the nerf hammer, SY is untouched with cards that are just as broken and others (like tunnel drill) that are even more broken are left untouched.

How is that fair? I simply ask for equal treatment to all factions across the board.

And speaking of equal treatment, Caranthir was limited to 10 provision cards and under because other combos were too much. Ok.

Renew was limited to 9 provision cards because anything above that was too much. Ok.

Why is it then that Yennefer's Invocation can steal ANY cards from your opponent and then the NG player gets to play that very same card? How is that fair?

OR! How is it far that NG has access to 4 and 5 provision locking cards that can nullify 12-13 provision cards? How is it far that a 4 provision card can counter a 13 provision one? No one wants to talk about that? The locking mechanic is "fine"? Hell no. If MO get nerfed into the ground i want all factions to get their fair share of nerfs for their own broken stuff and i will point it out.

I'm sick of NG being left unchecked every patch and MO getting nerfed into oblivion as soon as they get a good deck.

Also, no i'm not trying to provoke you. You mean the hipocrisy part? Why would that be a provocation. I only say it as i see it.

I will agree with you though on yennefer's bs and tunnel drill (even though I like using it). Both can be obnoxious, and while I like tunnel drill, it has that yrden vibe of just erase what you did the whole round with minimal setup.

Locks are iffy for me. I see the necessity to have them, but only because of how over-tuned some of these combos are. I feel as long as other combos like that exist, locks have to. But they should come at more of a cost, especially in NG case where they either trigger ball, status engines, or soldiers.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

Locks are iffy for me. I see the necessity to have them, but only because of how over-tuned some of these combos are. I feel as long as other combos like that exist, locks have to. But they should come at more of a cost, especially in NG case where they either trigger ball, status engines, or soldiers.

Of course locks should exist. I'm not debating that. My problem comes when a 4 provision unit like Van Moorlehem Hunter or a 5 provision unit like Alba Armored Cavalry (both exclusive to NG) can shut down a 11 provision card like Gerni or a 13 provision card like SWK.

If we're talking leader abilities like Imprisonment or Imposter then yes. That's a different story. Since they are leader abilities they should have no limitation in terms of locking a unit. But 4 and 5 provision units stopping any units no matter the provision cost is not fair.

 

[Philido]

I'm not comparing crime cards to relicts. I'm comparing BGF to SE.

At the end of the day SE without any other card could only split 2 times (back when he was 6 points). and in the end he would lose 1 point if no other relicts were played. (6 points, splits and becomes 3-3 then another split and becomes 3,1-1)

BGF if we go off your suggestion it can at minimum do another 3 damage per turn (even more if you get more coins) so in many ways it is even better than SE. The fact that it's 6 point is not fair considering that SE when he was 6 and most MO players made the argument that you should just wait till it splits once and kill the second body people still complained that "yeah but there's still a 3 point body left behind that still grows" that applies to BGF too. You hit it for 5 but it still has 1 point left which can spend whatever coins you still had (and might wanna get that turn) and because of that you don't have to commit another spender that turn.

On top of all that, SE is 6 provision, BGF is 5. So a 5 provision card is ok to have 6 power but a 6 provision has to have 5 power cuz "yeah i wanna kill that engine in one card and no body should be left behind"?

In terms of points that they can generate, SE and BGF are extremely similar. Spenders are valuable to SY, Engines are valuable to MO. MO got the nerf hammer, SY is untouched with cards that are just as broken and others (like tunnel drill) that are even more broken are left untouched.

How is that fair? I simply ask for equal treatment to all factions across the board.

And speaking of equal treatment, Caranthir was limited to 10 provision cards and under because other combos were too much. Ok.

Renew was limited to 9 provision cards because anything above that was too much. Ok.

Why is it then that Yennefer's Invocation can steal ANY cards from your opponent and then the NG player gets to play that very same card? How is that fair?

OR! How is it far that NG has access to 4 and 5 provision locking cards that can nullify 12-13 provision cards? How is it far that a 4 provision card can counter a 13 provision one? No one wants to talk about that? The locking mechanic is "fine"? Hell no. If MO get nerfed into the ground i want all factions to get their fair share of nerfs for their own broken stuff and i will point it out.

I'm sick of NG being left unchecked every patch and MO getting nerfed into oblivion as soon as they get a good deck.

Also, no i'm not trying to provoke you. You mean the hipocrisy part? Why would that be a provocation. I only say it as i see it.

I'm not defending SY nor an I saying that MO deserved that many nerfs. But it is clear that Selfeater and BGF are completely different types of cards. BGF and Coerced Blacksmith, these two are very similar. And regarding the NG stuff, this faction excels in fighting against engines. So yeah, of course NG can lock efficiently. And yeah, in certain match-ups this is very unfair while in others where there are no good cards to lock NG will be very unhappy. And I just think it's very provocative to allege hypocrisy the way you wrote it, as if you didn't even believe it yourself as it's clearly not the case here. I have no idea how anyone could say these cards are even remotely comparable.

Post automatically merged: Sep 2, 2021

Also People forget you have a lot of ways to geberste points with 4p cards, special The crimes One.

For selfeater you have only 4 bronzes (6 If you consider sucubus, wich has no sinergy with The deck) to buff it.

So i agree with Kayn, If selfeater gots nerfed Blood good friend need it too.

Also He is One provision less. Só you have a 6 power spender/engine for 5 provision and in other hand you have a 5power engine for 6 provision.

Also, as i said in The beggening, there is only a few bronze cards to trigger selfeater. I think when devs stop with this weird thing to Split The expansion and give US all the cards we can talk about nerfs.

If we have more bronze relicts tô change kikimore worker or even griffin, Maybe selfeater is going to be too much at 6 power. Until there, i thing it was absolute fine it at this power

Selfeater doesn't only get triggered by bronzes, so I don't get your point.

 

[Barracuda88]

What I really love is no matter the meta, the patches, the nerfs, the lack of buffs, you can always count on running into NG 8 out of every 12 matches

What a bunch of just real wholesome peeps playing gwent!

 

[Philido]

What I really love is no matter the meta, the patches, the nerfs, the lack of buffs, you can always count on running into NG 8 out of every 12 matches

What a bunch of just real wholesome peeps playing gwent!

View attachment 11250931

Damn, what NR lists did you encounter? I always see people saying this faction is bad right now lol

 

[MikeBiazzo]

Well, I'm sorry but I love my new Imperial formation soldiers deck

 

[Philido]

Well, I'm sorry but I love my new Imperial formation soldiers deck

Me too, my friend +.+

 

[MikeBiazzo]

Oh! A brother in arms! Are you enjoying the Vrygheff+Vreemde combination? Or maybe you have more agressive tactics.

 

[Barracuda88]

Damn, what NR lists did you encounter? I always see people saying this faction is bad right now lol

Draug/revs

 

[Philido]

Oh! A brother in arms! Are you enjoying the Vrygheff+Vreemde combination? Or maybe you have more agressive tactics.

Ramon+Vrygheff+Vreemde Unfortunately IF has become so bad. This leader needs some proper synergies with soldiers.

 

[EduFerraz]

well i have create a topic about it but seems no one respond to it.

i play on mobile and always when have a new patch the game says that and the patch start to download.
Now its nota happening that with me, but the game log on and i can play with the same decks i played last seasonal.

I hope i dont get banned because of that, but i already created a topic and post here

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

I'm not defending SY nor an I saying that MO deserved that many nerfs. But it is clear that Selfeater and BGF are completely different types of cards. BGF and Coerced Blacksmith, these two are very similar. And regarding the NG stuff, this faction excels in fighting against engines. So yeah, of course NG can lock efficiently. And yeah, in certain match-ups this is very unfair while in others where there are no good cards to lock NG will be very unhappy. And I just think it's very provocative to allege hypocrisy the way you wrote it, as if you didn't even believe it yourself as it's clearly not the case here. I have no idea how anyone could say these cards are even remotely comparable.

Ok let's come at this from another angle. When i compare BGF with SE i'm talking power, provision and the amount of points they can generate in a single round.

SE if it splits once it gets 2 bodies. That means when you play a relict it generates 2 points that round. The next round it splits again and it generates 3 points that round. So on and so on.

BGF can generate as much as 9 points in 1 round given the right circumstances. But i won't debate best case scenarios. So let's say they can generate... 4 points per turn?

So we have 2 different cards (yes, i agree they serve different roles) that are similar in strenght, provisions and points they can generate each turn.

To compare BGF to Coerced Blacksmith doesn't seem fair to me because ( I might be mistaken here, correct me if i'm wrong) it only gets a charge when you play a warrior. That means it can only generate 1 point per turn. BGF can put down way more than that.

On top of that, BGF is cheaper to include in your deck in terms of provisions, harder to remove and it gives you more or less the same points as SE while it's just as valuable as SE because SY is as much dependant on spenders as MO is on engines.

That's why i say, it's not fair for SE to get nerfed and BGF to remain as they are.

And look man, if you're so offended by me calling hipocrisy there i take that back. Honestly, i don't wanna fight in this topic, i just want all factions to get tuned down for their own broken stuff like MO did because i'm tired to always point out broken stuff of other factions but only MO seem to ever get nerfed to the ground in a matter of weeks / months while things that are straight up broken in other factions are left untouched for years.

 

[Philido]

Ok let's come at this from another angle. When i compare BGF with SE i'm talking power, provision and the amount of points they can generate in a single round.

SE if it splits once it gets 2 bodies. That means when you play a relict it generates 2 points that round. The next round it splits again and it generates 3 points that round. So on and so on.

BGF can generate as much as 9 points in 1 round given the right circumstances. But i won't debate best case scenarios. So let's say they can generate... 4 points per turn?

So we have 2 different cards (yes, i agree they serve different roles) that are similar in strenght, provisions and points they can generate each turn.

To compare BGF to Coerced Blacksmith doesn't seem fair to me because ( I might be mistaken here, correct me if i'm wrong) it only gets a charge when you play a warrior. That means it can only generate 1 point per turn. BGF can put down way more than that.

On top of that, BGF is cheaper to include in your deck in terms of provisions, harder to remove and it gives you more or less the same provision as SE while it's just as valuable as SE because SY is as much dependant on spenders as MO is on engines.

That's why i say, it's not fair for SE to get nerfed and BGF to remain as they are.

And look man, if you're so offended by me calling hipocrisy there i take that back. Honestly, i don't wanna fight in this topic, i just want all factions to get tuned down for their own broken stuff like MO did because i'm tired to always point out broken stuff of other factions but only MO seem to ever get nerfed to the ground in a matter of weeks / months while things that are straight up broken in other factions are left untouched for years.

The big difference between SE and BGF is that the first generates points through playing relicts while the latter only CONVERTS coins into points. Coerced Blacksmith is just another spender with 4 power and profit 2. And look, I also want a balanced game. MO got rightful nerfs, but not nerfing the other problem which is SY is just typical for the devs. But yeah, that's another topic.

 

[rrc]

This selfeater vs BGF is the classic case of double counting. When BGF uses the coins generated by other cards, it is the other card which generates the value and not BGF. If you consider that BGF is using those coins, which just means that the other cards played for far lesser value. BGF is on board and the player plays smuggle and use the three coins to do three damage. Total number of points in those two turns is 12 from 2 cards. On the other hand Self-Eater gets split into two and then GanCean is played, GanCean plays for 9 and SelfEater gains more points. Next turn, another GanCean or a crone gets played, the other card plays for its full value all the while SelfEater gets more and more points.

In case of BGF, the coins generated by the other card is simply used by BGF. If you count those coins for BGF, you shouldn't count those coins for the cards. It is that simple. All this argument would make sense if we are discussing about the Ranged row lock Halfling, whenever coins get generated, she boosts herself.

In logical sense I cant compare SelfEater and BGF. One is an engine which can go completely out of hands and the other is a static card which is just as good as any other spenders.

 

[MikeBiazzo]

Ramon+Vrygheff+Vreemde Unfortunately IF has become so bad. This leader needs some proper synergies with soldiers.

I shouldn't forgot old good Ramon... At least is an achetype good enough to reach Pro-Rank and have a great time.

 

[KaynOfNosgoth]

This selfeater vs BGF is the classic case of double counting. When BGF uses the coins generated by other cards, it is the other card which generates the value and not BGF. If you consider that BGF is using those coins, which just means that the other cards played for far lesser value. BGF is on board and the player plays smuggle and use the three coins to do three damage. Total number of points in those two turns is 12 from 2 cards. On the other hand Self-Eater gets split into two and then GanCean is played, GanCean plays for 9 and SelfEater gains more points. Next turn, another GanCean or a crone gets played, the other card plays for its full value all the while SelfEater gets more and more points.

In case of BGF, the coins generated by the other card is simply used by BGF. If you count those coins for BGF, you shouldn't count those coins for the cards. It is that simple. All this argument would make sense if we are discussing about the Ranged row lock Halfling, whenever coins get generated, she boosts herself.

In logical sense I cant compare SelfEater and BGF. One is an engine which can go completely out of hands and the other is a static card which is just as good as any other spenders.

Hold on. Coins are a mechanic specific to SY. That makes BGF important as a spender to it and that's why i said it's valuable to SY in the same way SE is valuable to MO.

To say that "BGF uses coins to get value" is the same as saying "SE can only proc if you use Relicts so that limitation makes the card ok" and btw, that argument was used and it still got the card nerfed.

It makes no difference to argue semantics that one uses coins and the other needs relicts. The reality is that they are both essential cards in their own respective decks, one more expensive in terms of provisions and it's weaker in terms of power and the other is the other way around.

P.S. if BGF is just as good as any other spender, why do people use it over let's say witch hunters? Because of synergy and higher power, that's why. So don't undersell it's value over other spenders.