I would trade the romances for some more joytoys/Mererdith-type one-night stands to be honest
Okay, even if look from this point, there is one same person in all romances - V, and for example how he can interact with Panam and Kerry are total different. With Panam there are a lot of flirt options in dialogues, but do you know how many flirting option with Kerry? Zero, you can't even flirt with him once.
I'm 39 years old, and in that time, I've had a lot of relationships. Some of them were very flirty, some were not.
Nothing you just explained deviated from my point about relationships being different. How you behave from one person to the next is also very different. That is normal. You don't talk to your grandma the same way you talk to your bros, for example.
Not everyone is flirty in real life friend, maybe that's just the character. Guys couldn't flirt with Judy either. It's really not that serious
Ok, somes already know that I had some "serious" debates on this thread, but I totally agree on this point with @cergyn, Kerry and even more River don't have the same "content & quality" in their romances content, it's undeniable. In my opinion, their romances are not bad, but definitely not at the same level as the two girls.
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"males V" can try, but Judy quickly set the record straight (don't be a gonk V^^)
Cyberpunk isn't real life, and "people are different" could be applied to how each romance option reacts and responds to V expressing interest in them, not how many or few flirty dialogue options V has with each option to begin with.
In the early stages of her relationship with V, Panam expresses uncertainty and even concern that she might mess it up, yet V has option after option to flirt with her. Her worry is laid to rest through romance dialogue.
But somehow V kissing Kerry despite showing no interest in him prior (there's literally not a single option that would allow V to show interest prior), then going back to acting uninterested until it's time to get frisky and then not having a single dialogue option to acknowledge the romance is even active is a-okay because it's like real life? What kind of relationship is this suppose to be? All epilogues treat like it's a serious romantic relationship but with a nonexistent buildup like that it's hard to see it as such.
Cyberpunk is an emulation of reality, and both the creator of the story, Pondsmith, and the developers at CDPR, have made it quite clear that they were setting out to create realistic characters with real motivations.
Not a dating sim.
Real relationships all develop differently, and because all people are different, there are no cut and dry rules for how it works and how people will respond to your advances and/or lack thereof. You're searching for logic where none can be expected unless you artificially force it just for the sake of giving the player a 'choice' between cookie-cutter virtual sex dolls.
You say this isn't real life, fine. I say it isn't Mass Effect, either. It's doing its own thing and that's fine.
Ah yes, people expecting all available options being given sufficient amount of content that's necessary to create a relationship that feels believable and natural means that we want a dating sim.
Cyberpunk is a product we paid money for and we're allowed to criticize aspects we found lacking. You keep talking about real relationships, but the way Kerry's and River's romances develop feels nothing like real life. They feel video gamey.
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Might just be expecting too much. Because it's not a dating sim. That was my point.
I never said anything about whether or not you're allowed to criticise. Turns out, I'm allowed to criticise too. Specifically, I'm criticising your criticism. Again, real relationships develop in all kinds of ways. In fact, the way relationships develop in most other games, such as Mass Effect, are themselves completely artificial. Each one requires a certain number of conversations before anything can happen, but again, there are real relationships that begin without either person really even getting to know each other at all, and last a very long time.
What you're expecting is what you've seen from other games. If that's what you want, then those other games already have that. Cyberpunk offers something different, and if you don't like it, that's fair, but I think a lot of people are expecting the same fake artificially-developed 'romances' they've been getting from games like Mass Effect and sadly come to expect that to be how relationships actually work and end up expecting the same thing from any other game of a similar nature.
My brother has had the same partner for almost a decade now. They met at a work conference and after not even a few minutes together, they were in a relationship. That might seem 'lackluster' to you, but it's very very real and even normal and not uncommon.
Sure it's not, but it's sad that those who romanced Kerry and River don't feel the same as me with Judy... I mean, one of the best romance that I lived in a game. Indeed it's just my opinion, but it's a shame...
What I'm expecting is what I saw in Cyberpunk with Judy's and Panam's romances. They're different characters with different life experiences and personalities, their romances start at different points in their respective questlines, but both were given enough romance dialogue to properly develop their relationships with V. Kerry and River weren't given enough.
Real people have time to nurture their relationships. Your brother had almost a decade to do just that. Video games don't have that luxury. V can't nurture their relationship with Kerry or River once their questlines are complete, because they go back to being static NPCs. Kerry doesn't even have a single dialogue option post-storyline that would acknowledge he's in a relationship with V.
That would be because neither River nor Kerry are heavily involved in the main story. Intimate relationships aren't the focus of the game. I turned down almost all of the characters because I wasn't interested in that stuff. I think perhaps you need to manage your expectations where romance is concerned. I didn't care for the flirting with Panam or Judy because that's not how everyone does things so we won't get everything we want.
If you are asking for Judy or Panam to be replaced by River or Kerrie. I'm sure I don't need to explain why that would be a problem for sales since the ppl buying the game fall into a specific demographic.
And if it was a dating sim, I would agree with you.
But it's not a dating sim.
What you're doing is the equivalent of saying, "where's my Nissan Skyline?" in a combat flight simulator. Now it's true that the study sim DCS lets you control a few ground units like tanks and various ADS systems, but that's not what the game is primarily for or about, so it's a feature that doesn't get as much attention as the game's primary mechanic of flying fast jets. The romance options in the game are considered based on the game's primary purpose - to tell a story. How much of a distraction are they from that story? How important are they to progressing it? Well, River is entirely distraction, and plays zero role in the main story at all. Kerry doesn't really pop into V's life until V is just about done in the world, and can play a more central role in the main story, but still serves as a late game distraction. More of a fling than anything. Meanwhile, both Panam and Judy play central parts in the primary narrative, so their characters being more developer for those roles and as people in V's life makes sense. And not just in terms of narrative, but also in terms of development time. The developers have to decide on what features to focus their resources, and prioritise based on that.
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time to following you
In my opinion, talking about the main story in this thread is totally irrelevant. Because none of the romances are linked to the main plot, alls are linked to side quests and are "distractions" to quote you. Even Panam, (without spoiler) you discover that her side quests open a new ending only after completing them. In short, during the "main story line", there is no romance option whatever the character...
Judy's romance have nothing to do with the main quest at all (saving the dolls in the Clouds...).
Just one example, if you leave Night City with the Aldecaldos, if you romanced Judy, she come you and you can have a great and nice moment with her before leaving. But with River or Kerry, no matter the ending that you can choose, you don't have this kind of moment...
That's sound like a disparity, no ?
But the characters involved in them are.
That's what I'm pointing out, and that's why they get more development, not just in terms of narrative involvement but also because the developers are trying to tell a story and prioritising where to devote their resources while minimising distractions to the story.
Just my opinion, but unrelated
With Judy, once you find Evelyn and search for the VDBs, her involvement in the main is totally ended. Before this point, you can't romance her and everything after, is side quests and totally unrelated to the main quest line, exactly as River and Kerry.
But her involvement in the main story is precisely why she gets more development consideration.Just my opinion, but unrelated
With Judy, once you find Evelyn and search for the VDBs, her involvement in the main is totally ended. Before the point, you can' romance her and everything after, is side quests and totally unrelated to the main quest line, exactly as River and Kerry.
So yes, for the same "distracting" content (i.e side quests unrelated to the main story line), there are disparities, which is the subject of the thread
(after why... Who know. Lack of time because Kerry and River romances were added afterward...? Teams who work on Kerry and River romances were less inspired...? I have a hard time that it was totally intentional...)
Well it's one I'm not seeing then, because I've played through both River and Kerry's sets of side quests and they all seem very well thought out and developed.So yes, for the same "distracting" content (i.e side quests unrelated to the main story line), there are disparities, which is the subject of the thread
You got it! If it's not something you've experienced, I can only describe it as alienating.
I agree with a lot of what you said and I really think there is just some misunderstanding of the intent and wishes of the posters here. Dating sims and romance arcs in RPGs are two completely different things. There are definitely posts around of people asking for dating simmy features, but that's not the core of this thread.
CDPR has mastered female romances but this is their first try at male romances. Feedback is good and shouldn't be shooed away with "not a dating sim". Romance can be just as important narratively as ANY relationship between characters, and is an important catalyst in Cyberpunk's narrative as we see with Johnny/Alt/Rogue. Romance arcs have an awkward spot of always being optional but it's still a very strong narrative tool.
I agree that the 4 options are all completely different characters with different stories and should not all follow the same cookie cutter path. I think some confusion comes up when we've pointed to examples either in Panam/Judy's line or in other games. I can at least speak for myself and say it's a layman's way of trying to explain why some interactions work and some don't. I'm not a narrative or character designer and without that expertise, it's difficult to articulate all the nuance. River and Judy actually have very similar structure, but one works and one doesn't.
We're not asking for CDPR to just follow Bioware's structure or to copy/paste the Panam formula. I think it's a lot more interesting and believable for them to have completely different experiences. We are just asking for content that is more even (in their own way) with what Panam and Judy got, which is completely reasonable. To be constructive we specify what is not working and offer examples of what does. But this thread seems to have a natural life cycle where that is taken as a dating sim feature petition.
And the unfortunate conclusions where the ladies get a warm ending and the men only get depression was BAD. I'm a bit surprised that they left it that way. That's not a good place to draw that line, even unintentionally.
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