1.2 completely broke RT Reflections

[Martin_Pointner]

In Patch 1.2 Raytraced Reflections are completely broken.
Textures of objects in the reflected image have the lowest possible quality, NPCs dissapear after like 2 meters, and the lighning is not applied correctly in the reflection, shadows have the lowest possible resolution and quality.

It is very noticeable if you set your Screen Space reflections to Psycho and play around a litte with a reflecting Window or something like that. You can literally see the transition from SSR to RT Reflections in motion, when the Reflection gets very very ugly.

Images are taken with RTX 3080, 4k, DLSS Performance, RT Shadows and reflections on, RT Lightning off, SSR High

EDIT: Can a mod move this to Technical - PC please? Kudos.

 

[Martin_Pointner]

I cant believe that no one else noticed this. Possible Reasons:

1 - my Graphics Card or PC is broken.
2 - my game is bugged and needs a clean reinstall.
3 - no one else did manage to get their hands on a GPU capable of doing RT in this game.
4 - no one does care about it anymore.

 

[Hayte]

Oh it has been noticed. I'm not on RT but reflections/shadows are super janked in certain conditions now:

 

[Martin_Pointner]

Oh it has been noticed. I'm not on RT but reflections/shadows are super janked in certain conditions now:

Hm, I am on RT Shadows but I did not notice anything strange about my non reflected shadows... oO
How to reproduce?

 

[Jimmy_Goldenhand]

Same here with a RTX 3070.
RT reflection is broken, had to deactivate the option. Some places are fine, some are unplayable (El Pinche Pollo restaurant).

CDRP and Nvidia should look after that.

 

[Hayte]

Hm, I am on RT Shadows but I did not notice anything strange about my non reflected shadows... oO
How to reproduce?

I do not have an RTX card. I have a GTX 1070. That video was taken at the West Wind Apartments (Pacifica) waypoint and ripperdoc at approximately midnight. At other times of day, outdoor shadows cast correctly. I haven't figured out whats causing it yet.

 

[SigilFey]

I do not have an RTX card. I have a GTX 1070. That video was taken at the West Wind Apartments (Pacifica) waypoint and ripperdoc at approximately midnight. At other times of day, outdoor shadows cast correctly. I haven't figured out whats causing it yet.

Running RT functions on GTX/Pascal cards is still extremely experimental. Those cards are not designed for it, and therefore, the drivers will need to shoehorn the functionality into them. If you're trying to run RT functions on a non-RTX card, expect some jank. (At least, for now!)

EDIT: Reading again -- are you running RT? Or is that through the non-RT mode?

 

[Hayte]

I am not running RT at all. I think some reflections/shadows are just broken when cast from point light sources both indoors and outdoors.

 

[Martin_Pointner]

I do not have an RTX card. I have a GTX 1070. That video was taken at the West Wind Apartments (Pacifica) waypoint and ripperdoc at approximately midnight. At other times of day, outdoor shadows cast correctly. I haven't figured out whats causing it yet.

I can confirm exactly this spot at around midnight. RT Shadows On or OFF does not matter in this case, the setting bugged is "Local Shadow Quality". If you turn it off the Player Shadow disappears, the other 3 settings are very very ugly and choppy, as seen on the video.

EDIT: Lol, just tried out a few other lights in the area. The one at the water seems to be ok, shadows look normal. Then going back to the waypoint my shadow was gone completely. Checking in the direction of the ripperdoc i found a light which made my shadow be smoothed out and fluid in the motion, but missing my head and feet. Back to the waypoint again i had a fluid moving but pixelated shadow, missing head and feet.
Seems there is some RNG involved with the shadows XD

 

[SigilFey]

I am not running RT at all. I think some reflections/shadows are just broken when cast from point light sources both indoors and outdoors.

I can confirm exactly this spot at around midnight. RT Shadows On or OFF does not matter in this case, the setting bugged is "Local Shadow Quality". If you turn it off the Player Shadow disappears, the other 3 settings are very very ugly and choppy, as seen on the video.

Interesting...

Ray tracing and transport lighting are two, totally different systems. Therefore, for the issue to be present using both methods, I think this means there may be an issue with the mesh data or something, rather than the shadows directly. Can you send this in to CDPR Support?

Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED

Welcome to CD PROJEKT RED Technical Support! Here you will find help regarding our games and services, as well as answers to frequently asked questions.

support.cdprojektred.com

Please, read the appropriate FAQ section to the end, ensuring all suggestions have been followed. If the problems persist, you can use the "Contact Us" link to send in a ticket.

Be sure to include your system (including specs if on PC), a brief description of the issue, and the steps taken to reproduce it (if applicable).

 

[Hayte]

Interesting...

Ray tracing and transport lighting are two, totally different systems. Therefore, for the issue to be present using both methods, I think this means there may be an issue with the mesh data or something, rather than the shadows directly. Can you send this in to CDPR Support?

I have no problem submitting a report but I tend to hold off for a bit and use these forums to gather more information, share ideas with other people, test and verify things. I don't really want to send some QA tester down a rabbit hole to nowhere on a quest to find a needle in the wrong haystack.

Whats your hunch about meshes?

What I understand so far (correct if wrong):

1. RT reflections and shadow casting are only calculated from a single light source, namely the sun/moon, which are functionally just giant area lights.

2. The westwind apartments ripper doc clinic is lit entirely with small point/area lights. RT is not used to calculate these shadows or reflective surfaces. When I step outside during the day, shadows seem to cast correctly if standing by the waypoint terminal. If I skip time to around midnight, the shadows are busted. I presume this is because there is a street light nearby (small area light) and its using the non RT method for that?

3. Of course this doesn't explain why Martin is getting completely borked reflections while looking into glass windows during daylight. These are definitely RT reflections. I don't know. Maybe the entire lightning engine is broken from top to bottom? That includes both RT reflections and whatever depth buffer ray marching they do in screen space for the people without RTX cards?

What would help is if people notice strange shadows/reflections, post here with screenshots or video (if possible) and note the following information:

1. RTX on or off.
2. location (in-game, nearest waypoint).
3. time of day (in-game).

This way we can all go to the same location, at the same time and compare observations. This may help clarify whats going wrong and where and which problems are specific to RT.

 

[SigilFey]

I have no problem submitting a report but I tend to hold off for a bit and use these forums to gather more information, share ideas with other people, test and verify things. I don't really want to send some QA tester down a rabbit hole to nowhere on a quest to find a needle in the wrong haystack.

Whats your hunch about meshes?

What I understand so far (correct if wrong):

1. RT reflections and shadow casting are only calculated from a single light source, namely the sun/moon, which are functionally just giant area lights.

2. The westwind apartments ripper doc clinic is lit entirely with small point/area lights. RT is not used to calculate these shadows or reflective surfaces. When I step outside during the day, shadows seem to cast correctly if standing by the waypoint terminal. If I skip time to around midnight, the shadows are busted. I presume this is because there is a street light nearby (small area light) and its using the non RT method for that?

3. Of course this doesn't explain why Martin is getting completely borked reflections while looking into glass windows during daylight. These are definitely RT reflections. I don't know. Maybe the entire lightning engine is broken from top to bottom? That includes both RT reflections and whatever depth buffer ray marching they do in screen space for the people without RTX cards?

What would help is if people notice strange shadows/reflections, post here with screenshots or video (if possible) and note the following information:

1. RTX on or off.
2. location (in-game, nearest waypoint).
3. time of day (in-game).

This way we can all go to the same location, at the same time and compare observations. This may help clarify whats going wrong and where and which problems are specific to RT.

I'm not sure at all where the light sources are coming from or exactly how the game handles it for one area or another. The only thing I'm sure about is that if a light source is utilizing ray-tracing, then it's not utilizing rasterization methods. The difference is literally either painting a shadow on a surface using grey/black pixels or polygons to create the illusion of a shadow (classic rasterization methods) or shining a practical light from a source and having some of the light particles be blocked, reflected, refracted, and/or diffused by 3D objects in the game, creating an actual area of darkness (ray tracing).

Hence, the physical location in the game is not really the issue, I'd imagine, but it's likely whatever 3D data is present for the affected textures and/or meshes may be corrupted somehow. With either method, there will need to be:
1.) a light source.
2.) a 3D object with collision data that intercepts the light coming from the source.
3.) a mathematical process that decides where the shadow will fall.
4.) a surface upon which the shadow appears, whether rendered and drawn using transport data to create a painted shadow over the surface, or using ray tracing data to block the simulated particles and prevent the light from striking the surface.

Thus, if there is a similar issue with the final shadow image rendered and drawn to the screen, but the lighting for the rest of the scene is correctly displayed, it stands to reason the issue must lie with the surface itself, and not the data involved in either the light source or the lighting method.

 

[Martin_Pointner]

Westwind Appartements Waypoint around midnight is a very good place to test things.
At the ripperdoc you can check the borked RT Reflections (NPC Reflection draw distance, plastic curtains not reflected at all, etc.)
Directly at the waypoint there is a light on the wall, which produces borked shadows of your charakter. (This light you can not shoot off the wall or damage it)
Near the water there are normal street lamps which produce normal shadows. Those you can shoot out / turn off.

Screen one: borked shadow at waypoint (but this time with head and feet, like I said its random if you get a shadow at all there, shadow is pixelated and moves with like 1 FPS)
Screen two: normal shadow near the water, in the back you can see the waypoint. The borked light source you can not see, because of poor draw distance.

 

[458speciale]

I cant believe that no one else noticed this. Possible Reasons:

1 - my Graphics Card or PC is broken.
2 - my game is bugged and needs a clean reinstall.
3 - no one else did manage to get their hands on a GPU capable of doing RT in this game.
4 - no one does care about it anymore.

I've notice that and said about it in the 1.2 patch thread ("less reflexes, especially on cars"). The 1.2 update (at least for me) have also lowered the LOD, I can clearly see that the building's textures are ess detailed from distance than before, the surroundings appears more blurred/washed out

 

[SigilFey]

I've notice that and said about it in the 1.2 patch thread ("less reflexes, especially on cars"). The 1.2 update (at least for me) have also lowered the LOD, I can clearly see that the building's textures are ess detailed from distance than before, the surroundings appears more blurred/washed out

There will likely be some back and forth with this while the engine is being balanced. It's pretty common in lots of games for LoD or even overall draw distances to fluctuate between versions.

I remember something similar with one of the TW3 patches. Near field pop-in was drastically reduced, especially for crowds of NPCs and such...but little details like railings on balconies and whatnot seemed to be non-existent until they were right in front of you.