A buff to clear skies

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A buff to clear skies

I made a post about this after the KTS event and wanted to update it a week into the beta. I couldn't edit that post though so here I am. For anyone curious about the last post, visit http://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...meritium-bomb-effect-removed-from-clear-skies.

​Briefly I'd like to go into this by saying that I still believe clear skies is in need of a buff. I still feel like it will not be played due to the card not returning the buffs that you have put into your units over the course of a few turns. This inadvertently makes weather very powerful. I wouldn't want to see any mechanical changes to weather as long as clear skies was buffed to a more competent power level.

As of now, when I play monsters, I can use every single weather card as if it is a row specific, dimeritium bomb. This will either win me the game, or if they do have clear skies, will remove all of their buffs up until that point. The latter is powerful enough to where I usually don't even care if the weather stays up.

I know it has been mentioned that there will be more anti weather cards coming out but if nothing changes with clear skies then clear skies will forever be left in the dust.

In the last thread, many mentioned that it would be nice if weather play could return to the way it was in the original Witcher 3 (to my knowledge). The counter was made that it would be very complex for new players and would be hard to keep track of all the buffs and woundings on a board filled with units.

This was suggested in that thread: Its a weathermark system where when units are affected by weather, they have a separate value on their card. It may be clunky if there is a lot of units though. They could have the current, weather value on the card and upon viewing the card show its base value if weather was removed. There was a statement saying something like this was worked on but wasn't working correctly. I'm hoping more time can be put into it, the mechanics were there in the Witcher 3, its just a visual issue I'd imagine at this point.

Here is the table suggesting how it would work, from the member who posted it.


A solution (zkenpachiz):

Card NumberWeathermark
8 on the melee row8Doesn't apply
The value is increased by 816Doesn't apply
The value is decreased by 106Doesn't apply
Frost is played setting its value to 161
The value is increased by 5116
A horn is played doubling the value2212
Clear Skies is played22Doesn't apply





















Again, If weathermark looks clunky or is too congested with the other value so close then I suggest that it replaces the value spot (since it is the current value) and the base value (not to confuse with original) will be visible when you highlight the card.

I think this is fairly simplistic and would allow buff decks to adequately keep up with weather control. This will also make weather play more skillfull. As of now you can pretty much throw down as much weather as you want. With clear skies actually being a threat, you have to use weather more sparingly. You may have to use that fog sparingly if it happens to be your only one. You would have to start trying to bait out clear skies like we do when we try to bait out scorch. Since fog hasn't been dealt with, should I also throw this frost out there? How much do I want to put on the table for the clear skies to counter?

I'd prefer it this way. I wanted to update this post while we have this forum activity to get other members opinions. This is the simplest solution that I can think of without drastically changing the mechanics of how weather works. An indepth video tutorial on weather play wouldn't hurt new players, regardless of if this change happens or not.

 
Yeah, I agree.
I had to remove clear skies from my STCL deck since it resets Hawker cards back to its base value if the card is being affected by weather.
I really hope they buff it or make more anti-weather cards.
 
poopoo145;n6863480 said:
Yeah, I agree.
I had to remove clear skies from my STCL deck since it resets Hawker cards back to its base value if the card is being affected by weather.
I really hope they buff it or make more anti-weather cards.

​I feel your pain, well on the other side of it . I've held rain until hawker has had well over 20 before. I feel so bad because there is no counter to the buff lost. It really is like playing a dimeritium bomb on you. CDPR did mention that more anti weather cards are coming, I hope they are decent. As of now though, clear skies is near unplayable for a lot of buff decks.
 
This "issue", IMO, is very close to Philippa's one :)

I think that keeping buffs only encourages greedy play instead of tactical play. You have lots of cards and lots of means to win the game, focusing on just the one trick makes you vulnerable to certain cards/decks/combos which is actually pretty normal for ccg and only makes the game better and more tactical.
 
I think it would be great if a new weather card did this. I also think it would be advantageous to keep Clear Skies as is. This way, both options exist and decks can choose the one they prefer (there are times I want clear skies and being able to return units to original value and remove buffs - like a Skellige wounding deck).

Great idea, just not sure we shouldn't have both options for tactical concerns.
 
This would make clear skies too powerful a counter to weather, and weather would be unplayable IMO. You just put in one clear skies and you counter all weathers in the entire match.
 
I know why people who play NR or S would like a buff but in terms of balancing it would only give factions like NR even more advantage. Clear Weather is a pretty useful card. I do think it works pretty well considering it's not silver or gold. The only reason why I removed it from my deck is that Dimeritium is more useful. A buffed Clear Sky should be a gold card from my point of view.
 
moljac024;n6868400 said:
This would make clear skies too powerful a counter to weather, and weather would be unplayable IMO. You just put in one clear skies and you counter all weathers in the entire match.

I think weather is extremely powerful, therefore the counter should also be powerful. Weather wouldn't be unplayable but it would take a lot more thought then it does now.

I guess I would be ok if they came out with a silver card called ultimate clear skies that returned the buffs. That, in addition to clear skies might balance it out. Regardless, this is how I feel until then.



--- Updated 03-11-16, 22:01 ---

Wasteland_Ghost;n6867730 said:
This "issue", IMO, is very close to Philippa's one :)



I think that keeping buffs only encourages greedy play instead of tactical play. You have lots of cards and lots of means to win the game, focusing on just the one trick makes you vulnerable to certain cards/decks/combos which is actually pretty normal for ccg and only makes the game better and more tactical.





I feel like when I am matched up against a buffing deck, similar to Hawker support, NR, etc. I am almost guaranteed the win. I feel like there is almost no thought process as clear skies isn't a threat to me. I can use my weather cards pretty aggressively as a result of that, even if I only have 1 per row. This would be a bad tactical play if there was a legitimate counter out there but there isn't.





I believe decks should focus on a main strategy but have a small back up plan if that strategy falls through. However, if you are matched up against a weather deck then your small back up plan becomes your main plan. If clear skies was buffed then the massive advantage for weather decks would be lessened. It would still come down to tactical decisions and when to play certain cards. Even so, I would suggest that weather decks will still have the advantage due to the amount of weather cards they would run. This small advantage is, like you said, pretty normal for CCGs.





They mentioned that more anti weather cards were coming out, if that's the case then I would be fine with this version of clear skies becoming a silver.









 
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I like your suggestion as you need some indications what you get back. Weather would still be strong if you would keep your buffs after clear skies.

The main reason i like NR is many cards are immun against weathereffects (if they turn gold or get promoted). I face at least 50% monsterdecks and still have weather cards as NR.
 
Clear skys defnitely needs a buff. There isn't much of a point of holding onto one when a weather card removes your buffs and then clear skys doesn't give you the buffs back.

Clear skys needs to be a hard counter to weather. Right now it isn't.
 
Treamayne;n6868360 said:
I think it would be great if a new weather card did this. I also think it would be advantageous to keep Clear Skies as is. This way, both options exist and decks can choose the one they prefer (there are times I want clear skies and being able to return units to original value and remove buffs - like a Skellige wounding deck).

Great idea, just not sure we shouldn't have both options for tactical concerns.


Yeah, agreed. A NEW card can do this, but Clear Skies can stay as it is. Devs have said new Weather Counters are coming, so let's wait and see first.
 
StrykerxS77x;n6872050 said:
CClear skys needs to be a hard counter to weather.

No, it really doesn't. A single bronze card should be the hard counter to a gold card, three silver cards and three bronze cards? No thanks.
 
Vellax;n6872480 said:
No, it really doesn't. A single bronze card should be the hard counter to a gold card, three silver cards and three bronze cards? No thanks.

You'll have to excuse me. I am really not sure what you are talking about. Clear skies and the weather cards are all bronze cards. IMO clear skies needs to be a hard counter to the weather cards because it's just about the ONLY counter players have and right now clear skies is hardly even worth it because you lose your buffs.



--- Updated 04-11-16, 00:31 ---

moljac024;n6868400 said:
This would make clear skies too powerful a counter to weather, and weather would be unplayable IMO. You just put in one clear skies and you counter all weathers in the entire match.



I don't really agree with this. How would one clear skies stop every weather card over one match? Clear skies returning your cards to their buffed state in one round would not break weather builds at all.



 
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StrykerxS77x;n6872540 said:
You'll have to excuse me. I am really not sure what you are talking about. Clear skies and the weather cards are all bronze cards.

Actually, I was wrong. You want it to be the perfect counter to one Leader, one Gold and four Silver, in addition to the three Bronze.

http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/40002-dagon
http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/50029-ragh-nar-roog
http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/50031-merigolds-hailstorm
http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/9-white-frost
http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/8-skellige-storm
http://www.gwentdb.com/cards/50034-aeromancy

No thanks.
 
Vellax;n6872850 said:

Honestly I don't think it would be a problem if did. Everything should really have some kind of counter and weather right now has just about nothing. Clear skies is the best way to deal with it and it doesn't even do a good job of that. On top of that if you don't get to use it then you wasted the slot completely. It's a bad card.

A weather deck can have more than 5 weather cards easily. One clear skies card isn't going to stop all of that weather, and who is seriously going to carry multiple clear skies? The card just isn't good enough.
 
Vellax;n6872850 said:

You are helping my point. There is no way clear skies will counter all of those cards, meaning weather decks will always have the advantage. This shows that even if I do have clear skies, the opponent will most likely have a follow up. This doesn't disprove my argument, it helps it.
 
So...not only do you expect Clear Skies to hard counter all those cards, but it should hard counter multiple uses of those cards? Seriously? If someone carries multiple weather cards, you think a single Clear Skies should counter all of them, no matter when they get used during the match? That's...ridiculous. The entire point of this game is having one more contingency plan than your opponent. If he has a weather strategy play, you counter it with a Clear Skies and then he has a follow up while you don't? Well he just outplayed you.
 
Yourfacetm;n6871390 said:
I feel like when I am matched up against a buffing deck, similar to Hawker support, NR, etc. I am almost guaranteed the win. I feel like there is almost no thought process as clear skies isn't a threat to me. I can use my weather cards pretty aggressively as a result of that, even if I only have 1 per row. This would be a bad tactical play if there was a legitimate counter out there but there isn't.
I'm a bit unlucky with Scoiatael cards so I still have mostly the basic ones, yet I was able to beat average weather control deck and lost just by one point to strong weather control deck. Having one card to play and all the others to buff this one card is bad anyways as it leaves you vulnerable to a lot of things. But having balance between units and buffs allows you to buff different units on different rows after a weather was played. Works well against basic and average weather decks, but not very well against powerful ultimate decks.

And this is the real problem, I think. Weather is a good counter to greedy buffing strategy not only in the monster weather deck. But an ultimate monster deck can have 1 gold + 4 silver + 3x3 bronze + 1 leader weather cards in their deck and still have enough units to play and win, since lots of them are immune to weather. Someone posted a gimmick weather control deck on reddit with only Eredin and Frightener being units and all the other cards being weather and removal. It's insane, but it wins!

So I don't think Clear Skies should be buffed, but I do think something should be done about amount of weather cards in one deck, particularly in monster deck, because an average deck doesn't benefit from that many weather cards.
 
Vellax;n6873660 said:
So...not only do you expect Clear Skies to hard counter all those cards, but it should hard counter multiple uses of those cards? Seriously? If someone carries multiple weather cards, you think a single Clear Skies should counter all of them, no matter when they get used during the match? That's...ridiculous. The entire point of this game is having one more contingency plan than your opponent. If he has a weather strategy play, you counter it with a Clear Skies and then he has a follow up while you don't? Well he just outplayed you.

​I have 4 effects to bring fog out on my opponent. I have 4 effects to bring out frost on my opponent. I have 2 effects that bring out rain on my opponent. Even if I flood the board with weather now and he uses clear skies, I still have a multitude of resources to play the weathers again. Not only do I outnumber him on resources but my cards also out power him since I can take away all of his buffs on any row with no way of being countered or played around. This is textbook for being problematic.

I don't have an issue with being outnumbered by weather, I do have an issue with losing all the buffs since even if I do have the clear skies, I basically lost everything I pumped with. You have a problem with frost, fog, and rain being countered by clear skies but have no issue with pumping a unit by 3, then 4, then a potion for 8 and then being reduced to 1 through rain ( a bronze card). Now, NOT ONLY is my card sitting at 1 strength, but if I did clear skies then my three cards I used to buff that unit are STILL completely nullified. How is this far? I lose out on three cards after you play a single bronze, weather card, even if I have the "counter".





--- Updated 04-11-16, 07:44 ---

Wasteland_Ghost;n6873730 said:
I'm a bit unlucky with Scoiatael cards so I still have mostly the basic ones, yet I was able to beat average weather control deck and lost just by one point to strong weather control deck. Having one card to play and all the others to buff this one card is bad anyways as it leaves you vulnerable to a lot of things. But having balance between units and buffs allows you to buff different units on different rows after a weather was played. Works well against basic and average weather decks, but not very well against powerful ultimate decks.



And this is the real problem, I think. Weather is a good counter to greedy buffing strategy not only in the monster weather deck. But an ultimate monster deck can have 1 gold + 4 silver + 3x3 bronze + 1 leader weather cards in their deck and still have enough units to play and win, since lots of them are immune to weather. Someone posted a gimmick weather control deck on reddit with only Eredin and Frightener being units and all the other cards being weather and removal. It's insane, but it wins!



So I don't think Clear Skies should be buffed, but I do think something should be done about amount of weather cards in one deck, particularly in monster deck, because an average deck doesn't benefit from that many weather cards.



How would you balance all of those weather cards though? I am ok with weather being a playstyle I just want there to be a counter. Weather is my main deck right now. If I were to enter a tournament right now, it would be my go to deck. That being said, I normally don't card what row you buff because I generally have the weather card to crush all those buffed units once I feel like its time to take the round. I again, am ok with this deck strategy but I do want a solid counter card. One that would punish me for passing too early. Or not removing your units while they are under weather. At the moment, I feel like nothing punishes me, other than the skillege deck that buffs original value. That is the only deck that can use clear skies to its full potential IMO.
 
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Yourfacetm;n6873820 said:
How would you balance all of those weather cards though?
That's the right question, but I suppose you should ask it to devs :) Personally, I don't like the idea of so many weather cards we currently have.

You yourself wrote how many weather cards you have in your deck. Making Clear Skies to restore all the buffs will make weather useless for all the other decks but Monster weather control while still not resolving a problem of monsters being able to play all types of weather again and again.

Even if we get a bronze countercard to prevent weather from being played it won't solve the problem of millions of weather cards in Monster deck. Something Promote like, but for making units weather-resistant could help here, I think.
 
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