A buff to clear skies

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Yourfacetm;n6873820 said:
I don't have an issue with being outnumbered by weather, I do have an issue with losing all the buffs since even if I do have the clear skies, I basically lost everything I pumped with. You have a problem with frost, fog, and rain being countered by clear skies but have no issue with pumping a unit by 3, then 4, then a potion for 8 and then being reduced to 1 through rain ( a bronze card). Now, NOT ONLY is my card sitting at 1 strength, but if I did clear skies then my three cards I used to buff that unit are STILL completely nullified. How is this far? I lose out on three cards after you play a single bronze, weather card, even if I have the "counter".

That's a reasonable point. Perhaps it just means that decks that do nothing but buff units extremely high and are vulnerable to multiple counters are just not very viable. This game is in its very early stages and plenty of decks that seem effective at first will turn out to be mediocre when the game gets more stable and players get better. Perhaps Buff decks are one of them.
 
Wasteland_Ghost;n6873730 said:
So I don't think Clear Skies should be buffed, but I do think something should be done about amount of weather cards in one deck, particularly in monster deck, because an average deck doesn't benefit from that many weather cards.

Maybe they shouldn't limit the amount of weather cards but instead they could start by removing double weather effects. I've played against quite a few monster opponents who would reuse rain for example when rain is already active. They were able to reset my buffs despite having buffed my cards again in the rain. Honestly, weather cards don't bother me much unless they're reused a lot which is easy for the monster deck since they have Gold/Sliver units that activate weather effects. If the devs could bring back the OG weather system, I think it would be perfect.
 
Wasteland_Ghost;n6867730 said:
I think that keeping buffs only encourages greedy play instead of tactical play.

Couldnt aggre more.

--- Updated 04-11-16, 12:12 ---

Yourfacetm;n6873820 said:
I don't have an issue with being outnumbered by weather, I do have an issue with losing all the buffs since even if I do have the clear skies,



I see how it could be a problem in buff dependent decks. But i don't think Clear skies should be changed the way you are suggesting it (Previous buffs + Current). It would make weathers close to worthless.
it would be extremly overpower to rework Clear skies this way and on top of that really hard to track unless there is a tracker of some sort.



The better idea in my opinion would be to add a card. (Most likely a silver) wich would reset the (A) card with all previous buff before the weather + eventual current(< even on one card it might be really overpower.).



Yourfacetm;n6873820 said:
Now, NOT ONLY is my card sitting at 1 strength, but if I did clear skies then my three cards I used to buff that unit are STILL completely nullified.



I don't have this logic. You opponent play a weather, he get X stg by debuffing yours right ? You use clear skies you get value while your opponent loose 1 card. Unless you don't play around weather + buffs + Clear Skies knowingly that you have to. I really don't understand the logic as if you have a clear skies and buff in hand why would you buff before getting your reset ?



Unless you're talking about buffs before a weather is pop. In wich case ignore the above.







Yourfacetm;n6873820 said:
"Skellige" That is the only deck that can use clear skies to its full potential IMO.



While i aggre with the full potential. I disagree again with the idea of Clear skies being worthless. You might not get back your buff, but maybe, just maybe you should have dispatch you buff more equally a cross numerous row ? Making the value of you clear skies higher. Just my opinion.




--- Updated 04-11-16, 12:16 ---

poopoo145;n6875060 said:
Maybe they shouldn't limit the amount of weather cards but instead they could start by removing double weather effects. I've played against quite a few monster opponents who would reuse rain for example when rain is already active. They were able to reset my buffs despite having buffed my cards again in the rain.



A good work around / fix would be to not reduce AGAIN if a weather is already in play. (Exception being if you use clear skies.)
 
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If more cards are coming there shouldn't be a problem ... a visual for your points you get back is still good. Weather is really powerful ... the reason spy cards don't exist in its old form has the same reason as i understand it. I would give weather cards only 4-5 turns and they disappear like a storm normally is gone after some time but weather is and was a big part of gwent as it is.
 
Vellax;n6873660 said:
So...not only do you expect Clear Skies to hard counter all those cards, but it should hard counter multiple uses of those cards? Seriously? If someone carries multiple weather cards, you think a single Clear Skies should counter all of them, no matter when they get used during the match? That's...ridiculous. The entire point of this game is having one more contingency plan than your opponent. If he has a weather strategy play, you counter it with a Clear Skies and then he has a follow up while you don't? Well he just outplayed you.

IMO two things should happen. 1) clear skies should restore cards to their buffed state which would make it a hard counter (only for that one play of course), Then clear skies should be added in as an ability for other cards JUST LIKE WEATHER IS RIGHT NOW. One reason clear skies sucks is because weather is so readily available built into awesome point cards. It would be ridiculous to have to carry 4 or 5 clear skies cards that have no point value whatsoever just to be able to efficiently counter weather.


--- Updated 04-11-16, 14:25 ---

bre3zer;n6875090 said:
I see how it could be a problem in buff dependent decks. But i don't think Clear skies should be changed the way you are suggesting it (Previous buffs + Current). It would make weathers close to worthless.

it would be extremly overpower to rework Clear skies this way and on top of that really hard to track unless there is a tracker of some sort.



I don't see how that could be true. Hardly anyone carries clear skies right now because they don't feel that they are worth it. Making them a bit better by giving the ability to restore buffs wouldn't even remotely make weather worthless. Weather decks have multiple weather cards. How the hell is one good hard counter card going to break all of those weathers? It would only be good for one good play and that's it. I don't know why people are so against a hard counter when weather has none right now.



 
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StrykerxS77x;n6876380 said:
Weather decks have multiple weather cards. How the hell is one good hard counter card going to break all of those weathers?
So you essentially proposing to limit weather cards usefulness to full weather control decks only?

StrykerxS77x;n6876380 said:
Then clear skies should be added in as an ability for other cards JUST LIKE WEATHER IS RIGHT NOW.
Looks like a good idea.
 
Wasteland_Ghost;n6877200 said:
So you essentially proposing to limit weather cards usefulness to full weather control decks only?
.

Weather cards could be potentially useful to pretty much any deck if you plan for it. Right now weather control decks are very hard to deal with (My strongest deck is weather control so I know). One clear skies card even if it as made better can't counter a weather control deck.
 
StrykerxS77x;n6876380 said:
Then clear skies should be added in as an ability for other cards

So, one or two Neutral versions of Archgriffin? (Maybe one row-dependent and one all-row)
 
StrykerxS77x;n6877270 said:
Weather cards could be potentially useful to pretty much any deck if you plan for it. Right now weather control decks are very hard to deal with (My strongest deck is weather control so I know). One clear skies card even if it as made better can't counter a weather control deck.
And this is exactly what I was talking about: a buff to clear skies will make weather useless for all decks but weather control and will not resolve the problem with weather control decks because of the insane amount of weather cards they can play.
 
Wasteland_Ghost;n6878130 said:
And this is exactly what I was talking about: a buff to clear skies will make weather useless for all decks but weather control and will not resolve the problem with weather control decks because of the insane amount of weather cards they can play.

This makes no sense to me at all. Please explain how clear skies being a hard counter to weather is going to ruin all weather cards?? Even with the buff not everyone is going to use clear skies or always have it drawn in a specific round. Weather would not be ruined in any way shape or form.

Monster decks with lots of weather still might be tough to deal with but the buffed clear skies card would at least give you a chance to win a big round. Right now clear skies is a joke.



--- Updated 04-11-16, 18:54 ---





Treamayne;n6877400 said:
So, one or two Neutral versions of Archgriffin? (Maybe one row-dependent and one all-row)



I was wondering why archgriffin is just for monsters. Monsters don't even really need it lol. Having something like that for the other factions would seem logical.



 
The idea of buffing Clear Skies, in the original post, is mine and I still think it deserves to be tested, before any conclusions.

But I also liked a lot the idea of limiting the reapplication of weather. And my suggestion to implement this is changing the Weather ability to:

"Set the strength of all non-gold units on both melee/range/siege rows to 1 AND TURN THEM RESISTANT TO WEATHER EFFECTS."

Meaning that, once a card is affected by weather, the player can buff it indefinitely despite of other weather card being played later.
Those cards would lose their resistance to weather, when they are removed from the battlefield, to hand, deck or graveyard.

The balance would be better than how it is today, but I still think Weather would be very powerful, because skilled players would wait until all buffs are played before playing their weather. Clear Skies would still be very weak as a last card to cancel weather.
 
StrykerxS77x;n6878550 said:
This makes no sense to me at all. Please explain how clear skies being a hard counter to weather is going to ruin all weather cards?? Even with the buff not everyone is going to use clear skies or always have it drawn in a specific round. Weather would not be ruined in any way shape or form. Monster decks with lots of weather still might be tough to deal with but the buffed clear skies card would at least give you a chance to win a big round. Right now clear skies is a joke.
OK. So OP proposed not to reset buffs, but keep them and restore them after Clear Sky is played. So if he has 100+ buffed trebuchets he will be able to regain all the power lost with simply playing Clear Sky. Say, he's playing against Monster weather control deck. Will it help him? Not at all, as even if he has three copies of Clear Skies, Monsters are able to play way more weather cards, so it doesn't really matter whether or not Clear Sky restores all the lost buffs or not. Now say I'm not playing weather control deck, but I still want to have an effective counter to greedy buffing strategy. Is it worth to have weather cards in my deck now? Certainly yes as it helps me to take out a lot of opponent's power in one turn. And if Clear Sky restores all the buffs, will it be worth it? Certainly no as my opponent probably has such powerful card if he's running greedy buffing deck and by playing it he will instantly restore all he lost. If I'm no weather control player, it doesn't worth having multiple weather cards in my deck, so any weather becomes useless for me as it's completely ineffective.

Is buffing one unit/row a good strategy? I don't think so. You need to spread your power and keep in mind different counters different opponents might have. Building a deck with just one trick in mind that is vulnerable to pretty much everything out there is not a good idea, even if having 100+ buffed unit with adrenaline looks tempting.
 
Wasteland_Ghost;n6878960 said:
OK. So OP proposed not to reset buffs, but keep them and restore them after Clear Sky is played. So if he has 100+ buffed trebuchets he will be able to regain all the power lost with simply playing Clear Sky. Say, he's playing against Monster weather control deck. Will it help him? Not at all, as even if he has three copies of Clear Skies, Monsters are able to play way more weather cards, so it doesn't really matter whether or not Clear Sky restores all the lost buffs or not. Now say I'm not playing weather control deck, but I still want to have an effective counter to greedy buffing strategy. Is it worth to have weather cards in my deck now? Certainly yes as it helps me to take out a lot of opponent's power in one turn. And if Clear Sky restores all the buffs, will it be worth it? Certainly no as my opponent probably has such powerful card if he's running greedy buffing deck and by playing it he will instantly restore all he lost. If I'm no weather control player, it doesn't worth having multiple weather cards in my deck, so any weather becomes useless for me as it's completely ineffective.

Is buffing one unit/row a good strategy? I don't think so. You need to spread your power and keep in mind different counters different opponents might have. Building a deck with just one trick in mind that is vulnerable to pretty much everything out there is not a good idea, even if having 100+ buffed unit with adrenaline looks tempting.

In regards to the trebuchets you have more options to stop that from happening than just clear skies. Damage the trebuchet as he buffs it and he shouldn't get anywhere near 100. Also even weather control decks aren't always going to have multiple copies of Rain in the same round. The clear skies has a much better chance of helping him with the proposed change.

Weather control decks = Monsters, and monsters are going to use weather regardless because it's built into the cards. You sound really afraid of buffing decks even though it's much harder for them to use their strategy versus all this weather when their only counter isn't even actually a counter. Why should anyone carry clear skies right now when using it at the right time might not even actually help? Again your argument that weather becomes useless doesn't make any sense. Monster decks don't even use plain old bronze weather cards most of the time. They use the gold and silver cards which synergize with the rest of the strategies. One clear skies card that actually counters the weather isn't going to make weather useless. If anything monsters decks would simply have to be more careful with when they play their weather because if they use all of them at once then the clear skies could take them all out at the same time. It would make more sense for them to to use one and try to bait it out.

Spreading your power doesn't mean much when a weather deck can cover every single row.
 
After playing my fair share of AD sco. I did notice something that doesn't make much sense. Or rather that make wather stronger than they should.

At the end of the round, a Clear Skies is played (You can hear the birds) And it does reset buff you might have pill on a Unit (For exemple in AD rush) affected by a weather.

I'm starting to think that this might be an issue that player are encountering about Weathers and didn't really realise how powerful it might be agaisn't the said decks who rely on buff.

However, i'm not too sure if removing the clear skies effect a the end of each round is a good idea. as it might conduct to AD rushes deck, being able to play around it too much (resulting in games for monster being really hard to win in some cases.

And by removing the clear skies effect i'm not saying, leaving the effect from one round to another. I'm talking to the effect wich reseting units to their base stg.
 
poopoo145;n6875060 said:
Maybe they shouldn't limit the amount of weather cards but instead they could start by removing double weather effects. I've played against quite a few monster opponents who would reuse rain for example when rain is already active. They were able to reset my buffs despite having buffed my cards again in the rain. Honestly, weather cards don't bother me much unless they're reused a lot which is easy for the monster deck since they have Gold/Sliver units that activate weather effects. If the devs could bring back the OG weather system, I think it would be perfect.

poopoo145;n6875060 said:
Maybe they shouldn't limit the amount of weather cards but instead they could start by removing double weather effects. I've played against quite a few monster opponents who would reuse rain for example when rain is already active. They were able to reset my buffs despite having buffed my cards again in the rain. Honestly, weather cards don't bother me much unless they're reused a lot which is easy for the monster deck since they have Gold/Sliver units that activate weather effects. If the devs could bring back the OG weather system, I think it would be perfect.

Yes, agreed.

I didn't even realize double weather was possible until I came up against a monster deck that did just that. It was already raining, and I actually swapped out my clear skies card (with the squirrel leader perk) thinking I was in good shape. (In fact, I wanted to specifically avoid clearing the sky in order to preserve my buffs). But even if I'd known how the mechanic worked, I'd still have been screwed because the only effective counter would have been to have cards of my own with weather immunity.

Weather right now is basically the exact same problem as Phillipa. It just manifests in a slightly less dramatic way. The whole premise of weather--and what makes it a potentially compelling mechanic--is that it affects both sides, but you can use it to your advantage by controlling when it's played. With double weather allowed, the strategy is lost and, instead, you're basically just spamming this really powerful ability that wipes out all your opponent's cards in a given row.
 
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