A Dev Team with CDPR Standards

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A Dev Team with CDPR Standards

Firstly, I know there is another thread that discusses Sui Generis, but that thread is focused on how the game looks. In this thread I'd like to discuss not how the game looks, but focus more on the development team behind the game.

I've been following the Kickstarter campaign for a game being developed by Bare Mettle Entertainment, Sui Generis, and participating on their official forums (which the devs are quite active on and post regularly). What surprises me the most about this dev team is how much they remind me of CDPR! They are a small team that is focusing on creating a quality product and supporting their fans. They are going to release Sui Generis with no DRM and with free DLC after release (they say they hate micro transactions and would only charge for an actual expansion). They are creating Sui Generis to be a mature game with actual choice and consequences that change the world around you (whether those consequences be good or bad). Any of this sound familiar?
 
An update:

Forbes recently did an interview with Madoc Evans, the project lead. Here are some quotes I found to be interesting:

You don’t do quests and get rewarded for completing them, there’s stuff going and you can get involved. You might actually lose more than you gain by doing so.

Update #12 is intended as an example of a game experience from the player character’s perspective. The events there are dynamic, based on player actions. An apparently simple premise can escalate into almost anything and by doing things you always discover more things to do and get more deeply involved. No content is isolated, there’s an open world and a single vast interconnected underworld rather than a series of small dungeons. Similarly with events, we want everything to be connected and affected by whatever you do or happens.

The main plot is essentially just an extension of this. Theoretically it would be possible to avert the entire affair by accidentally rolling a boulder off a cliff and this landing on the main antagonist. The player would then play the game and perhaps never realise there was supposed to be some big problem to solve. Of course in practice this is quite unlikely!

A lot of games promise character choice, dynamic outcomes, and so forth but this almost always turns out to be difficult to implement and few games do it well.

What sort of ideas do you have in regards to implementing this in the game? Do you think there’s a risk that an open-world game can be too open?


There’s no such thing as too open a world. This is not a game with a beggining, a middle and an end. It’s a world where you can do whatever you want and everything you do has permanent consequences. We won’t guide you, if you do something stupid like attack a castle or a group of thaumaturges on your own you’re just asking for it.

Basically what we’d do is take any “quest” or story element and break it down into its components, each component then has activating conditions that are as dynamic as possible. An NPC decision that is specific to a situation would still be subject to various weighted factors that support that decision, it would have to contend with other decisions, including general ones not specific to the situation, for priority. Each decision has associated risks and rewards that vary in dregrees and the NPC’s personal characteristics or mood also weigh in...
...This is not a game where you rush through killing enemies and clicking on highlighted items, it’s a game where you can spend a significant time in every location, looking for keys hidden under objects, hidden switches, journals that may contain important clues, that sort of thing. Even a peasant’s home could hold some dark secrets.

You can read the entire interview here: LINK
 
Sirnaq said:
Eh cdpr is not that small anymore.

I realize this. But I also remember being on these forums before CDPR released The Witcher 1. They were an untested, small indie development team that almost nobody had heard of :cool:
 
freakie1one said:
I realize this. But I also remember being on these forums before CDPR released The Witcher 1. They were an untested, small indie development team that almost nobody had heard of :cool:/>/>/>

I don't think so; they were well known in Central Europe, having been in game publishing since 1994. And it was 5 years from the time CD Projekt Red was founded to the time The Witcher was released.

You can't do the manner of quality work that takes 5 years to get right on money you raised from Kickstarter. You need a parent with deep pockets and the patience that comes from having an established profitable trade.

So, no, until Bare Mettle produces something, the comparison is no comparison but merely the kind of talk that anybody who thinks they know what makes a good game can talk.
 
GuyN said:
I don't think so; they were well known in Central Europe, having been in game publishing since 1994. And it was 5 years from the time CD Projekt Red was founded to the time The Witcher was released.

You can't do the manner of quality work that takes 5 years to get right on money you raised from Kickstarter. You need a parent with deep pockets and the patience that comes from having an established profitable trade.

So, no, until Bare Mettle produces something, the comparison is no comparison but merely the kind of talk that anybody who thinks they know what makes a good game can talk.

Yes, they were well known as a publisher. I'm sure you're aware that being a publisher does not give you credentials or a reputation as a competent game developer. The Witcher 1 was their first game and as a developer they were untested until after its release. Just as Bare Mettle isn't a competent game developer until proven otherwise (by an actual release).

The engine created by Madoc has been licensed already to other companies. The Bare Mettle team isn't going to start developing the game if they have a successful Kickstarter launch, since the game has already been in development for over a year. What the Kickstarter project will do is allow the team to quit their full-time jobs and focus primarily on creating Sui Generis.

And I wasn't saying they were similar to CDPR in regards to their financial situation, I was pointing out they're similar in their ideas and philosophies when it comes to game design and how to treat your fans (no DRM and no micro-transactions). Instead of using DRM they say they believe in making a quality product that fans will want to buy.

Also, they've released several videos showing actual gameplay and their design tools for creating the game. They're not just saying "we can do this, take our word for it!". It's more along the lines of "we have already created the engine, toolsets, physics engine, etc. necessary to create the game we want to make... now we need funding to do this in a timely fashion".
 

Guest 2091327

Guest
I have pretty solid belief in this project too, but it looked impossible they would make the cut. With 13 hours remaining they lack £13,000. Still tough to make it, but it's within the realms of the possible now. I bloody well hope it gets a solid increase at the end so this can become a reality. It sounds so promising. Just a shame the info from this interview and some of the stuff they have said on their own forum (I've quoted some of it previously) wasn't released about 4 weeks ago. They've still barely said a word about the story. There's protecting your ideas, and there's being too stubborn about it to your own demise. They've bordered pretty damn close to the latter category.

Anyway, I REALLY hope they get over the hill so this game can become a reality. It has great potential :)
 
GuyN said:
So, no, until Bare Mettle produces something, the comparison is no comparison but merely the kind of talk that anybody who thinks they know what makes a good game can talk.

Some examples of what they've produced:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvZchE30StQ[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqaRqih7Cuw[/media]
 
Pangaea said:
I have pretty solid belief in this project too, but it looked impossible they would make the cut. With 13 hours remaining they lack £13,000. Still tough to make it, but it's within the realms of the possible now. I bloody well hope it gets a solid increase at the end so this can become a reality. It sounds so promising. Just a shame the info from this interview and some of the stuff they have said on their own forum (I've quoted some of it previously) wasn't released about 4 weeks ago. They've still barely said a word about the story. There's protecting your ideas, and there's being too stubborn about it to your own demise. They've bordered pretty damn close to the latter category.

Anyway, I REALLY hope they get over the hill so this game can become a reality. It has great potential :)

Have you read the story update? They posted several short stories giving examples of how "quests" (for lack of a better word) would play out. I found it rather interesting and it helped to flesh-out their concepts a bit more.
 

Guest 2091327

Guest
Yes, I read the writing update (have read all updates), and that was pretty good. They've said next to nothing about the story though, which is very important in kickstarters for this type of game - especially when they say it's so unique. I *think* it is, but we don't really have anything to go by. This interview helps a little in that regard, but it's this type of information they should have released weeks ago. That way the game would look less like a tech demo and more like an actual game. I just hope it isn't too late to still make the 150,000 goal.
 
Pangaea said:
Yes, I read the writing update (have read all updates), and that was pretty good. They've said next to nothing about the story though, which is very important in kickstarters for this type of game - especially when they say it's so unique. I *think* it is, but we don't really have anything to go by. This interview helps a little in that regard, but it's this type of information they should have released weeks ago. That way the game would look less like a tech demo and more like an actual game. I just hope it isn't too late to still make the 150,000 goal.

Agreed! Like I said in my first post, the design choices remind me quite a bit of The Witcher games (dark, mature, harsh world where your actions actually have consequences) and CDPR in general. It would be great to see the Kickstarter succeed but they've said the game will be made regardless, which I suppose is good news!
 
I'm impressed by the engine and the fact that it was made by one dude. If I'm not mistaken. But honestly, the aesthetics are a bit dull. Yes it all looks nice compared to todays standard but damn, where's the colour? Where's the contrast? Every detail seems to bleed together into one giant dark brown or grey mess. Though that could be because they don't have a level designer.

I don't know. I'm not really that interested in them. I'm a guy who prefers narrative above all else. They did not capture my interest by presenting a 10 minute video on the engine. Now if they'd explained that they have one of the greatest, most innovative, interactive story ever conceived! Well, then we'd be in business. But graphics and all that. That's not enough to hype me up.

Again, I'm impressed by what the guy has done and I wish him/them all much luck in pursuing their passions but I'll be skipping this one. I am pretty intrigued by Shadowrun Returns though.
 
FoggyFishburne said:
I'm a guy who prefers narrative above all else. They did not capture my interest by presenting a 10 minute video on the engine. Now if they'd explained that they have one of the greatest, most innovative, interactive story ever conceived! Well, then we'd be in business.

Did you read the Forbes interview I posted earlier? If they can accomplish even half of what they're attempting to do it will be the most awesome story experience I've had in an RPG There will be a main plotline to the game but it just won't unfold in the typical "hold your hand" progession we've seen in most RPGs.

The main video not explaining enough about the story is the number one complaint they've had about their Kickstarter project and Madoc admits it could have been done better.

Here's some narrative written about the Sui Generis world:

They say we built cities in the sky.

The histories say we made great things, once. White pillars that never tarnished. Great monuments, and greater cities around them. We lived in tranquility. Somehow, everything changed. None can tell what the ancestors did to anger the Gods... to make them poison the water, and curse the skies.

That was lifetimes ago, so far gone that no one remembers how or even where it may have been. Others say that’s only fairy stories. That things have always been such as they are. That our ancestors scraped in the dirt just as we do today, and dreamed of greater things around the nighttime fires... just as we do today.

Myself, I couldn’t guess. I dream of walking the hills without need of a sword, of falling to sleep without setting traps against the night. Beyond that, I suppose I don’t much care.

They say we built cities in the sky... I’ll settle for travelling without looking over my shoulder, or wondering what hides within the evening mist.



___________________



The three most ill-advised words in our language are “I’ll do it”.

"I'll do it." I said.

"Only to collect some pewter. Perhaps silver, deeper in. It's quite safe," he'd said.

"Oh, is it? Is it really?"

Of course it wasn’t. The deceit was obvious; it leaked out of him like sweat. Despite his disingenuous manner I was still tempted. No one had ever suggested venturing into the underworld might be safe, damned curiosity always did have the better of me.

Indeed the entrance was not sealed and once within I could already see the glow of those ancient lamps that never expire. As I entered I failed to check my footing and kicked something that rolled away, bouncing against the wall several feet away. Echoes faded slowly while I stood rooted to the floor, waiting. No further sounds, no movement... nervously, I looked to the ground. It was one of the lamps, inert after someone had attempted to take it.

As I traveled further down the dim corridor, the sweet and fetid smell of death reached me. Perhaps an animal sought shelter and died here? The best possible outcome. The stench lead me on nonetheless, and as the corridor opened into a large hall I caught sight of a mangled body. My esteemed employer’s cousin no doubt. Away on business indeed.

Dark corridors led away from the hall to both sides. Ahead I could see a room that looked to be a dining hall. Pewter tableware lay clearly in sight. Certainly if I hoped to find silver I would have to venture further...

* * *

My skin prickled, the hairs on my arms stood on end. I could hear a faint hum coming from behind the wall. Some ancient power? The solid stonework felt impassable, but I did notice one small block protruding unusually. I checked to see if it was loose, and it sunk into the wall as if drawn from the opposite side. A grinding metallic sound startled me, and I took an involuntary step back as a deep rumble began, somewhere beyond the wall. Dust rose from the masonry and soon the entire wall began to shift, sliding into gap in the passage. Beyond, a purplish light shined from within a shallow hall. The grinding noise stopped, leaving my ears ringing. I stepped carefully into the space, following the smaller passage a short distance.

As I rounded a corner I could see corridor ended in a wall of what seemed to be thick purple smoke and water at the same time. I approached it warily and extended my hand to touch it. It tickled my hand but offered little resistance...

What happened next may never be clear to me, but suddenly I found myself elsewhere. Dimly lit white walls stained with mouldy growths stood on either side of me, and a strange unrelenting noise was just barely audible. A flash like that of lightning illuminated the dark corridor ahead, and I caught a glimpse of a monstrous white shape before the light failed.

Fearfully, I looked behind me. The walls ended into rough hewn rock only a few feet away. The passage I’d come through was gone. I drew my sword and waited for the shape to leap at me from the darkness.... nothing came. I could hear no sound but that strange quiet noise. Fighting down a rising sense of panic, I cautiously advanced down the corridor. My hands sweating, I gripped my sword, poised to strike at an invisible assailant. Ahead, swirling mists caught glimmers of light. Inch by inch, I forced myself to continue. I feared I saw shadows but nothing resolved itself in the faint and shifting mist. A wide open space lay ahead, dim light converging from various directions. As I stepped into the space I moved to my left, hoping to find a wall. My hand touched something wet and warm... a terrible, howling screech sounded in my ear, slimy goblets of liquid hit my face.... a sharp pain and hotness surrounded my neck and enveloped me.

* * *

I awoke in bright sunlight on a smooth circular stone, coughing and spewing a foul white liquid. I could barely lift my head, and my hands shook uncontrollably. I was poisoned. What of the things I’d seen? The poison had apparently induced a terrible nightmare. The man in the marketplace must have done this. My possessions were gone... he must’ve robbed me, that rotten bastard.
I suppose I still do not know what lies within the underworld. The things I saw were surely a product of the poison, but when I look upon those ominous doorways now, memories come unbidden and I cannot stop the shivers of fear.



___________________



“Demons! Easily four or five of them!”

Shouts and catcalls drowned out the old man as soon as he began. I looked over my shoulder, hoping the noise would abate... sadly, no joy. The old man rose from his seat by the fire and thumped the table, roaring for his companions to be quiet, and they mostly did so. He stared down the last of the grumbling, eyes drawn into an angry squint made comical by the chaos of his beard and hair. When all was finally calm around him, he began again.

“Demons! Easily four or five of them...”

“Demon’s Brew, I’d say” someone yelled from the back of the room.

“Damn your tongue, Baren!” the old one growled, glaring again at a few souls bold enough to laugh. I turned back to my meal. The fare in this wayside tavern was tolerable, by which I mean it was hot and probably made from a beast whose name I knew. More than that would be too much to ask, this far from the city. I ate slowly, mechanically... bored and tired, worn thin by the long walk through rough country.

Perhaps it was the hour, or the smoke, or perhaps I’m the world’s biggest fool, but by degrees I found myself listening to the old man’s yarn. Clearly told before, it had the cadence of something well rehearsed. The mutilated livestock, the family dog vanished in the night. The shadow at the window. The scratches on the doorpost. The groaning bellows from afar. The night watches kept, blade close to shaking hand. The faint, otherworldly bluish glow as something passed through the trees...

“Wait,” I said, turning around. The word was out of my mouth before I’d forethought enough to bottle it in.

“Who spoke?” the old man demanded. I’d broken the spell he was weaving, and even now many were turning away.

I stood.

“You cried ‘wait’?” he asked, frowning.

“I did. When did you claim to see these demons?”

“Barely a week since I moved aught I cared for into my sister’s house here in the village. She said-”
“And you said you saw blue? Moonlight, perhaps?” I spoke quietly, listening for the lie in his voice.

“Never moonlight, no. Not a question of being moonlight. It was unnatural!”, he said at once.

I made no reply. This yarn was hardly rehearsed, I thought. It was remembered.

“Are you offering your assistance, young stranger?” the old man asked after a moment.
“Will you go out to my farm and show this lot that old Cory’s an honest man?”

Blame the hour, or the smoke from a fire burned down to coals. Call me the world's biggest fool, but I only paused for an instant before answering.

“I’ll do it.”
 
@Pangaea:

Only 1,500GBP needed and the project is successfully funded with 6 hours to go. Looks like your wish might come true ;)
 

Guest 2091327

Guest
Aaah, most excellent. Went to the website now and it's on £149,900. I think they may make it with 6 hours to go ;)/> :D/>

Often there is a massive spike at the end, but I honestly hadn't thought they would make it when they were only half-way there a few days ago.

aaaaand there it is! :)
 
Pangaea said:
Aaah, most excellent. Went to the website now and it's on £149,900. I think they may make it with 6 hours to go ;) :D

Often there is a massive spike at the end, but I honestly hadn't thought they would make it when they were only half-way there a few days ago.

aaaaand there it is! :)

Hell yes! The future is bright
 
I love isometric view for games so I wish this title the best. The combat does look somewhat awkward though.
 
slimgrin said:
I love isometric view for games so I wish this title the best. The combat does look somewhat awkward though.

Yes, I agree. The engine, toolset, animations etc. were all programmed by one man who was also working a full-time job. They've stated that hiring a professional animator is one of their top priorities :)
 

Guest 2091327

Guest
I know many have focused on it, but the animations haven't bothered me. It's rare for kickstarters to even have actual game photage, so things like that will get sorted out. I'm more interested in how it will play. It seems to give the player a much more active role than what is typical for classic RPGs. It sounds a bit more like what I heard was the gameplay in "A war of Roses".

Most of all, I'm intrigued by what kind of story it has, and how free we are to do what we want. Have my hopes up that the game can take ROLE-playing to a new level. Hopefully it'll be easy to get the game later too, for those of us who don't pledge to kickstarters but want to see how it all pans out first. I'm hoping a lot of these games will find their way to GOG :)
 
Pangaea said:
I know many have focused on it, but the animations haven't bothered me. It's rare for kickstarters to even have actual game photage, so things like that will get sorted out. I'm more interested in how it will play. It seems to give the player a much more active role than what is typical for classic RPGs. It sounds a bit more like what I heard was the gameplay in "A war of Roses".

Most of all, I'm intrigued by what kind of story it has, and how free we are to do what we want. Have my hopes up that the game can take ROLE-playing to a new level. Hopefully it'll be easy to get the game later too, for those of us who don't pledge to kickstarters but want to see how it all pans out first. I'm hoping a lot of these games will find their way to GOG :)

Yes; the role-playing possibilites, the unrestricted story/freedom, the physics-based dynamic combat, their devotion to realism and avoiding immersion breaking mechanics all sound like the ultimate combination for an RPG! I pledged for a tier that included alpha access, beta access and access to the insider forums and videos so I'll be sure to keep you updated :)

I'll also shoot Madoc a PM about GOG and make sure he's aware of it as an option.
 
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