A good Cyberpunk game. When?

[jkl320]

When I think RPG, I think complex ruleset systems, long 100h+ main story lines... Ballers Gate 1 and 2 and expansions, Neverwinter Nights 1 and expansions, Planescape Torment, Witcher 1, Gothic 1, Final Fantasy 8, 9 and Tactics, Pillars Of Eternity 1 and 2, Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion, Tactics Ogre, Vampire Bloodlines, Witcher 1 Enhanced, Knights of The Old Republic, Persona 4 and 5, Dragon Age Origins... these games come to mind, some more linear, some with many branching paths... but all with many complex and deep characters, LONG competing and detailed stories, tons of world building lore... they were a JOURNEY, a long odyssey, full of struggles and took hundreds of hours to finish. That's what comes to mind when I think "good RPG".

Now when people say "open world" my favorite ones are "open hubs" like Shemnue and Yakuza series, full of side quests and activities, mini games, a small ~ medium sized world but full of immersion and interaction. Those are the best open worlds to me.

When I think what Cyberpunk 2077 was supposed to be: a mix of Deus Ex Human Revolution / Metal Gear 4 "tactical action" gameplay mixed with a classic long competing deep RPG and medium but fully interactive open world, and maybe some hints of GTA V here and there because drivable cars and city. To me that's what was advertised all along.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

The world needs more classic long RPG journeys : (

It is a different thing to make the text RPG like "Ballers Gate 1 and 2 and expansions, Neverwinter Nights 1 and expansions, Planescape Torment, Final Fantasy 8, 9 and Tactics, Pillars Of Eternity 1 and 2, Tactics Ogre..." and the full-fledged AAA next-gen massive narrative driven story RPG game with voiced dialogues, strong art-direction, facial animations, modern game design, and open world with crazy simulation. You cant have it all. You may play those old games, or wait for an old-school indie games with text and without facial animations. Or play the sandbox games - the best bet is Bethesda's and Rockstar's games - TES6, Starfield, RDR2, GTA6 and so on. May be the Larian with "Ballers Gate 3". But thats it - the days of an "AAA" old school RPGs are over. Or try to make one yourself, or atleast invest $ 600,000,000 to the development of such game. But no, you want the "perfect" game specially for you for 60$.

 

[faverodefavero]

It is a different thing to make the text RPG like "Ballers Gate 1 and 2 and expansions, Neverwinter Nights 1 and expansions, Planescape Torment, Final Fantasy 8, 9 and Tactics, Pillars Of Eternity 1 and 2, Tactics Ogre..." and the full-fledged next-gen massive narrative driven story game with voiced dialogues, strong art-direction, facial animations, modern game design, and open world with crazy simulation. You cant have it all. You may play those old games, or wait for an old-school indie games with text and without facial animations. Or play the sandbox games - the best bet is Bethesda's and Rockstar's games - TES6, Starfield, RDR2, GTA6 and so on. May be the Larian with "Ballers Gate 3". But thats it - the days of an "AAA" old school RPGs are over.

Why not? Clearly there is a market for that, otherwise Skyrim would never have sold so well nor RPGs like FFXV... they both are just a couple examples of AAA games that TRIED to be extra compelling long RPG stories with all the best graphical capabilities of their time, fully voice acted. Again: just two more modern examples of games that tried to bring classic RPG experiences in some way to modern standards.

Also, if you take Knights Of The Old Republic and Dragon Age Origins as two older examples: both were fully voice acted huge AAA games of their time, and both delivered a classic RPG experience not so long ago.

Both Pillars of Eternity games were amazing examples and great crowdfunding campaigns.

Clearly there is a more mature paying audience for said kind of game. There is profit to be made, developers just have to make it right.
Either way, Cyberpunk 2077 is neither a good "Witcher 3" in a Cyberpunk 2020/RED setting nor is it a good competing classic RPG experience and it totally fails as an open world big game (GTA) or medium open world game (Yakuza). So what we are left with is an OK short story, some well writen but short sidequests and an OK shooter, that's all.

The graphics when everything works and not bugs out are amazing, the city scenario is incredible. But it's all so empty and without purpose, especially for a 2020 game, and while it's incredible to look at, the game and engine are clearly very new and poorly optimized... it shouldn't require as much power as it does to run at an acceptable frame rate.

 

[KhalifHaziq]

How long will it take to have a GOOD Cyberpunk themed open world branching paths RPG game?

I'm talking real Cyberpunk, 80s Anime style kind of setting, combustion engine cars, zero science fiction stuff but 100% true Cyberpunk (think Akira, Ghost In The Shell, Bubblegum Crisis). Cyberpunk 2020 / RED is really just all of that I described in it's origins, a great scenario and RPG ruleset and deserved better, a shame now the IP is CDPR restricted.

I want something with the open world IA and polish of GTA V, gameplay of modern Deus Ex games but harder and better, interaction, side activities and immersion of Yakuza / Shenmue, quality of writing, main characters and side quests from Witcher 3, and a good RPG ruleset with hardcore RPG mechanics and custom character development and skill specialization all with a Cyberpunk theme, attitude and overall disregard for censorship and political correctness but at the same time embracing differences and sexual freedom as commonplace.

Drugs, alcohol, sex and nudity overload, ultra violence, existentialism crisis, mechanical implants, artificial intelligence, 80s future technology mixed with current and old technology... all this together is what makes Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk. Game directors should keep it mind, and maybe watch 80s Cyberpunk anime to absorb the whole true vibe regularly while making such a game.

I believe this game can and should be done. There are already examples of similar games in other settings already... but now that CDPR dropped the ball I doubt anyone else will try making such a dream game.

So, that's the discussion: how long (more) you guys think it'll take for us the get such a game delivered by any developer?

Cyberpunk 2077 is awesome.

I would just like to highlight a few features that would be great to be added or improve in the game

1) Advanced Mini Map - Able to know when to turn, so that the map informed us earlier, so we do not miss any turn

2) Customization Apartment - Throughout my playthrough for this game, I went back to my apartment only 2 or 3 times. It be great to add some content maybe customization options

3) Customization Vehicles - Since the game has an in-depth photo mode option, it be great to have Vehicle customization, so that player can show off their own rides

4) Mini game - Include several mini games to interact with. Example gambling, pool, Swimming, Golf, Arcade games or etc

5) Advanced Police System - Probably remove the spawn cops, instead implement the same concept as GTA. It be cool if we were chase by Arasaka Forces

6) Radio - Switch between song - There are songs that i liked, so it would be nice if we can switch songs instead of the Radio station

7) NPC AI and Physics - Improve the overall response and interaction with the NPC

8) Buildings Accessible - To add more immersion to the game, more buildings should be accessible, i found out that that several buildings can be access only by the Main or Side Quest.

9) Apartment PC - We could check out the latest trend fashion, in which we can order the clothes through the website. Make the PC in our apartment to have more interaction

10) Purchased Apartment - Not sure if they will be added in the DLC, hopefully it will

 

[jkl320]

Why not? Clearly there is a market for that, otherwise Skyrim would never have sold so well nor RPG like FFXV... they both TRIED to be extra competing long RPG stories with all the best graphical capabilities of their time, fully voice acted and both sold very well. Just two examples of games that tried to bring classic RPG experiences in some way to modern standards.

Either way, Cyberpunk 2077 is neither a good "Witcher 3" in a Cyberpunk 2020/RED setting nor is it a good competing classic RPG experience and it totally fails as an open world big game (GTA) or medium open world game (Yakuza). So what we are left with is an OK short story, some well writen but short sidequests and an OK shooter, that's all.

The graphics when everything works and dont

FFXV is a niche game - bad simulations, questionable story and characters, not the best visual design and gameplay. Skyrim is a sandbox "entertain yourself - game". You cant make the next gen Skyrim-esque game from scratch. Only Bethesda able to do it with all of that experience, tech, Name and money needed. So wait for TES6 then, if you liked the TES5. If you want the game form the fresh studio - it will be an indie-minigame. Or generator-based boring openworld. Game development is insanely expensive. You need a BIG name for investors to invest in your game. And you need to prove to them that you can make the game within a reasonable time frame and your game will be profitable.

 

[claudiu111]

When did Cyberpunk 2077 Start Development? - Gamer Journalist

Ok, a link to a journalist page. So what? There are many similar sites and all have different data on them.
Check IGN for example: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/0...earnest-until-after-witcher-3-hearts-of-stone
This proves nothing.
Development starts before you announce the game. If they didn't assign enough staff members at the beginning, again it's their fault.
In essence it's been 8 years of development.

 

[faverodefavero]

Not saying I am a fan of FFXV but it has incredible graphics in terms of raw quality (not talking artistic direction) a huge open beautiful world and sold very well. So it can be done.

Hell, if Star Citizen (again: NOT a fan) can acquire so much out of crowdfunding alone (and much more via publishers and sponsors)... then there clearly is an audience for more mature complex, deep and competing hardcore gaming roleplay experiences. Not that Star Citizen is a classic RPG, but it shares much of the same audience whom appreciates classic RPG experiences and would gladly pay for a great one in a Cyberpunk universe, that's my point with this paragraph.

FFXV is a niche game - bad simulations, questionable story and characters, not the best visual design and gameplay. Skyrim is a sandbox "entertain yourself - game". You cant make the next gen Skyrim-esque game from scratch. Only Bethesda able to do it with all of that experience, tech, Name and money needed. So wait for TES6 then, if you liked the TES5. If you want the game form the fresh studio - it will be an indie-minigame. Or generator-based boring openworld. Game development is insanely expensive. You need a BIG name for investors to invest in your game. And you need to prove to them that you can make the game within a reasonable time frame and your game will be profitable.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

Ok, a link to a journalist page. So what? There are many similar sites and all have different data on them.
Check IGN for example: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/0...earnest-until-after-witcher-3-hearts-of-stone
This proves nothing.

I started to follow the game ever since the very first CG teaser trailer...

 

[claudiu111]

Not saying I am a fan of FFXV but it has incredible graphics in terms of raw quality (not talking artistic direction) a huge open beautiful world and sold very well. So it can be done.

Hell, if Star Citizen (again: NOT a fan) can acquire so much our of crowdfunding alone... then there clearly is an audience for more mature complex, deep and competing hardcore gaming roleplay experiences. Not that Star Citizen is a classic RPG, but it shares much of the same audience whom appreciates classic RPG experiences and would gladly pay for a great one in a Cyberpunk universe, that's my point with this paragraph.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

I started to follow the game ever since the very first CG teaser trailer...

So did I

 

[faverodefavero]

Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind is the base for all Bethesda games after it, in terms of engine and world interaction as well as game structure. Amazing game that was built from thw ground up.

While I don't like modern Bethesda and Skyrim much, I did liked playing Oblivion and Morrowind a lot.

Morrowind cost less than 30 milion USD$ and less than six years to make.

And when launched was a massive sales hit and critical scuess.

Point to a this, games with many small hubs full of quests and dialogues and true dynamic NPCs, etc., are "doable" from the ground up when you have enough money, time and manpower, and CDPR had all of those and still couldn't even make that (let alone much more that was promissed). And I would love to see such kind of a game in a Cyberpunk 2020/2033/RED setting, me and many other buyers hoped CP2077 would be just that but mixed with other elements and insteed of a world with many cities we would have a huge city with many small "hubs".

Come to think of it, having small hubs for quest giving (hidden sidequests without starting quest map markers) and interaction / dialogue / important NPC / etc. all trough out the city, say for example in bars and small street sections would do wonders for CP2077 immersion. Player would know that said small areas would be worth to visit every so often from time to time to talk to every NPC and unlocking new quests and lore rich dialogue as well as participating side activities and mini games within said hubs.

 

[Rhyzur]

I have very strong criticism for the censorship. The very first patches after release were to censor nudity and it wasn't even in the patch description. There has been no contact from CDPR about any of this going on either other than the ugly underwear that they placed you in was indeed intentional. Since, they have then filtered out all adult slowly but surely to a watered down PG-13 while keeping the sliders for adult settings like a mocking joke.
I still enjoy the game, but this still makes me frustrated. I paid for a mature game. I expect mature content does not get shadow patched out, yet here we are.

 

[faverodefavero]

I have very strong criticism for the censorship. The very first patches after release were to censor nudity and it wasn't even in the patch description. There has been no contact from CDPR about any of this going on either other than the ugly underwear that they placed you in was indeed intentional. Since, they have then filtered out all adult slowly but surely to a watered down PG-13 while keeping the sliders for adult settings like a mocking joke.
I still enjoy the game, but this still makes me frustrated. I paid for a mature game. I expect mature content does not get shadow patched out, yet here we are.

Game as is is PG13 for sure. Witcher 2 and 3 had less censorship and better sex scenes than this game.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

As it is right now I truly wouldn't mind if they kept this version all as is and re released the game in 6~12 months from now, Square Enix FFXIV style. I would actually be happy if CDPR announced something like that (plans to re release the game completely revamped).

SE pulled it off with much less resources and staff and made a great game that saved the whole company from bankruptcy all in less than a year.

 

[warbaby2]

Probably never, given that real RPG video games seem to be on the decline. It seems like what most people want is choose-your-own-adventure, not actual role-play.

To be fair, actual RPGs - complex systems, deep choices, etc. - have been incredibly rare since the late 90'ies. They had a bit of a revival in the last couple of years, but not from AAA studios. There have been exceptions - New Vegas, comes to mind - but by and large, actual RPGs are still considered more or less niche and risky.

 

[SeabiscuitV]

I guess when Rockstar Games decides to make a cyberpunk game, GTA 20 in the year 2077

 

[keghi11]

Cyberpunk 2077 give me Bladerunner, Ghost In The Shell and Alita vibes. I love the world in Cyberpunk 2077, it might sounds greedy for me to say this but I wanted more from Cyberpunk 2077. It's very immersive if I walk on the street like normal pedestrian, but it just that. The world doesn't feel connected or empty because the lack of interaction with the Night City itself. I wanted Night City to feel alive and have connection to V.

 

[rednhax]

I m also blown away by Cyberpunk 2077, multiple times per play sessions.

For my taste, the Cyberpunk story is filled with twist and turns and keeps surprising me and I have not completed it yet, because I m too busy doing the side quest, leveling up my character(s) and crafting ... ect

The mood in the game has a way of keeping me on the edge of my seat as well.

I m in no rush to complete the story at all, I m experiencing the different types of game play available in the game and learning from them. I started off with a Nomad, assault type character, then started a Corpo Samurai type Katana fighter. Still plan on role playing a Cyber freak with Mantis blades and a net runner, etc

Because role play is not really about doing quest in a game, it is how you approach the game. Back in the day, we played these games with dices and had to use our imagination, something that the younger generation seemed to have lost!

Speaking of imagination, I heard of people doing Parkour, I, myself have been wasting a lot of time finding things to jump that motorcycle off of

I m not saying the game is perfect, but it just came out, once it has reach the maturity(DLC, expansion) the other games its being compared to have received, then it will be fair to compare it.

 

[Patricia_Elaine_Jo]

Probably never, given that real RPG video games seem to be on the decline. It seems like what most people want is choose-your-own-adventure, not actual role-play.

True, a lot of people want choices. But there aren't a lot of games with a lot of that either, though.

 

[Rhyzur]

I guess when Rockstar Games decides to make a cyberpunk game, GTA 20 in the year 2077

20? They'll still be on GTA VI. GTA VII might be in development.

 

[Mario_Szabo]

How long will it take to have a GOOD Cyberpunk themed open world branching paths RPG game?

I'm talking real Cyberpunk, 80s Anime style kind of setting, combustion engine cars, zero science fiction stuff but 100% true Cyberpunk (think Akira, Ghost In The Shell, Bubblegum Crisis). Cyberpunk 2020 / RED is really just all of that I described in it's origins, a great scenario and RPG ruleset and deserved better, a shame now the IP is CDPR restricted.

I want something with the open world IA and polish of GTA V, gameplay of modern Deus Ex games but harder and better, interaction, side activities and immersion of Yakuza / Shenmue, quality of writing, main characters and side quests from Witcher 3, and a good RPG ruleset with hardcore RPG mechanics and custom character development and skill specialization all with a Cyberpunk theme, attitude and overall disregard for censorship and political correctness but at the same time embracing differences and sexual freedom as commonplace.

Drugs, alcohol, sex and nudity overload, ultra violence, existentialism crisis, mechanical implants, artificial intelligence, 80s future technology mixed with current and old technology... all this together is what makes Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk. Game directors should keep it mind, and maybe watch 80s Cyberpunk anime to absorb the whole true vibe regularly while making such a game.

I believe this game can and should be done. There are already examples of similar games in other settings already... but now that CDPR dropped the ball I doubt anyone else will try making such a dream game.

So, that's the discussion: how long (more) you guys think it'll take for us the get such a game delivered by any developer?

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/702357-i-know-that-feel-bro

Feel with ya..

 

[faverodefavero]

To be fair, actual RPGs - complex systems, deep choices, etc. - have been incredibly rare since the late 90'ies. They had a bit of a revival in the last couple of years, but not from AAA studios. There have been exceptions - New Vegas, comes to mind - but by and large, actual RPGs are still considered more or less niche and risky.

Goes to show just how much out of touch game developing companies are now a days.

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/702357-i-know-that-feel-bro

Feel with ya..

Yup : (

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2020

E

Cyberpunk 2077 give me Bladerunner, Ghost In The Shell and Alita vibes. I love the world in Cyberpunk 2077, it might sounds greedy for me to say this but I wanted more from Cyberpunk 2077. It's very immersive if I walk on the street like normal pedestrian, but it just that. The world doesn't feel connected or empty because the lack of interaction with the Night City itself. I wanted Night City to feel alive and have connection to V.

Exacrly, no point in making a huge open world that's not player interactive, people want to live and role play as their desired Night City life path.

Otherwise the world is just a glorfied giant pretty background cenário with an invisible wall making sure you can never actually reach it.

This would be acceptable back in 2008 maybe, but not a days.

In fact, other than the graphics, if you really think about it: this game is VERY pre 2010 in all it's gameplay aspects, even the short history lenght is akin to action adventure games of that time.

Game just looks amazing, but feels very very old and outdated in almost every single other way. And I don't mean that in a good homage to the classics kind of way, that could be good... it's more like very early open world Ubisoft games and a combat gamplay that seems to be trying to go for a Deus Ex Human Revolution or a Metal Gear 4 (tactical action), but fails to be in the same quality level of those (not saying they are two perfect games, just saying they are clear influences to CP2077 combat but CP2077 is way bellow the quality of those game's combat, unfortunately).

PS: just I side note... one thing that comes to mind too is just how light, floaty, thin, and "clipy" everything feels in CP2077, in the demos and trailers everything felt way more solid. Maybe it's a collision detection thing. I could use other game examples, but just taking Metal Gear 4 and Deus Ex Human Revolution since I'm already talking about them and they are clear influences for CP2077: those two games feel way less floaty and thin, just much more solid, with way less cliping issues, every object, person and the world itself feels more contrete, probably it's related a colision dectection thing in the engine.

 

[seikojin]

How long will it take to have a GOOD Cyberpunk themed open world branching paths RPG game?

I'm talking real Cyberpunk, 80s Anime style kind of setting, combustion engine cars, zero science fiction stuff but 100% true Cyberpunk (think Akira, Ghost In The Shell, Bubblegum Crisis). Cyberpunk 2020 / RED is really just all of that I described in it's origins, a great scenario and RPG ruleset and deserved better, a shame now the IP is CDPR restricted.

I want something with the open world IA and polish of GTA V, gameplay of modern Deus Ex games but harder and better, interaction, side activities and immersion of Yakuza / Shenmue, quality of writing, main characters and side quests from Witcher 3, and a good RPG ruleset with hardcore RPG mechanics and custom character development and skill specialization all with a Cyberpunk theme, attitude and overall disregard for censorship and political correctness but at the same time embracing differences and sexual freedom as commonplace.

Drugs, alcohol, sex and nudity overload, ultra violence, existentialism crisis, mechanical implants, artificial intelligence, 80s future technology mixed with current and old technology... all this together is what makes Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk. Game directors should keep it mind, and maybe watch 80s Cyberpunk anime to absorb the whole true vibe regularly while making such a game.

I believe this game can and should be done. There are already examples of similar games in other settings already... but now that CDPR dropped the ball I doubt anyone else will try making such a dream game.

So, that's the discussion: how long (more) you guys think it'll take for us the get such a game delivered by any developer?

If you feel CP 2077 doesn't touch these themes deeply enough for you, start the project and gather like minded folks to help build it. I see all the things described in what you want in CP 2077. I feel this is a GREAT CP themed game. I do think it has room for improvement, however it has taken me back to my PnP days more than any other CP game on PC/Console to date. And I am not a picky person.

However, to the question you ask, how long to make one to YOUR vision of one? If you have the right team (meaning experienced folks), you can probably churn CP 2077 level of fidelity, with your described depth and polish, in 3 to 4 years. I mean lore is abundant, and can be community sourced (think of a core story and a community event thing to add additional content, or kickstarter, etc). The real work is controlling how ideas become features, and how they all mesh, along with tooling to create the art/objects, and even make them work together. Obviously visual art assets take time to make too, however, from my experience, it is making sure models look good under all conditions, that takes the time.

 

[faverodefavero]

Nah, I and most people here in this forum just want the game they promissed.

At the very least the game shown in trailers and demos, which was better in every single aspect shown from gameplay to rulesets (including humanity costs for cyberware and many other features). Just give that game back.

If YOU are currently happy with the game, go play it and have fun : )

If you feel CP 2077 doesn't touch these themes deeply enough for you, start the project and gather like minded folks to help build it. I see all the things described in what you want in CP 2077. I feel this is a GREAT CP themed game. I do think it has room for improvement, however it has taken me back to my PnP days more than any other CP game on PC/Console to date. And I am not a picky person.

However, to the question you ask, how long to make one to YOUR vision of one? If you have the right team (meaning experienced folks), you can probably churn CP 2077 level of fidelity, with your described depth and polish, in 3 to 4 years. I mean lore is abundant, and can be community sourced (think of a core story and a community event thing to add additional content, or kickstarter, etc). The real work is controlling how ideas become features, and how they all mesh, along with tooling to create the art/objects, and even make them work together. Obviously visual art assets take time to make too, however, from my experience, it is making sure models look good under all conditions, that takes the time.