I'd love to see some bustling streets with a hundred or more npc characters. Look at a game like DX: Human Revolution...huge city with implied large population, and you see maybe thirty-forty of them at most in an entire level. Agreed on the traffic scenario as well. Sure there would be dark alleys and places the general populace would not dare to tread, but I feel like the busier sections need movement in contrast to DX:HR's relative quiet.
Last two Hitman games have shown large crowds. I'd like to occasionally see something like Blood Money's Mardi Gras crowd.
Though that brings few balancing issues. I have this idea that I should be able to talk to any person on the street but with crowds big like that it would be just overwhelming.
Or how would you find persons of interest from that crowd? I'm sure majority of us don't wanna see yellow markers above npc heads.
As much as I dislike saying this maybe best option would be map markers for important npcs...actually scratch that. Let us have good enough information so we find who we're looking, let npcs approach us and yell us over and some would just require us to talk to npcs without any prior knowledge and we either find'em or not.
The problem with crowds of NPCs in video games is performance.
It's essentially impossible to have 30-40 unique, detailed NPCs moving around on the screen and keep a reasonable frame rate.
Of course 5 years ago it was impossible to have 10 ...
I'm just gonna leave this here:
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/3leI1FQZAw0/maxresdefault.jpg
I mean if they can do that with current tech, why not a hundred or so NPCs (not all having dialogue of course) just walking around doing random stuff? It's definitely possible.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/3leI1FQZAw0/maxresdefault.jpg
I mean if they can do that with current tech, why not a hundred or so NPCs (not all having dialogue of course) just walking around doing random stuff? It's definitely possible.
Well, the difference is map size and freedom, as well as similarity of images, (note the identical chests on the zombies), animations and equipment. Rendering a busy Night City street in a non-zombie, multiple-income-levels, different-age-groups believeable way is going to be a challenge.
Hitman:
True, and yeah that's a much better representation of what I'm talking about for sure (never played Hitman). 
But still, might be hard but surely not impossible even based on that screenshot. Even slightly less people than that would be preferable to this:
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/522946-deus-ex-human-revolution-windows-screenshot-detroit-streetss.jpg
But still, might be hard but surely not impossible even based on that screenshot. Even slightly less people than that would be preferable to this:
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/522946-deus-ex-human-revolution-windows-screenshot-detroit-streetss.jpg
He means this -
@Numerical, you can put images in your post using the "
" tags and link between.
Anyway, exactly. I loved DXHR and have something nearing 200 hours into it. Mostly because except for the goatee, the main character looks and is geared and cybered like my favourite Solo from CP2020. Maaay have prejudiced me a bit.
It's also why @wisdom000 will always, always feel a certain contempt for me. It is a stain upon our love, but hey, the bitter makes the sweet ALL THE BETTER, RIGHT?!
Anyway.
I pretended/figured DXHR, like Vampire Bloodlines, was deserted at night, is all. It worked. Mostly. Why the hubs were so tight....whatever. I have arm blades! Shutup!
@Numerical, you can put images in your post using the "
Anyway, exactly. I loved DXHR and have something nearing 200 hours into it. Mostly because except for the goatee, the main character looks and is geared and cybered like my favourite Solo from CP2020. Maaay have prejudiced me a bit.
It's also why @wisdom000 will always, always feel a certain contempt for me. It is a stain upon our love, but hey, the bitter makes the sweet ALL THE BETTER, RIGHT?!
Anyway.
I pretended/figured DXHR, like Vampire Bloodlines, was deserted at night, is all. It worked. Mostly. Why the hubs were so tight....whatever. I have arm blades! Shutup!
Yeah just wasn't sure if the forum auto-resized the images, good to know. Definitely not new to forums hehe. Bigtime DXHR fan too. I can't say I felt the same way about it being deserted what with all that background street noise going on. Maybe Detroit but Hengsha? Wish they had put out an SDK for that one.
If they can give Cyberpunk 2077 at least a feeling of it being heavily populated in areas I'm cool with that. And from the Hitman thing, yeah man it's gotta be somewhat doable.
Definitely not new to forums hehe. Bigtime DXHR fan too. I can't say I felt the same way about it being deserted what with all that background street noise going on. Maybe Detroit but Hengsha? Wish they had put out an SDK for that one. If they can give Cyberpunk 2077 at least a feeling of it being heavily populated in areas I'm cool with that. And from the Hitman thing, yeah man it's gotta be somewhat doable.
Though I'm not expecting the excuse "it is night time" to work in Night City. It being megacity I'd expect people working different shifts and lots of stuff going at night.
Lately been playing Lost Alpha and made me wonder why the heck in Human Revolution nobody sleeps or relaxes? I mean especially the gangs, they're all guarding and patrolling even at night. Didn't actually bother me when playing but I'd like to see bad guys take breaks also if we're on their home turf.
Lately been playing Lost Alpha and made me wonder why the heck in Human Revolution nobody sleeps or relaxes? I mean especially the gangs, they're all guarding and patrolling even at night. Didn't actually bother me when playing but I'd like to see bad guys take breaks also if we're on their home turf.
Agreed.
Although in DXHR you do have people on couches, watching TV - gang members especially -, out at clubs, even dancing in goddamn metro throughfares. Before they get punchededed.
I think @Numerical used a very appropriate term: Contrast.
I want to see a lot of contrast in Night City. Wealth and poverty, claustrophobic and agoraphobic environments, bustling crowds and deserted streets, danger and safety.
That combined with the ebb and flow of a 24 hour lifestyle, to me, is the best way to make the city feel alive.
And for those that do not know, in 2020 it is normal to be awake for 22 hours, using drugs to keep you awake and a device to make you get 8 hours worth of sleep in 2 hours.
I want to see a lot of contrast in Night City. Wealth and poverty, claustrophobic and agoraphobic environments, bustling crowds and deserted streets, danger and safety.
That combined with the ebb and flow of a 24 hour lifestyle, to me, is the best way to make the city feel alive.
And for those that do not know, in 2020 it is normal to be awake for 22 hours, using drugs to keep you awake and a device to make you get 8 hours worth of sleep in 2 hours.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but as I play Wolfenstein New Order - fun shooter, by the way - I am reminded of something lacking in creating a Feels Real City - consequences to you pestering NPCs.
I'd like to see several stages, adjusted by your characters ATTR stat, Personal Grooming and Wardrobe/Style, REP and, of course, weapons and/or armour/ and/or types of cyberware displayed.
Anyway.
These stages would be Initial, Repeat, Firm, Final, Consequence.
Initial: First glimpse or reaction, NPC responds based on above values. Might be welcoming, neutral, dismissive, hostile, larcenous, mercantile, even flirty.
Repeat: More of the above, deeper in UNLESS something changes, like gun is put away or helmet taken off or Persuasion/Fast Talk roll is made, which might either reset to a better Initial Stage or to the third stage of:
Firm: At this point, the NPC has pretty much made up their mind. A really good or bad action, like bribing them or a great Fast Talk roll or punching them could move back a stage or even force a reset to Initial, but otherwise..
Final: They walk away or draw a weapon or embrace for a kiss or try to pick your pocket or just start yelling. At this point, you have to deal with what's happened - follow them, ( which could force a reset to Hostile), shoot back, kiss back, whatever.
Consequence : the above actions take place, but this stage allows for spreading consequences, REP change, cops getting called, a new Follower acquired, witnesses tell family members who plan revenge, etc.
Of course, sometimes an NPC would go through these stages very quickly, even skipping right to Consequences if you do something like Fast Draw and shoot them.
Every NPC in the game would have this matrix encoded into them, as well as values that adjusted depending on what you'd done to other NPCs that your current target/passers-by might be aware of. Like Iron Sights gang members knowing you'd capped a sister the night before, but also knowing your REP as a high-powered Corporate.
You could also use this as a matrix for PC actions and reactions as conversations or encounters go, but that's another topic.
I'd like to see several stages, adjusted by your characters ATTR stat, Personal Grooming and Wardrobe/Style, REP and, of course, weapons and/or armour/ and/or types of cyberware displayed.
Anyway.
These stages would be Initial, Repeat, Firm, Final, Consequence.
Initial: First glimpse or reaction, NPC responds based on above values. Might be welcoming, neutral, dismissive, hostile, larcenous, mercantile, even flirty.
Repeat: More of the above, deeper in UNLESS something changes, like gun is put away or helmet taken off or Persuasion/Fast Talk roll is made, which might either reset to a better Initial Stage or to the third stage of:
Firm: At this point, the NPC has pretty much made up their mind. A really good or bad action, like bribing them or a great Fast Talk roll or punching them could move back a stage or even force a reset to Initial, but otherwise..
Final: They walk away or draw a weapon or embrace for a kiss or try to pick your pocket or just start yelling. At this point, you have to deal with what's happened - follow them, ( which could force a reset to Hostile), shoot back, kiss back, whatever.
Consequence : the above actions take place, but this stage allows for spreading consequences, REP change, cops getting called, a new Follower acquired, witnesses tell family members who plan revenge, etc.
Of course, sometimes an NPC would go through these stages very quickly, even skipping right to Consequences if you do something like Fast Draw and shoot them.
Every NPC in the game would have this matrix encoded into them, as well as values that adjusted depending on what you'd done to other NPCs that your current target/passers-by might be aware of. Like Iron Sights gang members knowing you'd capped a sister the night before, but also knowing your REP as a high-powered Corporate.
You could also use this as a matrix for PC actions and reactions as conversations or encounters go, but that's another topic.
Haven't played new Wolfenstein but can't picture how you get from that game to this great idea