A question about stamina (vigor?) and increasing health

[topeira]

A question about stamina (vigor?) and increasing health

hi guys. some Questions -

1) i always read users talking about stamina in TW3 or vigor, but from the footage i've seen the yellow bar that gets depleted from using signs or jumping doesnt seem to deplete from anything else. perhaps there is a slight pause in regen speed when you roll or dodge, but parrying or attacking doesnt seem to reduce stamina\vigor.
am i seeing right? its not like Dark souls or skyrim where you need to manage attacks and blocks so you dont run out of stamina or anything....

2) also, from looking at the skills i wonder - is there any way to upgrade geralts HEALTH? or is increasing his resistance to damage only a matter of better armor (which is what i would prefer, personally)?

 

[Lieste]

Pretty sure parrying or being hit does dent it... you can certainly overwhelm opponents making them easier to kill by hitting them (or their block) often enough.

Many skills, and mutagens increase vitality. Seems one of the more common enhancements tbh.

 

[Jimbob_2.1]

It seems to me that attacking and dodging don't effect stamina but rolling does (delays regen mostly). I'll have to have a look to be sure but I expect parrying uses stamina like it did in the W2. I think this is the right way to do it. It encourages you to dash, rather than roll. Otherwise it would be better to roll everywhere. Your stamina is spent on signs, so you wouldn't really get a chance to use them if you were always using it up. Also, and this bit is pure speculation, if the higher level swordsman abilities use stamina, then this will balance the combat. Either you use advanced fighting techniques but not have the stamina for signs, or you use signs but are restricted to the basic attacks and dodges.

 

[Solid_Altair]

Don't you think parries were punished too much on TW2?

They seem more viable now, because they require less Vigor (seem only to pause the recovery). I think their increased viability is a good thing. It helps preventing against dodge spam.

 

[topeira]

from what i've seen (and i've seen A LOT) attacking and parrying does NOT using vigor at all. nada.
so parrying a lot might be really effective. i havent seen any YT video of someone who just parries a lot. everyone is rolling everywhere and i dont get why. if anything, since parrying doesnt take vigor, than is geralt completely invincible if the player just holds the guard button and that's it?
i mean, its very clear how important stamina is for the human enemies. but geralt doesnt seem affected by vigor other than signs.it looks like vigor is just for signs. which is weird. and the fact that all vigor is decreased by a single sign makes it even weirder.

also, from looking at the skill description here:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/33751-Activated-Skills-Tree/page11
i dont see an increase in vitality in any skill besides Survival Instinct. which Increases the maximum vitality by 500.
what am i missing? where can i see these other skills where vitality is increased?

in AC:U you can buff up your health a LOT and armor was kinda meaning less. i really wish TW3 will not put focus on Geralt's health but rather better armor so if i wish to remove a really powerful armor just so i feel more fragile within easier areas of the map than i could. otherwise i will feel OPed after a while.
usually i do not increase my health in games. in Shadow of mordor, batman:AC and AC:U, for example, i havent upgraded my health and didnt have problems finishing the game like that. however i dont think i will be able to do that in TW3, and if upgrading health is the main way to survive in the game than it will be kinda sad for me, personally.

 

[Lieste]

Skills increasing vitality:

Renewal (restoration of vitality if below maximum on consuming potions).
Transformation of tissues (200+ vitality for each active elixir).
Survival Instinct (500+ vitality)
Bear (+5% vitality per heavy armour)


Plus large boosts with mutagen slots seem to be available, and we had enhancement effects for armour and weapons that increased this aspect. Likely to remain possible.

 

[Solid_Altair]

I had a second playthrough without upgrading health in SoM. And I don't upgrade health in AC games in general.

I find Batman challenging enough, so I get health upgrades for it, normally. If I don't wanna get upgrades in a game, then this game has "lack of difficulty" issues.

I hope I will want to get extra health stuff and armor in the TW3.

 

[thislsmadness]

from what i've seen (and i've seen A LOT) attacking and parrying does NOT using vigor at all. nada.
so parrying a lot might be really effective. i havent seen any YT video of someone who just parries a lot. everyone is rolling everywhere and i dont get why. if anything, since parrying doesnt take vigor, than is geralt completely invincible if the player just holds the guard button and that's it?
i mean, its very clear how important stamina is for the human enemies. but geralt doesnt seem affected by vigor other than signs.it looks like vigor is just for signs. which is weird. and the fact that all vigor is decreased by a single sign makes it even weirder.

I don't think its weird at all, Signs appear to be extremely powerful, so having some mechanism in place to regulate their use makes a lot of sense to me. Its also not at all necessary to attach stamina to Parry, dodge, and roll. "Turtling" can just as easily be countered by giving enemies abilities that break guard. It already seems like parry stance limits mobility and doesnt do anything for Geralt if hes been attacked from the flank or back. Likewise, the dodge and roll don't really appear to have immunity frames, which actually makes them significantly different than what we see in the Souls games.

Its also possible that things actually do still have some stamina cost. I noticed that when Geralt begins to sprint he doesn't immediately start losing stamina, he has to sustain it for 4-5secs before it starts to drain.

 

[theLaughingStorm.108]

I am very glad parrying no longer uses vigor. This, for me, is huge. I plan on parrying a lot.

 

[Solid_Altair]

This isn't what the thread title actually meant by "increasing health", but... do you guys like that Geralt recovers health automatcally from one battle to another? It makes it so a fight isn't dangerous unless it can kill you. There is no such thing as challenge in multiple small fights.

I'd prefer a system like in DA: I, Lightning Returns or Dark Souls, where the healing is based on/limited by checkpoints.

Initially I thought they were going with "fight by fight challenge", because they didn't want you to get back to checkpoints, so your roaming and adventures could last very long, uninterrupted. I suppose I'd be OK with that. However, I saw that your equipment needs repair. So, if we're gonna need to go to checkpoints anyways, I really think the healing should be based on it :/

 

[dragonbird]

This isn't what the thread title actually meant by "increasing health", but... do you guys like that Geralt recovers health automatcally from one battle to another? It makes it so a fight isn't dangerous unless it can kill you. There is no such thing as challenge in multiple small fights.

I'd prefer a system like in DA: I, Lightning Returns or Dark Souls, where the healing is based on/limited by checkpoints.

Initially I thought they were going with "fight by fight challenge", because they didn't want you to get back to checkpoints, so your roaming and adventures could last very long, uninterrupted. I suppose I'd be OK with that. However, I saw that your equipment needs repair. So, if we're gonna need to go to checkpoints anyways, I really think the healing should be based on it :/

He recovered between fights in the first two games. In this game, he recovers only on the easier modes. And you don't need to go to checkpoints(?), you can recover wherever you are, and you can also use repair kits on equipment.
I'm not quite sure what your concerns are?

 

[Solid_Altair]

Well... now they're different.

He doesn't regen automatically in harder difficulties?

If not, can he brew healing potions with just alcohol? If so, than the lack of automatic healing would pretty much just slow the pace.

If the healing is based on checkpoints/cities/merchants (no automatic healing when not in combat and no easy refilling healing potions), then I'd actually prefer not having repair kits, 'cause we'd need to get to cities from time to time, anyways; hence it would be propper for repairs to only be done in these checkpoints.

However, if there is easy healing, then I'd welcome the repair kit. If we don't need checkpoints to heal, we shouldn't need it for repairs either.

 

[topeira]

Skills increasing vitality:

Renewal (restoration of vitality if below maximum on consuming potions).
Transformation of tissues (200+ vitality for each active elixir).
Survival Instinct (500+ vitality)
Bear (+5% vitality per heavy armour)


Plus large boosts with mutagen slots seem to be available, and we had enhancement effects for armour and weapons that increased this aspect. Likely to remain possible.

i gotta admit that i dont fully understand these upgrades but they dont seem to add to vitality. they add to vitality regeneration under potions and slight increase in vitality that is tied to armor. only the "survival instinct" seems to increase vitality by a lot. which is strange since usually you are supposed to gain vitality in increments.
so my point stands - there are no skills to add health.
i really REALLY hope health doesnt increase automatically with every level. i REALLY HATE when games force upgrades on me.
i believe it's either your health increases automatically by leveling up or that increasing health is done only by armor. the first option is my worst nightmare. the second option is my wish come true. and they are both very liable to happen.

I am very glad parrying no longer uses vigor. This, for me, is huge. I plan on parrying a lot.

im very happy for that as well. you dodge slow attacks or slow enemies and you parry light weapons. that's how it should be. BUT if parrying has no downside, no lose of vigor or anything than what prevents you from turteling? it's a bit weird. i dont think geralt DOESNT parry from behind. im pretty sure he parries in all directions automatically.

He recovered between fights in the first two games. In this game, he recovers only on the easier modes. And you don't need to go to checkpoints(?), you can recover wherever you are, and you can also use repair kits on equipment.
I'm not quite sure what your concerns are?

looking at some of the new really long footage in the videos sticky it doesnt seem like geralt regen health. only if he has taken an elixir. only when i saw a picture of an elixir next to the health bar i saw health regen. outside of combat health doesnt seem to fill up. and if it does, it was reeeaaallly slow (like 10 minutes or so to gain full health).

 

[Lieste]

I've seen vitality figures in the thousands... so a 5% increase for boots, trews, gauntlets and body... comes to 500-600. Not "trivial".
Transformation of tissues increases vitality by 200 points for each active elixir. This is only temporary, but the duration can be extended.

Mutagens can be seen to add various amounts ~ the lvl 3 noonwraith mutagen gave 150 vitality, which when paired with 3 alchemy skills could reach 600 pts.

Whether this is as useful as hitting harder and dodging more effectively isn't obvious though.

 

[hellcaretaker]

Transformation of tissues increases vitality by 200 points for each active elixir. This is only temporary, but the duration can be extended.

And it probably increases it far more on higher levels of the skill. Considering it has 5 tiers, it's entirely possible that maxing out that skill causes each potion to temporarily increase health by 1000.
And that's quite a lot.

 

[Assalander]

This isn't what the thread title actually meant by "increasing health", but... do you guys like that Geralt recovers health automatcally from one battle to another? It makes it so a fight isn't dangerous unless it can kill you. There is no such thing as challenge in multiple small fights.

I'd prefer a system like in DA: I, Lightning Returns or Dark Souls, where the healing is based on/limited by checkpoints.

Initially I thought they were going with "fight by fight challenge", because they didn't want you to get back to checkpoints, so your roaming and adventures could last very long, uninterrupted. I suppose I'd be OK with that. However, I saw that your equipment needs repair. So, if we're gonna need to go to checkpoints anyways, I really think the healing should be based on it :/

From what I have seen health is not regenerating at all unless you take food or potion. There is a skill giving you slow health regen during the day. Note that it may depend on difficulty level...

 

[mecha_fish]

If the healing is based on checkpoints/cities/merchants (no automatic healing when not in combat and no easy refilling healing potions), then I'd actually prefer not having repair kits, 'cause we'd need to get to cities from time to time, anyways; hence it would be propper for repairs to only be done in these checkpoints.
However, if there is easy healing, then I'd welcome the repair kit. If we don't need checkpoints to heal, we shouldn't need it for repairs either

Nah, I don't believe there's any such thing. You could view purchasing food/items and not being in a dangerous place a means of 'recovery in a special zone'. As for repair kits, I do believe that's what potions and the whole alchemy system are for. Also stocking up on food while you're in a city is probably a reasonable idea too. This is a man who travels the lands for a living and probably visits cities less often than most adventurers. I would say a repair kit perspective is more suitable for this game in the name of roleplaying.

 

[dragonbird]

I think a lot of people would be extremely pissed off if you had to head to a city or some other checkpoint to recover from your injuries. (Now that I understand what you mean by checkpoint).

 

[thislsmadness]

On easy/normal you can just meditate to get your health back.

 

[Solid_Altair]

From what I have seen health is not regenerating at all unless you take food or potion. There is a skill giving you slow health regen during the day. Note that it may depend on difficulty level...

I was thinking about that skill, too.

And I think it says it increases the regeneration. This made me think there is probably a standard regeneration.

Going to a city in order to heal wouldn't be everytime you need healing. The idea is that you can carry a limited amount of healing items and use them accross a bunch of fights. You'd only go back to a city when the healing items are almost up. And frequently you'd also go back to a city for different reasons and you'd end up using the opportunity to re-stock the healing items.

Even if he doesn't regen for free on harder difficulties, it will be quite pointless if he can heal himself with just alcohol or if that darn skill allows free regen anyways.

The practical result is that multiple small fights would be no threat to you. Only fights that can deplete your whole health, along with your healing potential, would be a threat. This is bad, m'kay?