A real cyberpunk experience

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In addition to what others have said I'd like to add.
1. All the source material and information about the game, came from that 48min gameplay, the Night City Wires, and Youtubers demo.
So how can a customer (us) know how the game looks like before release?
We need to get the informations from that materials, because it was the only material avaible.

This is the only point where I partially agree with you. Games used to have demos. They rarely do these days and there is absolutely no way for someone to evaluate whether a game is truly a good fit for them or not. Even gameplay videos are poor indicators as they are generally highly curated content.

That is a damn shame.

2. So based on what You are saying, they could release a 2D card game (as Microsoft Solitaire for example), right?
"In the trailers we show what we had in mind. But in the end, this is the product".

You want the truth?

Here it is - Yes, yes they very well could. It's an extreme and absolutely ridiculous example but that's the truth. As long as customers are very well aware that the final product is solitaire when purchasing it after release, they very well could. Anything shown off while in development is subject to any change they feel like doing. That's the simple truth. It's not a contractual agreement between us and them. Not in any way.

But what about pre-orders I hear you say? If they're given the chance to opt-out and get a refund because the product took a completely different turn, no harm no foul.

It would certainly get them in trouble with other groups as a public company but customers? Not at all.

4. Lucky for us, that's not how the world works.
Generally the commercial before product release (not only games, but also cars, eletronics, and so on) shows exactly how the product will look like.
And that's why CDPR has a lot of backfires, and others company don'ts.
Look a Bethesda trailer: what you see is what you'll receive.
And that's a misunderstanding on your part.

The 2018 gameplay video was not a commercial. Not by a long shot. It was supposed to be a media restricted affair never meant to be shown to the wider public. CDPR chose to show it after people clamored to see it. They even said that this might not be the game people see on their screen at launch.

It was a mistake to show it. A mistake CDPR is paying dearly for and seems to have a learned from.
 
You want the truth?

Here it is - Yes, yes they very well could. It's an extreme and absolutely ridiculous example but that's the truth. As long as customers are very well aware that the final product is solitaire when purchasing it after release, they very well could. Anything shown off while in development is subject to any change they feel like doing. That's the simple truth. It's not a contractual agreement between us and them. Not in any way.
Sorry, but that's not how the world works.
You can't just change the product without informing you customers.

The customers need to be informed before they purchase the game.


And that's a misunderstanding on your part.

The 2018 gameplay video was not a commercial. Not by a long shot. It was supposed to be a media restricted affair never meant to be shown to the wider public. CDPR chose to show it after people clamored to see it. They even said that this might not be the game people see on their screen at launch.

It was a mistake to show it. A mistake CDPR is paying dearly for and seems to have a learned from.
Good point.

And why you think they were not willing to show it to the community?
And why you think reviewers (like Youtuber) can't show us theyr own gameplay? (by contract)
And why you think they did not give console review code?

Because they KNEW the game was bad.
CDPR didn't want to give out information, to be able to get pre-order money on both PC and consoles.

You can see it now? It's clear as day.
Again You can like both the game and the devs, but is objective that they wanted to cover things up.
 
I didn't expect everything promised because advertisers lie.

I DID expect the product to ****ing work.

If it was released on PS4 and Xbox ONe then it should function on both consoles.
 
Sorry, but that's not how the world works.
You can't just change the product without informing you customers.

The customers need to be informed before they purchase the game.

I think you don't fully understand my post. Maybe it's the language barrier. Let me rephrase that.

You are right that customers need to be informed before their purchase. There is no denying that. What this means is that a game's box or store page needs to reflect the actual game that players are getting.

In other words, CP2077's box or store page only needs to inform people about the final product. Everything that has been shown before the actual release can be completely abandonned as long as that condition is met, everything is legal as far as consumers are concerned. Of course, the previous point about pre-orders refund still stands.

Let's not forget there used to be a time where all we had to go on was a game's box if a game had no widely available demo. That didn't change because of law but because studios/publishers realized that more in-depth trailers/showings drove hype and, consequently, sales.

Unless your country/state/province has some very specific laws about software development regarding material shown before release, I can assure you that's how the "world" works.

The day the "world" starts imposing laws requiring software companies to adhere exactly to the material they've shown before release is the day we stop getting any information before release.

Good point.

And why you think they were not willing to show it to the community?
Those private media showing happen all the time. The only difference is that most companies don't end up showing it to the public afterwards. The reason for these private showing is that most medias understand that these showings are subject to any change the developers want to make.

And why you think reviewers (like Youtuber) can't show us theyr own gameplay? (by contract)
And why you think they did not give console review code?

Because they KNEW the game was bad.
CDPR didn't want to give out information, to be able to get pre-order money on both PC and consoles.

You can see it now? It's clear as day.
Again You can like both the game and the devs, but is objective that they wanted to cover things up.
Now that's another conversation entirely.

It's obvious you dislike the game and CDPR. You make a point of pointing it out in every thread and I think you have some serious bias going on.

With that said, while I don't think the game is bad by any stretch of the mind, I do agree, and I've said so before, that the reviews embargo and lack of console review capabilities before release was some shady shit.

That's another conversation entirely and very, very far from the point of this thread. It's been discussed to death over the last year, no point going over it yet again.
 

Guest 3847602

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Sorry, but that's not how the world works.
You can't just change the product without informing you customers.

The customers need to be informed before they purchase the game.
Customers were informed about the removal of apartment customization, car customization, train, wallrunning, Flathead, 3rd person cutscenes.
Customers were informed about the fact that joining gangs, flying AVs and optional 3rd person perspective won't be in the game.
Customers were informed about the lifepaths being backstories. Customers were not informed about the lifepaths being separate storylines.
Customers were informed about the game being story-driven. Customers were informed about the fact that the game won't resemble GTA.
Customers were never informed by CDPR about the 1000 NPC routines or bribable cops or environmental hazards being in the game.

And despite all of this, some customers have absolutely no problem with accusing CDPR of lying about this. With calling all of this "promised, but missing features".
 
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Customers were informed about the removal of apartment customization, car customization, train, wallrunning, Flathead, 3rd person cutscenes.
Customers were informed about the fact that joining gangs, flying AVs and optional 3rd person perspective won't be in the game.
Customers were informed about the lifepaths being backstories. Customers were not informed about the lifepaths being separate storylines.
Customers were informed about the game being story-driven. Customers were informed about the fact that the game won't resemble GTA.
Customers were never informed by CDPR about the 1000 NPC routines or bribable cops or environmental hazards being in the game.

And despite all of this, some customers have absolutely no problem with accusing CDPR of lying about this. With calling all of this "promised, but missing features".
Oh so we were informed You say? And where exactly?
Where I can find another anoucement trailer where they change all this things?
Or what You are saying is that You think that they did say it?

You see, the issue with CDPR is that they almost never release official statement.
Next patch when? What will be included?

We don't know. Why? Beacuse they don't give us official statement.
Simple as that.

Also to add a couple of point:
Customer were informed that the type of clothing (Kitch, Militarism... ect) is not present in the game?
Customer were informed that Night City is not the best city in modern RPG games?
Customer were informed that the game was not working on base console?
Customer were informed that the game was changed from RPG to Action Aventure, but it's a Looter Shooter instead?
Cutomer were informed that most parts and door of the maps are not accessible?

If we need to discuss what is true or not in on on the few official trailers shown to the public, You can see there is a problem.
A part from couple games, I don't remember ever a situation like this.
 
Customer were informed that the game was changed from RPG to Action Aventure, but it's a Looter Shooter instead?
Ok no, just no. Action adventure - maybe. I don't see it personally, but fine. Looter shooter? That's borderlands. When you look at Cyberpunk 2077 do you see borderlands?
 
Ok no, just no. Action adventure - maybe. I don't see it personally, but fine. Looter shooter? That's borderlands. When you look at Cyberpunk 2077 do you see borderlands?
As Borderlands you can shoot (almost braindead) enemy and collect their weapons. You end a fight, and you have like 50 guns on the floor.
So, for me looks like a looter shoter.
A bad one, since weapons are all the same, with maybe a little dmg change.
 
As Borderlands you can shoot (almost braindead) enemy and collect their weapons. You end a fight, and you have like 50 guns on the floor.
So, for me looks like a looter shoter.
A bad one, since weapons are all the same, with maybe a little dmg change.
Yes....the problem comes when we change the names with other games. 'In Baldur's gate you can shoot/kill (almost braindead) enemy and collect their weapons. You end a fight and you have like 50 weapons on the floor. So, for me that's a looter shooter':)
Or fallout 1 & 2 to give another example.
....or I was just wondering: why isn't diablo 2 considered a looter-shooter? The term not existing then?
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Basically for this game to be a loooter-shooter, we have to take one specific part and only this one part and ignore all the others:)
 
Ok no, just no. Action adventure - maybe. I don't see it personally, but fine. Looter shooter? That's borderlands. When you look at Cyberpunk 2077 do you see borderlands?
Not nearly the level of customization, sure... but the overcrowded, slightly varied stats, across barely re-skinned versions of a small handful of weapons and often appearing as a flambouyant hobo if you want performative armor - Yeah, it's bogged down with looter shooter mechanics. Absolutely. Criticizing the game isn't an attack on the developers or yourself. It's often not even an attack on the good things that are there. We want this game to be it's best. Borderlands isn't the only 'looter shooter' either. Nice try though.
 
Not nearly the level of customization, sure... but the overcrowded, slightly varied stats, across barely re-skinned versions of a small handful of weapons and often appearing as a flambouyant hobo if you want performative armor - Yeah, it's bogged down with looter shooter mechanics. Absolutely. Criticizing the game isn't an attack on the developers or yourself. It's often not even an attack on the good things that are there. We want this game to be it's best. Borderlands isn't the only 'looter shooter' either'borderlands isn't the only looter shooter either'. No it is not. But as an example Nice try though.
Ok? I don't disagree that it has looter-shooter elements, but to call the whole game a looter-shooter?
...I don't understand your 'borderlands isn't the only looter shooter either' point. No, it is not. But what does that has to do with my point. It is a nice example for my point. to call CP77 looter-shooter pretty much means to look at CP77 and see borderlands (with different aesthetics of course).
 
Ok? I don't disagree that it has looter-shooter elements, but to call the whole game a looter-shooter?
...I don't understand your 'borderlands isn't the only looter shooter either' point. No, it is not. But what does that has to do with my point. It is a nice example for my point. to call CP77 looter-shooter pretty much means to look at CP77 and see borderlands (with different aesthetics of course).
Ah, I see what you're getting at. I wouldn't call the entire game a looter shooter, those elements do hamper the experience a bit imo. I'm not sure what thread it was, I commented that it really seems like the armor and weapons system were thrown in there since the online experience would go in that direction. It's really annoying that so many games of this kind simply refuses to do one of the things Elder Scrolls and Fallout got right long ago. Man has gun, man has gear, you kill man and take HIS GEAR and HIS GUN.

This game? Well, you can't strip that wicked cyber assassin of their badass armor and restore it's integrity, through a thought out crafting system, from the damage you dealt in the firefight... but she's got a kickass banana hammock with 35.6 armor and +3 body in her cleavage. Luck me.
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
Oh so we were informed You say? And where exactly?
Here:
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...asia-redesuik-gamestar-de-interview.11008165/
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/no-subway-in-cyberpunk-2077.11033222/
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/car-customization-has-been-dropped.11033195/
https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/wallrunning-removed.11033435/
Where I can find another anoucement trailer where they change all this things?
Nowhere. Nobody's making announcement trailers to announce removed features. They did it in various interviews. There were news articles reporting on removed features.
https://gamerant.com/cyberpunk-2077-removed-features-wall-running/
Or what You are saying is that You think that they did say it?
:ohstopit:
Customer were informed that the type of clothing (Kitch, Militarism... ect) is not present in the game?
Already in the game.
Customer were informed that Night City is not the best city in modern RPG games?
What's best city in modern RPG games is subjective. It is the best city in modern RPG games for me by a large margin.
Customer were informed that the game was not working on base console?
True and this is the ONLY lie so far.
Customer were informed that the game was changed from RPG to Action Aventure, but it's a Looter Shooter instead?
I don't buy my games on twitter, Cybeprunk is listed as and RPG on all platforms where you can purchase it. It's not looter-shooter.
Cutomer were informed that most parts and door of the maps are not accessible?
Nope, but nobody ever promised that you can access most of the doors and buildings. Because that would be insane.
 
Oh so we were informed You say? And where exactly?
Mostly social media, many gaming news sites etc. carried articles. Do you really expect a PR team to put together a video detailing a list of removed features?
So, for me looks like a looter shoter.
A bad one, since weapons are all the same, with maybe a little dmg change.
All RPGs have loot systems, in Cyberpunk you can play without looting a single weapon or piece of clothing, if the player directs, you can purchase them from vendors or crafting specs and make them yourself, just like you would in a good old RPG. In fact, it seems counter-productive to ignore crafted mods, cyberware and purchasable clothing/armour and rely on looted equipment. I understand why someone would erroneously label Cyberpunk a looter-shooter, but that type of game is itself an offshoot of RPGs and looting systems are not unique nor specific to genre/game type.
Customer were informed that the type of clothing (Kitch, Militarism... ect) is not present in the game?
Are you really arguing that kitsch or militaristic clothing is absent in the game? Because there are hundreds of examples of both.
 
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Nowhere. Nobody's making announcement trailers to announce removed features.
Mostly social media, many gaming news sites etc. carried articles. Do you really expect a PR team to put together a video detailing a list of removed features?
I imagine something like that :
"In this trailer, we show you things that won't be present in the game. Enjoy the things that you'll never have !"
It could be so hilarious:beer:

True and this is the ONLY lie so far.
On very old consoles, for sure (the base ones) :(
But on my side, when I watched the stream of CohhCarnage, the 9th December (one day before the release), I wonder how my XB1x could manage to run the game... And "surprisingly", it run quite well. Yeah, some framerate drops, some crashes, but at least nothing who prevent me to complete the whole game before christmass...
 
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The OP looks to be asking for an MMORPG. As such, I disagree with every single one of his points and I am glad with how the game turned out.

Could it be better? Of course! But I would much prefer a single-player focused story experience over a sandbox MMORPG.
 
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