A SIMPLE IDEA for HUGE STRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT

[Mak0r]

A SIMPLE IDEA for HUGE STRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT

At actual structure we pick a deck and then we get an enemy. This way we need to prepare 1 deck for all factions or prepare for some and just leave the game when we see we have an enemy with faction we ignored in our deck building. It is a long term game breaking idea.
Looks like Gwent authors have never heard why sc:bw was the best ever in balance and fun despite having "OP" units or decide to ignore it for I have no idea what reason...

In SC:BW first you are matched with an enemy, later you pick factions (3 to pick) and then you pick on your own an opening (a prepared deck for this faction).

The same we can apply for gwent as we also have the same elements. So it would be like this:
1. get an enemy (would be nice to see his stats or something)
2. pick faction (blind) or it can be determined before,1/2 can be switched)
3. pick decks - this is a must be in the last stage

That way you can prepare decks for each faction. Instead of BORING 1 deck for everyone, week vs. everyone or leaving when you see you have unfavorable factions you decided to ignore to be better against other.
Also that way we have much more fun cuz instead we need to prepare 4 times more decks which is 4 times more fun.

How isn't it implemented?!

25 matchups is much better than 5 where in half you just surrender on the start cuz you are not ready for such faction.

 

[bre3zer]

Looks like Gwent authors have never heard why sc:bw was the best ever in balance and fun despite having "OP" units or decide to ignore it for I have no idea what reason...

You are comparing a game where at the start you have all options, to one where obviously you can't. It's kinda pointless. It's like comparing Cards games, and Chest. It prouve nothing.

In SC:BW first you are matched with an enemy, later you pick factions (3 to pick) and then you pick on your own an opening (a prepared deck for this faction).

Pretty sure that isn't how it work in ladder setting for Starcraft: Brood war. You pick a race, then search for a opponent and play agaisn't him with the race you choose..

2. pick faction (blind) or it can be determined before,1/2 can be switched) 3. pick decks - this is a must be in the last stage

If your opponent do the same thing, it's the same results as right now.
You pick a deck to counter NR for exemple, and he pick a deck to counter Monster. I don't really see the differencies with the current system could you explain it ? Maybe im missing something.

Maybe you also didn't realise that sometime you are agaisnt an opponent wich as a deck that doesn't have answer to you deck. That's how TCG work. Rock Paper scissor.

unfavorable factions

unfavorable =/= unwinnable =/= loosing

How isn't it implemented?!

Yeah, i'm trying to figure it as well..

 

[KnifeTime]

Enemy it's a human.
If we can change a deck, why enemy can't?

So, specialized decks will be useless to this reason.

 

[Mak0r]

Enemy it's a human.
If we can change a deck, why enemy can't?

So, specialized decks will be useless to this reason.

Enemy it's a human.
If we can change a deck, why enemy can't?

So, specialized decks will be useless to this reason.

What? Both players pick a deck but only from faction they picked blind before when starting searching for an opponent. Dunno what you are talking about. It is very simple.

 

[FreezingSun]

Pretty sure that isn't how it work in ladder setting for Starcraft: Brood war. You pick a race, then search for a opponent and play agaisn't him with the race you choose..

No, he's right actually. In BW you were dumped into a pre-game lobby before starting the game, where you could pick your race based on what your opponent chose. Some players were quite famous for "race picking" because their Terran was better vs. Zerg than their main race or they wanted to avoid mirror match-ups. You're probably thinking of Starcraft II.

Anyway, I honestly think this isn't a bad idea in itself. However, if it were to be implemented, I could only see it working in a mode that isn't ladder. Maybe if CDPR ever add a tournament feature or something of the sort, they could make a system like makor86 proposed available for that. Ladder should retain that element of having to build the best all-round deck you possibly can and then adapting to what's being thrown at you, in my opinion.

 

[Sanlumiere]

I am an avid starcraft player, and I don't think that you can draw a comparison at all with how an RTS works versus how a card game works.

You equate a build order with constructing a deck, but that's not really an equivalency. First off, build orders are constructed from a specific pool of options, and are timed in a way to allow you to gather the resources to pay for them. A card game gives you 7-10 random cards from which to craft your first few turns. You go in to a starcraft match knowing, based on your opponent's choice of race, which build you are going to use.

Your choices in a card game are whether the cards in your hand will be sufficient to start off well against what your assuming your opponent is doing. In GWENT it's even more restrictive, you must decide if the cards in your hand can win 2 out of 3 rounds against whatever your opponent is doing. With only a handful of emergent strategies in each faction, you make an educated guess as to whether Scorch is the right removal spell or not, etc.

Even with knowledge of the race in starcraft, you are using a build that is either very greedy (multiple expansions before defenses), balanced, or highly aggressive (early pool rushes, 4 gate timings, etc). and you are scouting your opponent to alter your strategy in real time. If you are looking for an analogy, you would be rebuilding your deck after figuring out what your opponent is playing. That's not a thing in card games, and in fact, it's really not a thing in GWENT because your 10 cards are even more locked in than in other traditional card games where you draw new resources and options every turn.

I must admit, I am unclear what you are trying to fix with your suggestion. The point of deck construction is to much like picking a build order, decide if you are going to be defensive, balanced or highly aggressive. You include cards that counter strategies. You include cards that serve to advance your win condition. The reason it's done like this is to try and force some level of inherent weakness in to your deck if you want to handle specific opposing strategies, which dilutes your win condition so that you have to make those types of choices in deck building. It's rather the point of multifaction game design.

 

[Mak0r]

Yeap, such structure demand more cards so it could be possible for late game e.g. for 20+ level or something while <20 level would be with just one deck for all and maybe limited to 2 gold cards as "noob" starting mode. After that 2 modes without limited gold cards. Predefined mode with one deck and the competitive mode where you can pick your decks for specific factions.

SANLUMIERE you wasted your effort as I compared "an opening" not BO to building a deck. You missread

The point is that preparing deck vs. random faction sucks big time. You cant prepare for everything so you either do it and you are average and lose vs decks which took risks and prepared vs 1,2 decks instead of 3,4. The game is won/lost before even started. Same like BO wins. No fun there.

 

[KnifeTime]

Both players pick a deck but only from faction they picked blind before when starting searching for an opponent.

If you play Monster "anti-NR Deck" against opponent who plays NR "anti-Monster Deck" you don't getting any real advantage.
​

 

[Mak0r]

If you play Monster "anti-NR Deck" against opponent who plays NR "anti-Monster Deck" you don't getting any real advantage.
​

If you play Monster "anti-NR Deck" against opponent who plays NR "anti-Monster Deck" you don't getting any real advantage.
​

Still better than random vs random.

In other words now we have just 1 matchup which is random vs random = boring

After the changes we would have 5 from 1 deck which is 5 times more. there are 5 decks so instead of 5 matchups we would have 25! 5 times more matchups which is great as it is ~15 times more fun. I would invest much more in such game.

 

[bre3zer]

No, he's right actually. In BW you were dumped into a pre-game lobby before starting the game, where you could pick your race based on what your opponent chose. Some players were quite famous for "race picking" because their Terran was better vs. Zerg than their main race or they wanted to avoid mirror match-ups. You're probably thinking of Starcraft II.

Anyway, I honestly think this isn't a bad idea in itself. However, if it were to be implemented, I could only see it working in a mode that isn't ladder. Maybe if CDPR ever add a tournament feature or something of the sort, they could make a system like makor86 proposed available for that. Ladder should retain that element of having to build the best all-round deck you possibly can and then adapting to what's being thrown at you, in my opinion.

No, he's right actually. In BW you were dumped into a pre-game lobby before starting the game, where you could pick your race based on what your opponent chose. Some players were quite famous for "race picking" because their Terran was better vs. Zerg than their main race or they wanted to avoid mirror match-ups. You're probably thinking of Starcraft II.

Anyway, I honestly think this isn't a bad idea in itself. However, if it were to be implemented, I could only see it working in a mode that isn't ladder. Maybe if CDPR ever add a tournament feature or something of the sort, they could make a system like makor86 proposed available for that. Ladder should retain that element of having to build the best all-round deck you possibly can and then adapting to what's being thrown at you, in my opinion.

Thanks for the heads up. Didn't know it worked that way.

--- Updated 02-11-16, 23:22 ---

I must admit, I am unclear what you are trying to fix with your suggestion. The point of deck construction is to much like picking a build order, decide if you are going to be defensive, balanced or highly aggressive. You include cards that counter strategies. You include cards that serve to advance your win condition. The reason it's done like this is to try and force some level of inherent weakness in to your deck if you want to handle specific opposing strategies, which dilutes your win condition so that you have to make those types of choices in deck building. It's rather the point of multifaction game design.

Enjoying the analogy with the builds.

Still better than random vs random.

Not really if it's random vs random(Wich is also false since after playing for a while you know what a faction can and cannot do). People with versatil decks do better.

In other words now we have just 1 matchup which is random vs random = boring

In my books random vs random is the less boring, as you have to adapt you game style depending on what your opponent might run as main strategy.



Boring would be exactly what you are suggesting: to pick a deck to counter Y while Y pick a deck to counter x. If that happend, match up always are the same. where the current system prevent that and where you have good and bad match up depending on Decks, factions, strategy.

I get your idea with SC but that doesn't apply to a card game Starcraft got execution, wich isn't the case in gwent. You can't out micro, you can't out macro. giving the same standard in gwent would lead as the same match over and over and over again. Wich is by far more boring, than facing a deck where you are unfavored.



In gwent every cards is the same and not different in the hand of any other players. Your logic still doesn't apply to me.

But it's not like you care of what arguments or interogation other peoples are giving you anyway.

 

[Exentryk]

So, people would pick the faction they want to use, and when they see the opponent's faction, that's when they decide which deck they want to use? So people will have created multiple decks from the same faction to combat certain factions better?

Yeah, I can get behind this idea. I currently have certain cards in my main deck just for some specific factions. So it would be better if I could tailor my decks better.

 

[Mak0r]

So, people would pick the faction they want to use, and when they see the opponent's faction, that's when they decide which deck they want to use? So people will have created multiple decks from the same faction to combat certain factions better?

Yeap, thats the idea. Ofc there could be other mode like now (for low levels who lack cards for multiple decks).