One thing that I noticed with the katana, is how the sword keeps within the field of view, and I feel like that looks a little awkward. I'd assume in real life when you're actually sword fighting, the sword will swing in and out of your field of view often. I'm not an expert on Swords by any means but I just thought of maybe a way to make sword fighting look better from the first person perspective. Katana gameplay - Starts 1:40
Take what I say with a grain of salt, but from what I understand, creating sword combat for a first-person game is different than creating it for a third-person game. In first-person you have a limited view of your surroundings and your character is more limited in ways they can maneuver, without disorienting the player, so no fancy twirling animations and no rolling. So with that in mind, you have to compensate for those drawbacks, by making sword animation & enemy collision as satisfying as you can within that limited constraint. Cdpr have been open about trying to improve enemy reactions in melee.
Post automatically merged:
As well as making sure that the animation for handling the sword is smooth and stylish as you unsheath/stealth and hit enemies with the weapon. Idle animations are important to.
One thing that I noticed with the katana, is how the sword keeps within the field of view, and I feel like that looks a little awkward. I'd assume in real life when you're actually sword fighting, the sword will swing in and out of your field of view often. I'm not an expert on Swords by any means but I just thought of maybe a way to make sword fighting look better from the first person perspective. Katana gameplay - Starts 1:40
I totally agree. In general the perceived requirement of keeping the hands on screen (unrealistically) pisses me off to no end in first-person view. Field of view is always borked in first-person, you don't have to highlight it. I REALLY hope I dont have to suffer from the stupid swinging hands on screen during running. It looks stupid. I for one dont lift my hands in front of my face when I run in real life.
Creating swordplay in first-person view is totally different vs creating it in third person. CDPR has already said as much in interviews, that they had to start learning from scratch. Yet this issue is still their own doing, and I dont like first person view, so I am not very sympathetic.
I mean, not really. Them having to animate Geralt pirouetting through the battlefield (which is completely unrealistic), might’ve warped their view on what a sword fight is supposed to look like.
That said, I’m not sure that your actions being out of view, makes for very good gameplay.
In a real sword fight, the fighter will know where his sword is, simply by the angle at which he’s holding the grip and familiarity with the tool in hand, even if it’s out of his view. (I’ve done some fencing for two years and you’re right, I’m more focussed on the movements of my opponent than my own blade.)
There’s no way to give that sort of tactile feedback to a player running a mouse/controller simulation, so keeping the blade in the player’s view whenever they act is pretty vital.
Can you imagine going through several complicated moves where ordinarily you couldn’t see your blade, and you couldn’t either in the game?
I’d be pissed if I get hit, simply if the game misinterpreted my moves, because the clumsiness of controller/mouse input doesn’t translate well to real-life simulation of movement, and I’ve lost track of where the game thinks the blade is supposed to be. Compensating would rely on split-second to second corrections, hence being able to see the blade being important.
The only good way to simulate a real life sword battle and compensate for the sword being out of view in the simulation, is CDPR sending us a combination of VR and weighted gloves that simulate perfectly the weight and wind resistance of a sword, or an actual katana with sensors that plug into the PC/Console so I can spend the day jumping around my room, thwacking my possessions and monitor/tv in half as I play this game.
I don’t see that happening.
Post automatically merged:
The only other thing I can think of is the game giving us some other type of indicator, as to where our hands/blade are as UI elements. However, that raises other “realism” concerns.
CDPR has been hard at work, making it so that everything we see, V sees. The UI elements and lay-overs, V sees too because of implants. The reason we see something, is because V sees it.
So, if V is a skilled swords(wo)man, then why would their UI be tracking where they keep their hands/blade? Surely V already knows this, since they’re holding the weapon?
It would be replacing one contrivance for another, but too be fair, I think the above UI idea might be less immersion breaking than seeing the blade/hands at all time.
Still see the tip and most of the sword, just not the hands, unless making a wide slash where the hands cross the screen in your view. (For reference, this most basic of the basic postures is called Chudan no kamae.)
The posture shown in the gameplay videos so far is ludicrous if you replicated it in real life. Arms outstretched, with the sword held horizontally in front of your face. No strength whatsoever, a grandma could slap the sword away.
Whenever you shoot with a gun, you obviously raise it up in order to aim down sights. However, when you are NOT aiming, the gun shouldn't be in front of your face in my opinion, you drop it down to a more relaxed position or holster it entirely.
And I really don't want to see hands on screen on idle/running/walking posture. My V doesn't need to stick their thumbs into their nose constantly.
TLDR whenever there is "action" happening, we can see it on the screen.
You are mixing "gun" with "sword", and seem to be unable to grasp how much more important the interplay between "hands" and "sword" is.
The actions you take with a gun are restricted to pointing the shooty bit forward in a fairly narrow angle.
If I were to give you a screenshot where the blade is held horizontally - to let's say, block an enemy's vertical cut to the head - and you can see neither tip nor hilt, then the question of where the hands are is rather vital in rotating the blade to block or sweep away the next attack, or making your next move.
And if the blade moves out of view since we're not taking an action within a battle and being "Idle/stationary" (I can't make those air quotes large enough really), then the question of WHERE we're holding the blade is vital. During fencing and when I'm just facing off for the next burst of activity, I hold and move my sword in and towards key spots that are out of my sight all the time.
There’s no mythical idle position or way to hold a sword, from which every other action can be made. Sword fighting is a sequence of interdependent actions that are resultant of the previous move made by either you or your opponent. Keeping track of the blade AND HANDS is vital as it moves through spots unseen, which is why most, of not all other FP sword fighting games keep those two in frame.
You're just being purposefully reductive and taking small sentences out of context because you absolutely want to be right Blood Artist. But sure! Go ahead and make it all simple. Gaming has figured out proper first person swordplay ages ago!
If I were to give you a screenshot where the blade is held horizontally - to let's say, block an enemy's vertical cut to the head - and you can see neither tip nor hilt, then the question of where the hands are is rather vital in rotating the blade to block or sweep away the next attack, or making your next move.
1. All the melee attacks and sword moves ingame will be fixed animations, performed at a push of a button. You are expecting WAY too much out of the melee combat. There is no need to see my sword or my hands to perform the push of a button. All I need is to see is the enemy to aim. If you mean that you don't have the field of view necessary to properly react to the enemy, congratulations, you have arrived to one of the issues of first person view.
2. I dont need to look at my hands to move them in real life
One thing that I noticed with the katana, is how the sword keeps within the field of view, and I feel like that looks a little awkward. I'd assume in real life when you're actually sword fighting, the sword will swing in and out of your field of view often. I'm not an expert on Swords by any means but I just thought of maybe a way to make sword fighting look better from the first person perspective. Katana gameplay - Starts 1:40
I mean, not really. Them having to animate Geralt pirouetting through the battlefield (which is completely unrealistic), might’ve warped their view on what a sword fight is supposed to look like.
That said, I’m not sure that your actions being out of view, makes for very good gameplay.
In a real sword fight, the fighter will know where his sword is, simply by the angle at which he’s holding the grip and familiarity with the tool in hand, even if it’s out of his view. (I’ve done some fencing for two years and you’re right, I’m more focussed on the movements of my opponent than my own blade.)
There’s no way to give that sort of tactile feedback to a player running a mouse/controller simulation, so keeping the blade in the player’s view whenever they act is pretty vital.
Can you imagine going through several complicated moves where ordinarily you couldn’t see your blade, and you couldn’t either in the game?
I’d be pissed if I get hit, simply if the game misinterpreted my moves, because the clumsiness of controller/mouse input doesn’t translate well to real-life simulation of movement, and I’ve lost track of where the game thinks the blade is supposed to be. Compensating would rely on split-second to second corrections, hence being able to see the blade being important.
The only good way to simulate a real life sword battle and compensate for the sword being out of view in the simulation, is CDPR sending us a combination of VR and weighted gloves that simulate perfectly the weight and wind resistance of a sword, or an actual katana with sensors that plug into the PC/Console so I can spend the day jumping around my room, thwacking my possessions and monitor/tv in half as I play this game.
I don’t see that happening.
Post automatically merged:
The only other thing I can think of is the game giving us some other type of indicator, as to where our hands/blade are as UI elements. However, that raises other “realism” concerns.
CDPR has been hard at work, making it so that everything we see, V sees. The UI elements and lay-overs, V sees too because of implants. The reason we see something, is because V sees it.
So, if V is a skilled swords(wo)man, then why would their UI be tracking where they keep their hands/blade? Surely V already knows this, since they’re holding the weapon?
It would be replacing one contrivance for another, but too be fair, I think the above UI idea might be less immersion breaking than seeing the blade/hands at all time.
I agree with a lot of what you say but I would just feel so uncomfortable if I could only see the upper part of the blade just sitting in the middle of my screen, without being able to see any hands. I know it's unrealistic but it's a video game and it's just more fun, looks cooler, and feels more comfortable if I can see my hands holding any weapon I'm using.
Still see the tip and most of the sword, just not the hands, unless making a wide slash where the hands cross the screen in your view. (For reference, this most basic of the basic postures is called Chudan no kamae.) View attachment 11057006
The posture shown in the gameplay videos so far is ludicrous if you replicated it in real life. Arms outstretched, with the sword held horizontally in front of your face. No strength whatsoever, a grandma could slap the sword away.
Whenever you shoot with a gun, you obviously raise it up in order to aim down sights. However, when you are NOT aiming, the gun shouldn't be in front of your face in my opinion, you drop it down to a more relaxed position or holster it entirely.
And I really don't want to see hands on screen on idle/running/walking posture. My V doesn't need to stick their thumbs into their nose constantly.
TLDR whenever there is "action" happening, we can see it on the screen.
But then I might forget which weapon I have equipped. >going through a dangerous area
>enemies all around
>get attacked by another group of more enemies
>decide to shoot enemies
>V pulls up their hands into view
>V is holding a can of beans
>Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy.............. this isn't what I thought I had equipped!
I actually really like being able to see my hands in a video game, as long as they're not huge and blocking my view a lot. I know it's not realistic, but for a comfortable and fun gameplay experience, this makes me happy. Some things work well in video games, some don't. Example: Kingdom Come Deliverance. did a bunch of weird things in the name of realism, but they tried to hard in all the wrong ways, and then left other things super unrealistic, so instead of realism, the game still feels unrealistic, but now it's just extremely tedious and frustrating. So I don't want CDPR to strive for realism in places where it wont serve to make the experience of Cyberpunk2077 more fun.
1. All the melee attacks and sword moves ingame will be fixed animations, performed at a push of a button. You are expecting WAY too much out of the melee combat. There is no need to see my sword or my hands to perform the push of a button. All I need is to see is the enemy to aim. If you mean that you don't have the field of view necessary to properly react to the enemy, congratulations, you have arrived to one of the issues of first person view.
2. I dont need to look at my hands to move them in real life
If it was the way you say, It's gonna be really awkward and uncomfortable not seeing my hands when all I can see is the upper half of a blade flying around my screen like crazy lol. The fact that I wouldn't be able to see my hands in the game would make the sword just feel like a really strange weightless uncontrollable object and it wouldn't feel like a sword anymore, it would just feel really weird and I wouldn't be able to effectively use it.
I think that controlling melee weapons in the game Chivalry is the best. Also I would add the severing of limbs and the ability to create cdvss exclusively for the swordsman and the ability to reflect bullets with a certain probability. Playing as a guy with a katana can be very fun and exciting like Ghostrunner. I also offered my own version of the katana, but I don't know if the developers will see it and if they like the idea.
This is an interesting point. I've noticed a few other games that get FP melee right do show the weapon leaving the field of view briefly during a swing, which might help with the illusion of momentum.
I think that controlling melee weapons in the game Chivalry is the best. Also I would add the severing of limbs and the ability to create cdvss exclusively for the swordsman and the ability to reflect bullets with a certain probability. Playing as a guy with a katana can be very fun and exciting like Ghostrunner. I also offered my own version of the katana, but I don't know if the developers will see it and if they like the idea.
