A Sword Enthusiast Praises Witcher 3's Combat

[lif_andi]

Combat in the game

Found an interesting piece about the combat in the game, which incidentally I found myself agreeing with.

Excerpt:

"The Witcher 3 is an excellent RPG, but its combat system has come under fire from many people for being too easy, too difficult, too clumsy, too lightweight. These people are wrong. I've been interested in sword-fighting both real and virtual for some time, and three years ago I took up historical longsword training in order to better understand the mechanics of it. In my view, CDProjekt has created a fascinating blend of authentic and fictional swordplay, one which rethinks several recently established frameworks for melee combat, resulting in a coherent fighting style specific to the needs of your character."

More@
http://www.gamesradar.com/witcher-3s-combat-isnt-flawed-its-just-more-real-you-expected/

EDIT: There is already a thread on this, my mistake. Could a mod please move this to the relevant thread please ?

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/54246-A-Sword-Enthusiast-Praises-Witcher-3-s-Combat?p=1858818#post1858818

 

[HenryBukowski]

There was also a recent article in PC Gamer about Sword fighting in games, it was partly an interview with this guy from the European School of Swordfighting.

He basically was complemetary of video games trying to replicate swordfighting dynamics, though he also said no game has really got very close.

The comment on the Witcher 3 was that it's by no means realistic (because realistic is very hard to achieve) but that it has some nice touches.
He did compliment the realism in TW3 of trying to attack someone with a full length shield from the front - it's very hard to do

 

[Zultre]

I find it interesting that there are so many complaints about "realism" in a game that features you as cat eyed humanoid fighting monsters while screwing sorceresses ....

 

[cloolvl]

Just tested it, with various enemies. Nope, you can't interrupt any attack. You have to wait that the animation ends. :cirisad:

EDIT: Tested it more, you can interrupt only the strong attacks but not the fast ones. Not interrupting the fast attacks can make sense, because they are already fast, but some of them are as long as the strong attacks! (Those with the leap)

afaik you can interrupt the long pirouette fast attack and dodge away as soon as geralt touches the ground, no?

This thread is a helluva reach and it's borderline insulting our intelligence, I don't even have to read that link (..)

(..) I bet none of you even know that (..)

No hey listen I'm not about to get into a discussion with a bunch of video game guys on a video game forum (..)

And no I did not read the link and I wont (..).

10/10

 

[HenryBukowski]

I find it interesting that there are so many complaints about "realism" in a game that features you as cat eyed humanoid fighting monsters while screwing sorceresses ....

You need to think more about this..

The point of the fantasy genre has always been to try and integrate aspects of fantasy within an otherwise historically 'familiar' setting. The Witcher portrays exceptionally well a 'european-style' medieval fantasy setting - with key fantasy tropes inserted into it (we have elves, dwarves, some magic..).
Both Dragon Age and Witcher both 'copy' (not a criticism) cultural and historical aspects of real history. You've got the 'home nations' of Temeria, Redania, Kaedwen and Aedirn, the more sophisticated and quite germanic power of Nilfgaard, and the extremely nordic saxon-esque Skillege...
People live peasant-lives in the country, burghers in the city, and physics, including sword fighting, remains fundamentally the same


Long story short, the fantasy genre doesn't have to abandon all claims to realism just because there's fantasy elements.

 

[gtcarlson]

Since spinning has been mentioned in this and other threads a bunch of being impractical it's one of the many things they took from the book. The use of "pirouette" throughout the books borders on excessive. The wolf school has a very acrobatic and flashy style. "Feint" and "tracing a semi circle" are probably the other most used combat phrases for Geralt.

I do think though that some of his moves could be sped up just a hair to make them a little more "inhuman". Or even the ability to chose when to spin that could be interesting, but difficult on K/M.

 

[Holgar82]

afaik you can interrupt the long pirouette fast attack and dodge away as soon as geralt touches the ground, no?

Sadly, most of the time when Geralt touches the ground is already too late. All those long pirouette should just be reserved for only heavy attacks or used for fast attacks but they need to be accelerated.

 

[ju5t_me]

Well... I do agree with the guys general idea that game combat and real life combat are not compatible and imo developers shouldn't even try to make a "realistic" combat system (unless maybe it's the main purpose of the game and not just one of many mechanics)
You can't map the complexity of any real martial art on a hand full of actions triggered by a few button/key presses.
And actually... real fights from a 3rd person view look pretty bland. That's why fights in movies etc. are usually stylized, choreographed and the camera does it's best to make the whole thing somewhat exciting...

But I disagree with anything he said about TW3's combat... don't think the game does anything that has not been done before and significantly better at that.

 

[cloolvl]

Sadly, most of the time when Geralt touches the ground is already too late. All those long pirouette should just be reserved for only heavy attacks or used for fast attacks but they need to be accelerated.

sometimes tho that 1/3 of a second is just enough

also i've found that geralt does more what i want if i put extra effort into controlling the distance i attack from

 

[Adon604]

I find it interesting that there are so many complaints about "realism" in a game that features you as cat eyed humanoid fighting monsters while screwing sorceresses ....

Yea that's a good point, I understand there are a lot of nerds who constantly complain about every little thing, for example in another game I play whose forums I visit (Total War Rome series) you will see threads like "Persian Empire has the wrong beards" and it can be extremely annoying for people to be so very petty especially over a great game. But don't get it confused, there is nothing petty about people wanting proper swordplay.
And in my case it's simply for gameplay reasons, as I'm not one of those petty nerds who complain about every little thing.

Witcher 3 is a great GREAT game, and my complaints and other peoples complaints about "realistic" combat", well in my case anyway I can't speak for others, but to me when I say the game needs sword realism, what I mean is because it would make the swordplay feel much better and much more satisfying, hitting enemies with solid quick connected sword strikes that YOU YOURSELF PUT TOGETHER...
That would definitely feel a LOT better than basically button mashing Geralt into a spinning pirouette dance and 360 maneuvers while rolling and dodging... just doesn't work for me and many others.

 

[Taurusbull]

As far as movement goes, IMO the game is alright, its fluid and intuitive, although it could add a few more movesets. That does not change de fact that the game gets too easy after lvl 10.

 

[onionshavelayers]

I hate the combat!

- Geralt feels way too sluggish.

- It's difficult for Geralt to run towards or away from enemies when in combat mode.

- When Geralt goes into combat mode, he walks towards the enemies at a painfully slow rate (and sprinting towards them feels very unresponsive and clumsy).

- Geralt doesn't have that many interesting strike animations.

- Geralt insists on performing spinning strikes, even when it makes no sense to. Often Geralt will be right up against an enemy and instead of pummeling them or butting them or even thrusting them with his sword, he insists of doing a spinning move which not only takes too long, but looks ridiculous. And sometimes the axis of his rotation when spinning is at his centre and not one of his feet which makes the animation look unnatural.

- It kills muh immersion when I'm level 20 and I'm fighting a lvl 38 guard and I have to slowly chip away at the enemy's health doing like 10 damage with each strike. It makes the combat grindy and looks ridiculous. No witcher (no matter his level) should ever have that much trouble with a measly guard from Novigrad. You can kill Leshen's easily but not guards?

- The way in which two-handed axemen block your strikes looks very unnatural, and stuns you?

- The fact that human enemies parry your incredible spinning strikes with sword in one hand and the fact that they do so with such precision and consistency looks very unnatural. All these enemies do is they parry your every strike until eventually the game gives you a lucky break. In other words, it doesn't feel like YOU defeated the enemy's defense with well timed strikes. All you can do is use your signs or parry and kick. There is no ability to actively riposte these enemies with well timed strikes (mostly because of the slow spinning animations).

- I preferred the way that Geralt vaulted towards the enemies in Witcher 2 when you pressed the strike button, and the main reason why I like it now more than ever is because of the second point I made above. It takes too many milliseconds to accelerate and decelerate Geralt to close the gap and get within striking range of the enemy, which is why this aspect of the combat worked better in Witcher 2. Rolling towards your opponent is also not very effective as it is a very sluggish maneuver.

- The camera becomes stiff when targeting an enemy. This system was much better in Witcher 2 (EE) but in that game, Geralt vaulted towards his enemy and so it was a better combination of game mechanics.

- You can only quick use 2 potions before you have to access the inventory to use other potions. This becomes very frustrating especially when you have an alchemy build. And even then, the only potions worth using are swallow, tawny owl and thunderbolt. Blackblood, Blizzard, Petri's philter, they mostly feel useless compared those potions. I'd prefer if the potions where activated from the radial menu like the signs.

 

[Holgar82]

I hate the combat!

- Geralt feels way too sluggish.

- It's difficult for Geralt to run towards or away from enemies when in combat mode.

- When Geralt goes into combat mode, he walks towards the enemies at a painfully slow rate (and sprinting towards them feels very unresponsive and clumsy).

- Geralt doesn't have that many interesting strike animations.

- The fact that human enemies parry your incredible spinning strikes with sword in one hand and the fact that they do so with such precision and consistency looks very unnatural. All these enemies do is they parry your every strike until eventually the game gives you a lucky break. In other words, it doesn't feel like YOU defeated the enemy's defense with well timed strikes. All you can do is use your signs or parry and kick. There is no ability to actively riposte these enemies with well timed strikes (mostly because of the slow spinning animations).

- You can only quick use 2 potions before you have to access the inventory to use other potions. This becomes very frustrating especially when you have an alchemy build. And even then, the only potions worth using are swallow, tawny owl and thunderbolt. Blackblood, Blizzard, Petri's philter, they mostly feel useless compared those potions. I'd prefer if the potions where activated from the radial menu like the signs.

I'm not saying that i hate the combat but, yeah i agree with your points.

 

[Phinnway]

Quite fitting your post, considering your Aragon avatar!

You caught me! I am Viggo Mortensen and I wrote this article myself. You see... ever since I played Aragorn in LOTR I have been itching for a new role where I wield a sword and bang Elves. The closest I can find is The Witcher. So I have been lurking on these forums eagerly antipicating the day when they make a Witcher movie. I will then retun to the silver screen to play my biggest role yet --the bard Dandelion.
:smiling2:

 

[IsengrimR]

Found an interesting article from a games journalist who happens to be a sword enthusiast. He praises Witcher 3's combat for having a higher level of authenticity and doing a way with conventions. I thought it was worth a share.
http://www.gamesradar.com/witcher-3s-combat-isnt-flawed-its-just-more-real-you-expected/

higher level of authenticity and doing a way with conventions

a sword enthusiast

:wazzzup:

I mean... u serious?!

:eredinfacepalm:

Seriously, that "sword enthusiast" should read a book. Maybe, dare I say, this one. Or this one.

Unless, by a "sword enthusiast" you mean "he likes swords". Well, I like swords too. Even with barely any, experience with HEMA, I can honestly say, that if you tried to do what characters in Witcher 3 do in real life... you would get killed.


Seriously, just no. Yes, most of the stuff done is possible to do. And makes sense from the gameplay perspective. But for the love of jove, do not tell me it has a higher level of authenticity. It does not.

 

[Garrison72]

- It's difficult for Geralt to run towards or away from enemies when in combat mode.

- When Geralt goes into combat mode, he walks towards the enemies at a painfully slow rate (and sprinting towards them feels very unresponsive and clumsy).

- Geralt doesn't have that many interesting strike animations.

.

I disagree with most of your post, but no reason to explain why. I'd rather elaborate on the above points.

-With no distance-closing attack, and no sprint during combat, it feels like a crucial element of the system is missing.The way enemies are targeted and attacked is half baked to me. If we could at least dash at enemies Sleeping Dogs style, and then attack when we got close, it'd make sense. But there's no effective way to do that.

-The supposed 90+ animations? Sorry, no way. The combat looks more repetitive than either TW1 or TW2. I don't know where all those combat animations went but they aren't in the game.


Now the combat is still good, it's very responsive and fluid. I just can't get over the feeling, especially after following this game so assiduously up to launch, that certain mechanics got rushed or cut altogether.

 

[Tangsta]

Unless, by a "sword enthusiast" you mean "he likes swords". Well, I like swords too. Even with barely any, experience with HEMA, I can honestly say, that if you tried to do what characters in Witcher 3 do in real life... you would get killed.


Seriously, just no. Yes, most of the stuff done is possible to do. And makes sense from the gameplay perspective. But for the love of jove, do not tell me it has a higher level of authenticity. It does not.

He meant it within the context of a video game, not a realistic simulation designed to train for actual swordplay. To prove your point you need to provide of a better example of authenticity in a video game. Referencing more authentic books doesn't really help in this case.

. If we could at least dash at enemies Sleeping Dogs style, and then attack when we got close, it'd make sense. but there's no effective way to do that.

I tend to just roll or dodge towards the enemy to close the distance.

 

[IsengrimR]

He meant it within the context of a video game, not a realistic simulation designed to train for actual swordplay. To prove your point you need to provide of a better example of authenticity in a video game. Referencing more authentic books doesn't really help in this case.

The things you mention... they barely make any sense. Here is a webster dictionary definition of the word "Authentic".

I get the general idea of what you mean, but it still does not make a huge amount of sense. But, fine, I will give you a better example of authenticity within the context of a video game.

Dark Souls. Apart from few ridiculously oversized weapons, and a few silly attacks, slow pace and overswings ( all of these things are also present in W3 ), there's no spinning, you face your enemy when you attack, most of the attacks are actually possible and everything fits within the context, and the boundaries of game balance and gameplay. There are enemies that can parry, backstab, and combo. There's no endless blocking, because of the well made stamina system.
Especially considering, DS has an online element to it, it strikes and holds a nice balance.

 

[Phinnway]

:wazzzup:

I mean... u serious?!

:eredinfacepalm:

Seriously, that "sword enthusiast" should read a book. Maybe, dare I say, this one. Or this one.

Unless, by a "sword enthusiast" you mean "he likes swords". Well, I like swords too. Even with barely any, experience with HEMA, I can honestly say, that if you tried to do what characters in Witcher 3 do in real life... you would get killed.


Seriously, just no. Yes, most of the stuff done is possible to do. And makes sense from the gameplay perspective. But for the love of jove, do not tell me it has a higher level of authenticity. It does not.

And another post from an idiot who didn't read the article. If you had, you would know the author has taken sword classes for three years. That qualifies him as an enthusiast --not an expert. You would also know that he praises certain things about Witcher's combat and critizes other things, but says as a whole it's more authentic than other medieval action-games, like Dark Souls.

Next time, leave your attitude at the door. Please & thank you.

 

[SgtThundercok]

Funny, i just started a new thread "criticizing" the combat authenticity of Witcher 3 in the Suggestion section.
This authenticity makes Geralt fight at the speed of a common warrior

I think I'll go with the other guy.