A Sword Enthusiast Praises Witcher 3's Combat

[Phinnway]

A Sword Enthusiast Praises Witcher 3's Combat

Found an interesting article from a games journalist who happens to be a sword enthusiast. He praises Witcher 3's combat for having a higher level of authenticity and doing a way with conventions. I thought it was worth a share.
http://www.gamesradar.com/witcher-3s-combat-isnt-flawed-its-just-more-real-you-expected/

 

[Holgaroni]

Funny, i just started a new thread "criticizing" the combat authenticity of Witcher 3 in the Suggestion section.
This authenticity makes Geralt fight at the speed of a common warrior :sadtriss:

 

[Exentryk]

I enjoy W3's combat. Using insta-casting signs (not radial menu), quick dodges, counters, and controlling the battles is a lot of fun.

The following things will improve the combat however:

• Less long winded animations like pirouetting, and more quick efficient strikes
• Fix hit boxes such that only actual contact with the enemy strike damages you.
• Fix dodging to make it more consistent (i-frames should work regardless if you dodge immediately after dealing damage, receiving damage, casting a sign).
• More NEW moves. Whirl, Rend, and alternate Signs are the only NEW moves you see in the whole game. Examples:
  • Think about a sword uppercut (L2 + heavy attack) that lets us launch an enemy in the air, and then juggle them with timed strikes.
  • Think about a sword sweep move (L2 + fast attack) that lets us attack multiple enemies in front with a sweeping action.
  • More combos can be done by using other combos like L1 + heavy attack, L2 + L1 + heavy attack, etc. Or you can do different moves by the same button combinations depending on what abilities you have slotted.

 

[Phinnway]

• Think about a sword uppercut (L2 + heavy attack) that lets us launch an enemy in the air, and then juggle them with timed strikes.
• Think about a sword sweep move (L2 + fast attack) that lets us attack multiple enemies in front with a sweeping action.
• More combos can be done by using other combos like L1 + heavy attack, L2 + L1 + heavy attack, etc.

Problem with that is not everyone uses a controller. Adding more "hold down button to attack" like they did for heavy attacks would pretty much make gamepads the "official" controller type for Witcher 3 and relegate M&K an inefficient, second rate one.

 

[Holgaroni]

I enjoy W3's combat. Using insta-casting signs (not radial menu), quick dodges, counters, and controlling the battles is a lot of fun.

The following things will improve the combat however:

• Less long winded animations like pirouetting, and more quick efficient strikes
• Fix hit boxes such that only actual contact with the enemy strike damages you.
• Fix dodging to make it more consistent (i-frames should work regardless if you dodge immediately after dealing damage, doing damage, casting a sign).
• More NEW moves. Whirl, Rend, and alternate Signs are the only NEW moves you see in the whole game. Examples:
  • Think about a sword uppercut (L2 + heavy attack) that lets us launch an enemy in the air, and then juggle them with timed strikes.
  • Think about a sword sweep move (L2 + fast attack) that lets us attack multiple enemies in front with a sweeping action.
  • More combos can be done by using other combos like L1 + heavy attack, L2 + L1 + heavy attack, etc.

Actually there's nothing wrong with long animation, if we can interrupt them! I totally agree with the rest.

I'd love new combos/move but like Phinnway said it would be too hard to implement something like that with M/K :crybaby:

 

[whiplash27]

Combos would be great. Make the combos tied to adrenaline. Then have each combo unlock with certain skills. There are so many combinations of things that you can do for combos. Fast, Fast, Heavy, Fast; Fast, Heavy, Aard, Fast; Heavy, Heavy, Fast, Fast; Aard, Heavy, Fast, Igni; etc.

Can make all sorts of combinations that do all sorts of exciting stuff. Can even make Geralt do the types of stuff that you had him doing in TW1. Flips and all sorts of crazy things. Geralt should be able to do that kind of stuff.

 

[Exentryk]

Problem with that is not everyone uses a controller. Adding more "hold down button to attack" like they did for heavy attacks would pretty much make gamepads the primary controller type for Witcher 3 and relegate M&K an inefficient, second rate one.

I don't play with keyboards, but would having separate dedicated keys for special moves be better? I don't know what works best for keyboards, but I am sure people can figure out a control scheme that works better for them. The control scheme for controllers and keyboards doesn't have to be the same.

Actually there's nothing wrong with long animation, if we can interrupt them!

Agreed. I haven't thoroughly tested all fast attacks, so I'll reserve my reply until I do that (may be later tonight).

 

[Holgaroni]

Agreed. I haven't thoroughly tested all fast attacks, so I'll reserve my reply until I do that (may be later tonight).

Just tested it, with various enemies. Nope, you can't interrupt any attack. You have to wait that the animation ends. :cirisad:

EDIT: Tested it more, you can interrupt only the strong attacks but not the fast ones. Not interrupting the fast attacks can make sense, because they are already fast, but some of them are as long as the strong attacks! (Those with the leap)

 

[Exentryk]

EDIT: Tested it more, you can interrupt only the strong attacks but not the fast ones. Not interrupting the fast attacks can make sense, because they are already fast, but some of them are as long as the strong attacks! (Those with the leap)

Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to check before I replied, so thanks for testing. When using fast attacks, Geralt shouldn't be doing those long winded animations. And since we don't have control over when the long animation will trigger, it makes the combat feel less responsive. That's why I feel all pirouettes, leaps and long animations should just be reserved for only heavy attacks.

 

[DNMR2K5]

Found an interesting article from a games journalist who happens to be a sword enthusiast. He praises Witcher 3's combat for having a higher level of authenticity and doing a way with conventions. I thought it was worth a share.
http://www.gamesradar.com/witcher-3s-combat-isnt-flawed-its-just-more-real-you-expected/

Truly outstanding read, thanks for the link...Quite fitting your post, considering your Aragon avatar!

:nice:

 

[Adon604]

This thread is a helluva reach and it's borderline insulting our intelligence, I don't even have to read that link to know this "sword enthusiast" has no idea what he's talking about

None of Geralt's 360 spin move sword strikes would have been used on ANY BATTLEFIELD IN HISTORY... that's fact !
Real sword combat in ancient times is so much different than most people think it is, whether it's Knights, or Samurai.... for example I bet none of you even know that Japanese sword fighting between Samurai they actually avoided cutting across opponents and their armor, it was mostly about deflecting enemy blades and thrusting stabbing one's own blade in the weakpoints of the armor for the kill

 

[wolfheart14]

This thread is a helluva reach and it's borderline insulting our intelligence, I don't even have to read that link to know this "sword enthusiast" has no idea what he's talking about

Why everybody is failing so much to understand a text which explains a sword fighting tehchnique from different point of view ? The article underlines a lot more than throwing cuts or capacity to deflect throws and stabbing oponents.
When are we going to see in games sword fighting techniques like "Hema" and "Arma" techniques might take a long time because it will be implemented like comboes or QTE's but Witcher 2 , Middle earth : Shadow of Mordor , Dark souls 1,2,3 ,Kingdome come : Deliverence , Mount &Blade are just the beginning .And The Witcher 3 is bringing a bigger glimpse for improving the technique in games.Have you tried to dodge a throw cut instead while you using a stick against another?It is life risking matter and in reality the combat with swords is verry messy and fast.

 

[gtcarlson]

This thread is a helluva reach and it's borderline insulting our intelligence, I don't even have to read that link to know this "sword enthusiast" has no idea what he's talking about

None of Geralt's 360 spin move sword strikes would have been used on ANY BATTLEFIELD IN HISTORY... that's fact !
Real sword combat in ancient times is so much different than most people think it is, whether it's Knights, or Samurai.... for example I bet none of you even know that Japanese sword fighting between Samurai they actually avoided cutting across opponents and their armor, it was mostly about deflecting enemy blades and thrusting stabbing one's own blade in the weakpoints of the armor for the kill

Maybe next time read the posted article before saying it insults our intelligence. The writer mentions the use of impractical moves. He's praising the chaotic nature and the weight(as in the sword actions feel light) of the combat for the most part

 

[wolfheart14]

it was mostly about deflecting enemy blades and thrusting stabbing one's own blade in the weakpoints of the armor for the kill

I forgot about Assasin's Creed maybe you like more than Witcher 3.

 

[Adon604]

No hey listen I'm not about to get into a discussion with a bunch of video game guys on a video game forum about the finer points of video game swordplay, that's a hole one does not dig himself out of, lol

And no I did not read the link and I wont, I simply stated facts, facts which are true... the point of the fact is it's as CD Projekt Red brought in a hollywood movie director to be in charge of the sword combat in the game.
And that's the whole reason I said anything in the first place, is because this game's swordplay would have been SO much better with more realism and less hollywood.

 

[wolfheart14]

I'm not about to get into a discussion with a bunch of video game guys on a video game forum

And the reason of posting than.......?In fact ....another insulting quote from you....I am not only a video game guy....I am also an sword enthusiast guy who looks to have fun with sword fighting games not damn shooters.But I understand you ...until we will have a much more realism is when we are gonna understand and promote Hema and Arma techniques which will not be very easy to implement not even in movies cause it has to look and play cool not as messy and fast which in reality it is like that.
Play Middle earth:Shadow of Mordor for example, they quite succeed... to elaborate something cool . and believe from 5 bludgeoning hits from those orcs you are dead .And if you are not fast in couple of minutes you will be sorrounded by swarms of orcs.

 

[Sharpy47]

Great article and I think that W3 pretty much nailed Sword-Fighting compared to any game atm. To date - IMO it's the best sword-fighting combat game.

However I really liked this comment from a random dude in that article's comment section.

"If you're talking about realism of the sword fighting in this game, you are dead wrong if you are saying: "no matter how good a swordsman you are, fighting a coordinated group of opponents will almost certainly end up with you dead". You said it yourself in previous sentence that it's hard to imagine sword fighting with a creature that doesn't exist, yet you contradict yourself by focusing on how Geralt does sword fighting. Geralt is not a human, a witcher, something that also doesn't exist, so why he should do a realistic sword fighting as a human does?

Have you met Hjalmar in Undvik while playing the game? He said that his father often tell about how great the white wolf is when he was small, now he met Geralt when he is already an adult. Practically, Geralt is a living legend, his sword fighting would be unparalleled, can be full of flashy moves if he want to.

Have you seen the witcher 1 trailer where Geralt practice swords by the bonfire where at the end of the trailer he was fighting with pack of wolves? Do you think that moves is human? No, cause he is a witcher.

If you want to talk about realistic sword fight in this game, you shouldn't focus on Geralt, but focus on those Guards, Bandits, Pirates, etc. Look at how their movement whilst holding their swords, shields, clubs, etc. For me the way they behave is pretty real. If you're saying that Geralt moves is too inhuman, cause he is inhuman. It's like saying there is no way a human can move like Spiderman, well duh, he is a mutated superhero. "

 

[mw.islinger]

The bandits could make more of an effort the coordinate their attacks when fighting Geralt. Most of the time only one or two come charging at him while half a dozen are just watching. But that would really raise the difficulty especially in the early game.

 

[Sharpy47]

Most of the time only one or two come charging at him while half a dozen are just watching.

Hmm.. I can swear I died many times because I was attacked by MANY bandints at once on Death March difficulty. Tbh most enemies always attack me at once - especially the combo of regular swordsmans and axemans (those fking axemans!)

 

[mw.islinger]

Hmm.. I can swear I died many times because I was attacked by MANY bandints at once on Death March difficulty. Tbh most enemies always attack me at once - especially the combo of regular swordsmans and axemans (those fking axemans!)

That's good to know. I only played on the second highest difficulty so far...
Nekkers and Wolves for example are much better teamplayers even on non-deathmarch difficulty.