About drinking, eating and sleeping in RPGs...

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About drinking, eating and sleeping in RPGs...

I just finished Dragon Age Origins and realized that it lacks something very rare in modern rpg: the possibility of eating, sleeping, drinking...It may seem useless, but these small things makes the world more living and allow us to live the life of a character when he's not killing monsters or talking to have a new quest. In old-school Rpgs (baldur's gate, icewind dale), even if the graphics were poor, at least you could drink and sleep at a tavern...Fortunately, in The Witcher you can do all of this, so I hope that in The Witcher 2 they won't remove these elements. What do you think of this?
 
I agree. And I like that in the Witcher, drinking can be a minigame.But I don't think they need to go overboard with the realism and require you to actually eat on a regular basis. Dragon age lacks some realistic flourishes, to be sure.
 
slimgrin said:
I agree. And I like that in the Witcher, drinking can be a minigame.But I don't think they need to go overboard with the realism and require you to actually eat on a regular basis. Dragon age lacks some realistic flourishes, to be sure.
Agreed, as long as it isn't made into a necessity and more as a side or mini game deal then why not? The first handled it great and I would imagine the next one could as well. We definitely need some more drink offs! ;D
 
antho009 said:
I just finished Dragon Age Origins and realized that it lacks something very rare in modern rpg: the possibility of eating, sleeping, drinking...It may seem useless, but these small things makes the world more living and allow us to live the life of a character when he's not killing monsters or talking to have a new quest. In old-school Rpgs (baldur's gate, icewind dale), even if the graphics were poor, at least you could drink and sleep at a tavern...Fortunately, in The Witcher you can do all of this, so I hope that in The Witcher 2 they won't remove these elements. What do you think of this?
I totally disagree with this. There were no eating/drinking in BG/IWD except sleeping, which are mainly for spell system for (A)D&D.Indeed, eating/drinking/sleeping are suitable for sand-box style games whose one of the themes is survival such as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and "hard mode" of Fallout:New Vegas. However, these essences are rather irrelevant for more story-focused one and, of course, the Witcher is one of them.That said, I'd like to see Geralt can walk, climb and jump more wider places in the given area maps since I felt it unnatural for him, who is very agile in combat, not to be able to even climb and jump to places where don't seem to be irrationally reachable places although, in the opening movie, he climbs up to the tower and wait for the "princess" to give a not-so-romantic gift (just in case you have difficulty in remembering it, he gave a well-placed punch at the striga). According to one of the clips recently released, Geralt seems to be able to climb, which seems to be one of the benefit of the brand new home-brew engine.That said, please don't make a hasty judgment on what I wrote. I enjoyed some of the classics but I simply don't agree with the attitude where some people pick up some factors they liked from other games and think they should be in a game whose design and/or context are different from them.When I played the Witcher, I thought I'd like to take my time on making decisions and following possible stories rather than on bunch of mini-games. If some players want to play the Witcher in slower place, it's O.K. in my book as long as some "irrelevant" mini-games get in my way and slowing down my pace when the story became interesting. So, dice games and box games are O.K. since they are optional but forced resource managements are not welcome to me. In fact, I think that's why Obsidian decided to make their "hard mode" optional even it can be an important factor in post-apocalyptic adventure well, IMO.Going back to the Witcher, I think some classic factors in RPG won't fit it since they tend to slow down the story unnecessary. I even think inventory management is rather troublesome and I'd like the developers to come up with a way to let the players focus on the story, NPC relationships and difficult choices concerning them. Just in case someone should take what I am saying is dumbing down, I emphasize that it is a matter of focus. I'd like the story, characters, and the setting to be more polished and convincing at the level of novels/films since it is one of the important factors of the Witcher.
 
FlyingSquirrel said:
FlyingSquirrel said:
I just finished Dragon Age Origins and realized that it lacks something very rare in modern rpg: the possibility of eating, sleeping, drinking...It may seem useless, but these small things makes the world more living and allow us to live the life of a character when he's not killing monsters or talking to have a new quest. In old-school Rpgs (baldur's gate, icewind dale), even if the graphics were poor, at least you could drink and sleep at a tavern...Fortunately, in The Witcher you can do all of this, so I hope that in The Witcher 2 they won't remove these elements. What do you think of this?
I totally disagree with this. There were no eating/drinking in BG/IWD except sleeping, which are mainly for spell system for (A)D&D.Indeed, eating/drinking/sleeping are suitable for sand-box style games whose one of the themes is survival such as S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and "hard mode" of Fallout:New Vegas. However, these essences are rather irrelevant for more story-focused one and, of course, the Witcher is one of them.That said, I'd like to see Geralt can walk, climb and jump more wider places in the given area maps since I felt it unnatural for him, who is very agile in combat, not to be able to even climb and jump to places where don't seem to be irrationally reachable places although, in the opening movie, he climbs up to the tower and wait for the "princess" to give a not-so-romantic gift (just in case you have difficulty in remembering it, he gave a well-placed punch at the striga). According to one of the clips recently released, Geralt seems to be able to climb, which seems to be one of the benefit of the brand new home-brew engine.That said, please don't make a hasty judgment on what I wrote. I enjoyed some of the classics but I simply don't agree with the attitude where some people pick up some factors they liked from other games and think they should be in a game whose design and/or context are different from them.When I played the Witcher, I thought I'd like to take my time on making decisions and following possible stories rather than on bunch of mini-games. If some players want to play the Witcher in slower place, it's O.K. in my book as long as some "irrelevant" mini-games get in my way and slowing down my pace when the story became interesting. So, dice games and box games are O.K. since they are optional but forced resource managements are not welcome to me. In fact, I think that's why Obsidian decided to make their "hard mode" optional even it can be an important factor in post-apocalyptic adventure well, IMO.Going back to the Witcher, I think some classic factors in RPG won't fit it since they tend to slow down the story unnecessary. I even think inventory management is rather troublesome and I'd like the developers to come up with a way to let the players focus on the story, NPC relationships and difficult choices concerning them. Just in case someone should take what I am saying is dumbing down, I emphasize that it is a matter of focus. I'd like the story, characters, and the setting to be more polished and convincing at the level of novels/films since it is one of the important factors of the Witcher.
Well inventory management would include making oils, potions, etc., and doesn't at all take away from the story imho. I mean the game is more than just a great story full of unique characters and vibrant settings. It includes combat that makes you feel like a witcher, including preparing for each battle which is a HUGE part of the witcher's strength. To me the original had some minor issues with the original design for the inventory system, but they made it better and I never really had an issue with managing it afterwards. And Geralt needs some lighthearted fun on the side every once in a while. To me those drinking and fighting mini games were just as big a part of the story as killing the dogs in the streets. They were just part of a witcher's life.
 
I like the day/night cycle in games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Fallout and The Witcher and the way it breaks the "get quest, kill stuff" tedium. There's a game called Pathologic, that simply revolves around what decisions you make for 12 days and watch the world around you be affected by what you did or did not do, and they're some of the hardest choices i've had in a video game. It's a feature that makes gameplay experience a lot more unique and consistent. It should be developed further in The Witcher 2.
 
tshack88 said:
Well inventory management would include making oils, potions, etc., and doesn't at all take away from the story imho.
At the climax of the game, I couldn't find a good place to store the swords I've gotten in the Witcher while the designers, at least, could give a chance to me to check out the usefulness of them.
tshack88 said:
I mean the game is more than just a great story full of unique characters and vibrant settings. It includes combat that makes you feel like a witcher, including preparing for each battle which is a HUGE part of the witcher's strength.
Quite many of what you have written here have already been covered in my post. I wasn't hard on some optional mini-games, for example. Also, I agree with the action part is another important factor, which is why I welcomed the introduction of climbing. However, I avoided putting too much emphasis on action part since some people may ignore the context of my post and make this thread yet another console/PC argument (This kind of argument can be quickly heated up but they rarely produce any fruitful result). I think quick-paced action would fit the Witcher and, in this context, I understand why the designers are trying to improve the usability in general. However, getting rid of these nuisances doesn't necessarily end up with dumbing down. Even in PnP RPG sessions are different depending on the preference of each group. Indeed, some PnP role-players tend to look into the rule-set but, of course, depending on people you play with, there are more story-focused campaigns/sessions. I'd like to see CRPG, which focused on this aspect of role-playing and, having played the original Witcher, I think I have good reason to expect this aspect in its sequel, hopefully, in a more polished shape.
tshack88 said:
And Geralt needs some lighthearted fun on the side every once in a while. To me those drinking and fighting mini games were just as big a part of the story as killing the dogs in the streets. They were just part of a witcher's life.
I'm not sure about "killing dogs" part but some humors in character interactions are welcome, too. At least, I'd say, good riddance to the gift mini-game, I'd say since it makes PC-NPC relationships rather unconvincing. Indeed, some mini-games can make the game-play less monotonous but there are still many things the designer can do with their writing and set-ups.
tshack88 said:
I like the day/night cycle in games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Fallout and The Witcher and the way it breaks the "get quest, kill stuff" tedium. There's a game called Pathologic, that simply revolves around what decisions you make for 12 days and watch the world around you be affected by what you did or did not do, and they're some of the hardest choices i've had in a video game. It's a feature that makes gameplay experience a lot more unique and consistent. It should be developed further in The Witcher 2.
Day and night cycles make the world more convincing without troubling the players with forced-on mini-games and I'm not against it. Also, II'm not saying that all the mini-games should be gone but, adding mini-games without aforethought may end up with possible drawbacks.
 
When i play a Role Playing Game, i tell myself a story. And a story without breaks between the fights is not a good story. I can't breath in it, feel it. When i played those mini games with Geralt, i felt closer to him. It's like the books i like to read. The hero always have to sleep for recovering from exhaustion, eat, so that he won't starve (or give his sword a little blood, well... ), shortly, he/she must be real! Eating, drinking and sleeping in RPGs is always a feature i want to see.
 
I guess you guys will be wanting for players to wait 10 hours while your character sleeps next? 'cause you know, it's more immersive and realistic right????It's a game for christ's sake. People don't play games to tuck their characters into bed.
 
Frontl1ne said:
I guess you guys will be wanting for players to wait 10 hours while your character sleeps next? 'cause you know, it's more immersive and realistic right????It's a game for christ's sake. People don't play games to tuck their characters into bed.
It's a mechanic that actually saves time when there is a day/night cycle in the game and you need to wait for a certain time to do something. It's a core feature of the witcher, having to manage your time, to find certain NPCs, certain quests, access certain zone, find certain monsters. It makes the game alot less arcadey, alot more immersive and consistent and allows you to put more content in one zone.olololololol exclamationmarkexclamationmarkexclamationmark
 
Well, I don't need eating and drinking in a RPG game, for me it doesn't add to the gaming experience. If you wanted to make the game "realistic", then you would have to change a lot more than just adding things like eating and drinking - and I'm almost sure that all these side activities would take you out of the story instead of improving the experience.
 
Can't fight on an empty stomach. I remember playing a game, I think it was Arx, in which you needed to eat regularly to stay alive. In Witcher it seems a waste to eat a ham sandwich just to gain a little health. Concept of food and rest are important. It is what makes the game realistic, not just graphics.
 
Frontl1ne said:
I guess you guys will be wanting for players to wait 10 hours while your character sleeps next? 'cause you know, it's more immersive and realistic right????It's a game for christ's sake. People don't play games to tuck their characters into bed.
I hope we don't annoy you much, eh? (There is no need to be impolite, just to state your opinion).
I remember playing a game, I think it was Arx
Yes, it was. At first i liked the need of food there, but then i realized that it was a plus care to remember to always have enough food in my inventory.
 
It was a "bother" because it isn't a popular concept . If you had the food concept in most games, it won't be a bother anymore. It'll be a natural thing to sit by a campfire after a quest, whip out some pork chops and grill them and......you know....celebrate success or something.
 
I know this from other games and it mostly gets annoying after some time. I'm not very convinced of the theory that you would get used to it if it would be more common. As soon as you wouldn't be required to in a game you'd notice what a nuisance this actually is. I mean, come on, be honest. We've got our hands full already as it is, right?
 
Since in W1 food was used more for bribery or gifts than for restoration of health, I do hope that W2 can add more usefulness to them. :)
 
Wyvern meat and eggs gave excellent health regeneration. Ok..."excellent" was an exaggeration. But the were good enough. As were ham sandwiches or roast pork. Chicken was useless, as was any fruit/nut.As for bribes, the only food bribe I recall was the Hospital gardener. Others wanted booze. But no food....or am I missing something.....?
 
If I'm not mistaken there were some people who gave you information in exchange for food ... beggars or something, I can't remember clearly.
 
Chapter 4 in the murky waters village. If you give a lady elf some food, you can get real close to her. ;)Others were for exchange of information.
 
True.Food for information: Beggar in outskirts of Vizima, about nature of the "special lake monster". Useless.Food for story: Gardener in hospital, for origin of sword. Can be bypassed. Ramsmeat gives similar info on a different trail.Food for sex:Elf in cave in murky waters. But no veggies or bread. Must not be bypassed for the sake of....well...PS:Did not understand why the elf got so angry, and then why she had sex. Weird race, elves.
 
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