About monitors

[dragonbird]

About monitors

OK, so the discussion over in the main Witcher forum got me thinking about this. I think I need new monitors, but I have absolutely NO idea about all of the current technology stuf, except that a lot seems to have happened in the last few years. So I need some advice.

What I have: Two 20" 16x10 Dells, about seven years old.
How I use them: I tend to play games on a single monitor, often windowed, with the second monitor being used for other things, like watching the forums. I drag windows between monitors a lot.
I don't use 3D, nor am I likely to.
I don't use my computer as a primary method of viewing movies or TV, nor am I likely to.
I have a single GTX670 and don't want to upgrade in the next year, but will when I have to. I don't want to go with SLI or Crossfire in the foreseeable future.
I have enough desk space to handle two x 24", or a single 48".

Questions: Can someone explain in simple language all of the new features that monitors seem to have got over the last few years? And how important they are?
Does anyone have a 21x9 aspect ratio monitor. If so, can you tell me if it can be configured so that I can move stuff around as easily as with the dual-monitor setup?

 

[GuyNwah]

The ability of higher-quality monitors to present color completely and accurately has been much improved in recent years.

Much of the difference is not in screen size or pixel resolution but in LCD technology. Apart from really exotic stuff like OLED (Organic LED), the market has shaken down to two technologies.

TN (Twisted Nematic) is the common, inexpensive technology. Its virtues are that it is inexpensive and that it is fast. Fast, in monitors used for gaming or video, translates to no blurring or ghosting of objects in motion. Its drawbacks are that it has limited viewing angle (this is the kind of monitor that looks dim, or false color, or black from the wrong viewing angle) and limited color fidelity (it can only do about 6 bits per pixel; monitors try to look like they're displaying more accurate colors by dithering).

IPS (In-Plane Switching) is the professional, expensive technology. Its virtues are that it can do excellent color presentation and that it has good viewing angle. Modern IPS screens are about as good at representing the usable gamut of colors as it gets. They do not have narrow limits on acceptable viewing angles. Its drawbacks are that it is historically expensive and slow. Expensive means it adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of the monitor. Slow translates to blurring or ghosting of objects in motion, which is objectionable in gaming or video.

Much work has gone into reducing the cost of IPS monitors while maintaining and improving their color quality and speed. Good modern IPS monitors will not have ghosting problems, and they should render colors superbly.

Historically, it has been hard to tell whether a given make and model will have a TN or an IPS screen. Manufacturers have substituted TN screens in well-known IPS models, without notice or apology. Professionals and enthusiasts who don't take that kind of crap have forced them to abandon this practice for high-end monitors.

Currently, the Dell monitors sold as UltraSharp to the professional market, with prices from less than $400 to more than $1000, are about the best deal going. Even Dell has finally realized that cutting corners and cheating customers on high-end monitors does not pay.

 

[Dona.794]

I'll just echo the recommendation of Dell UltraSharp, I've had mine for 3 years and it's wonderful. One of the cheaper models, too. Never had any ghosting issues and the colours are great (it seems to have minor issues displaying really bright reds, but it's not noticeable unless you're doing some graphical work).

 

[volsung]

That was an excellent summary of the state of monitors in general, thanks.

So for reasonable gaming and movie watching, which monitors between 24" and 32" with resolutions of 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 (maybe also 2560x1440 just because) would be THE monitors to get?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

From Ultrasharps with 1920x1200 there are two: U2412M and U2413. Second one is supposed to be more professional and has better color / contrast characteristics (plus it looks like it has smaller response time which should be better for gaming). Higher resolution models bump the price quite significantly.

I personally find monitors larger than 24" to be uncomfortable to use, unless you place them in a distance (for which you need a large work area).

 

[dragonbird]

Thanks, that WAS useful.
So if I don't need the viewing angle, it sounds as though I would probably be better with a good-quality TN model.

So does anyone have a large monitor (say 48") on a desktop environment? I really can't decide whether the extra height is a benefit or just a nuisance. I'm starting to think I'd prefer to stick to dual monitor (say 2 x 24"), because my gut feel is the same as Gilrond said.

(Oh, good, there is a Dell Philippines. I wasn't sure...)

Edit: How useful is going for 120Hz, assuming it's available? It seems to keep getting recommended in various places, but I've seen some suggestions that it's only really a benefit if you use 3D.

Edit 2: OK, so the U2412M is IPS, and it doesn't look as though the U2413 is available here. But the 2412M does look good...

 

[volsung]

Would the 8 ms GTG on that U2412M be an issue with games? Normally "gaming" monitors are 5 ms or less. Don´t know if it actually makes a difference.

What about something like this Asus for non professional uses? Seems like it's not a "real" IPS but something in between, and a fraction of the price.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

That's what I've heard as well. That for gaming, response time should not be significantly higher than 5 ms. So it's worth researching how U2412M is reviewed in this aspect.

 

[sidspyker]

Hmm quite the price for monitors

 

[GuyNwah]

That's what I've heard as well. That for gaming, response time should not be significantly higher than 5 ms. So it's worth researching how U2412M is reviewed in this aspect.

Some purists want that response time down to 2ms. 8ms can be noticeable. The U2412M has been criticized for that, especially by FPS players. It depends a lot on how much it bothers you, and where you want to put the compromise between color, cost, and speed.

 

[volsung]

Hmm quite the price for monitors

Consider how much people spend in top of the line graphics cards, and their expected lifetime. A good monitor can last many years, probably through at least 2 video cards or even 3 or more if you upgrade frequently. I'd say a good monitor may be worth the price since it's one of those components with a longer expected lifetime, like speakers or even keyboards.

 

[dragonbird]

I think speed is more important than colour, this time.
So I'm currently looking at:
BENQ 24" RL2450H
or
BENQ 24" XL2420T (but if I get this, I think I'll only get one. Keep one of my Dells as a second monitor)

And yes, I've got through two PC's and about four graphics cards during the life of these monitors, so I'm looking at something that will last. But I don't want to pay for stuff that I don't anticipate needing.

 

[GuyNwah]

To me, the monitor, keyboard, and mouse are the most important parts of the computer. They're also the ones hardly anybody ever asks questions about :hmmm: Maybe because they're the most personal choices. They're what you interact with, and they're what wear out your eyes and wrists and fingers if they're not well suited to you.

I'm tempted to try a 21:9 monitor. I wear bifocals set up for reading distance in the lower one-third to one-half of my field of view, and a 27-inch 16:9 is too tall, and a side-by-side pair of 24-inch is too wide.

 

[dragonbird]

When I was in Singapore, I had the variable-focus glasses that were supposed to be set for reading, monitor and distance, but I was never happy with them, there just didn't seem to be enough surface area for any one task. I ended up with single-purpose glasses scattered around, one at the sewing machine, one at the computer, one for actually reading stuff, one in the car, all different strengths.

 

[Sagitarii]

I need to upgrade my monitor (4:3 master race). Don't know much about them, so have you got any recommendations? Preferably up to 24", 1080p, IPS (I need good viewing angles). And decent price - 150$ thereabout.
Was thinking about something like ASUS VS239H-P

 

[GuyNwah]

I need to upgrade my monitor (4:3 master race). Don't know much about them, so have you got any recommendations? Preferably up to 24", 1080p, IPS (I need good viewing angles). And decent price - 150$ thereabout.
Was thinking about something like ASUS VS239H-P

Compare Acer H6 Series H236HLbid. Both are basic IPS monitors. The Acer has a very narrow bezel but also a glossy screen that picks up reflections. The kit also includes an HDMI cable (and a power brick, typical for Acer monitors). The ASUS has a matte screen, which usually looks better. Its kit does not include an HDMI cable (just DVI and VGA).

 

[Sagitarii]

Compare Acer H6 Series H236HLbid. Both are basic IPS monitors. The Acer has a very narrow bezel but also a glossy screen that picks up reflections. The kit also includes an HDMI cable (and a power brick, typical for Acer monitors). The ASUS has a matte screen, which usually looks better. Its kit does not include an HDMI cable (just DVI and VGA).

Thanks, looks good, but I think I need a matte screen (my room has a lot of sunlight - even with my matte 17" it gets annoying). Is there any manufacturer I should aviod?

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

A detailed review of Dell Ultrasharp U2413: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2413.htm

 

[CostinRaz]

I've got a weird situation with my monitor, it's an SA300 from Samsung. What's been happening is that the right side of my screen goes pretty dark, I can still see things there but it's frustrating.

Funny thing is that if I set my brightness on my monitor to 99 it get's bright again...then start's flickering just on that side.

 

[GuyNwah]

I've got a weird situation with my monitor, it's an SA300 from Samsung. What's been happening is that the right side of my screen goes pretty dark, I can still see things there but it's frustrating.

Funny thing is that if I set my brightness on my monitor to 99 it get's bright again...then start's flickering just on that side.

Sounds like drivers for the LEDs on that side of the backlight. Older and low-end Samsung models (and the SA300 is, sorry to say, low-end) are notorious for capacitor failures taking out the backlight.

If you have the ability and equipment to do printed circuit board repair, you may be able to fix it yourself. If you're interested in pursuing that, here's a bloke who's posted videos on how to get into the monitor and fix things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXO-lPvNps