After Cyberpunk I hope CDPR reconsiders their push towards open world games...

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If you are going to have a story driven RPG, it works best in an open world. The First two Witcher games were linear in nature, although TW was a tad more open. 3 was fantastic and a lot to do. Admittedly, I guess it can be intimidating, especially before you get the Fast Travel points opened up. If you are going to just start at Point "A" and then once you have completed that, move on to Point "B" , then that isn't much of an RPG. For instance, if TW3 was done in the manner that you suggest, I wouldn't even be able to play it the way I am at the moment, I have yet to meet the Wild Hunt, have completed Heart of Stone, and messing around in Blood & Wine and am at level 46. I am getting close to meeting the Wild Hunt as I just got the Sunstone. I decided to take it a little differently this time to get my people around a little longer, although Yen will turn up in Blood & Wine. To go linear, would be going backwards.
 
Let's see if they still exist, period. Then we'll see if they've learned anything. I seriously hope the devs cut their ties with this company and form their own.
 
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If you are going to have a story driven RPG, it works best in an open world. The First two Witcher games were linear in nature, although TW was a tad more open. 3 was fantastic and a lot to do. Admittedly, I guess it can be intimidating, especially before you get the Fast Travel points opened up. If you are going to just start at Point "A" and then once you have completed that, move on to Point "B" , then that isn't much of an RPG. For instance, if TW3 was done in the manner that you suggest, I wouldn't even be able to play it the way I am at the moment, I have yet to meet the Wild Hunt, have completed Heart of Stone, and messing around in Blood & Wine and am at level 46. I am getting close to meeting the Wild Hunt as I just got the Sunstone. I decided to take it a little differently this time to get my people around a little longer, although Yen will turn up in Blood & Wine. To go linear, would be going backwards.
I don't know, Deus Ex is extremely linear story-wise and it's one of the most replayable games out there. I think all you need for a good RPG is proper world-building that creates an immersive environment, and plenty of good writing. Whether it's a big map where you pick quests or a level after another makes no difference imo
 
I do admit that after a while clearing out a bandit camp number 65 or monster nest number 54 kinda isn't as exiting as it was at start. :p In that sense the game (Witcher 3) might have been too large.. just after a while you're thinking Why would I need to go to every possible corner and check every possible bush for content... The stories of people stashing their goods somewhere and then dying to something before they could come back for them started to become repetitive at one point... But then you sometimes run into some interesting content you didn't expect while you just expected more of the old and that's super exciting. :D
But still I loved the game greatly! ^-^ And I still think the TW3 is the best game I've ever played! :O
 
Yeah, I love open world games, but when it comes to RPG, choice and consequence, I much prefer the collection of smaller locations that exist somewhat independantly of each other.

It gives the entire team much more freedom and ease to make sweeping changes and explore more focused narratives in those areas. Really allowing for broader choice and consequence that can impact wholesale changes to an environment and it's characters.

I love and adore The Witcher 3, but the world design in The Witcher 1 I find much more enjoyable.

This is purely personal of course, but games with hubs I've completed multiple, multiple times. Games with open worlds I've completed significantly less. Mass Effect, KOTOR, Dragon Age Origin, Witcher 1 , each one of those games has tens or twenties of playthroughts from start to finish.

The Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition from start to finish I can count on my hands. I also need more downtime between playthroughts, "open world exhaustion" seems to be a thing with my open world playthroughs. Losing interest and desire to play after exploring them for too long.
 
While I agree, this is a lost cause. The reason why so many developers go the open world route with RPGs, is because they sell a lot more copies than linear RPGs.

Skyrim sold more copies than Mass Effect 3, for example.
 
If you are going to just start at Point "A" and then once you have completed that, move on to Point "B" , then that isn't much of an RPG.
It works shiny well for Deus Ex and Baldurs Gate series and Dragon Age Origins - TW3 isn't worse for doing something else though, it's there along with these classics in my personal top 10 just like RDR2 and C2077.
GTAV isn't even close to said top 10, nor is Saints Row 3-4 - comparing those to the above is literally the same as comparing Fortnite to Hitman - completely different things for a completely different purpose.


Let's see if they still exist, period. Then we'll see if they've learned anything. I seriously hope the devs cut their ties with this company and form their own.
if they did split - it would not be to make a GTA goof sandbox. Getting you GTA fans and reaction video watchers on board was a marketing dept/management decision and it was the sole thing that backfired. TBH the increased preorders it brought were not worth it, it did harm the company long term.
 
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I believe CDPR became too big to reconsider their major releases to be anything less than faux open world. Unless open world suddenly fall out of fashion like RTS or point and click adventure games... They owe it to investors to promise large sales and open world sells the best.

Only if they open a smaller studio within itself and let them do more experimental things...
 
Sorry to resurrect this thread but I was trying to think about what this game does mean for cdpr. Part of the problem for this game is that is tried a LOT of new systems and mechanics that as far as I know cdpr has never done before (as a whole, individual devs of course may have had their own experience):
  1. A new IP
    1. Futuristic setting
    2. First Person
    3. A Shooter
    4. Far different movement mechanic than previous game
    5. Vehicles, that ideally should have a complex traffic system
    6. high density NPCs, that ideally should have a complex reaction and interatibility
    7. A new dynamic dialogue options which are not played in cutscenes (unlike TW3)
These are only a fraction of all the new things that cdpr had to do with cyberpunk, and I do believe that they did indeed bit off a bit more than they could chew with the timeframe that they had. I think that if they had not done so much promo material and didn't claim this game to be such a "next-gen" experience they would not receive as much flak as they are taking right now. That being said, in my opinion, the main story of cyberpunk is about as good as other open world games main story. In regards to it lacking what makes open world games great, I believe cyberpunk2077 is about 65-70% there in successfully creating a freeflowing, engaging, emergent gameplay.

Combining all the things they wanted this game to be with all the problems that arose from all the things I said earlier alongside crunches and deadlines, scope creep definitely prevented a lot of core mechanics from being polished. Core mechanics that Rockstar has a foundational knowledge of from previous iterations of GTA that cdpr does not have with cp2077. All in all as someone who kept my expectations subdued, I'm not as overtly angry or disappointed as others who bought into the hype. I simply look forward to future patches and dlcs, and I can honestly say that if they learned their lesson from the development period of this game, Cyberpunk 2 could possibly live up to the hype that people were expecting from Cyberpunk2077 due to not having to start from near 0.
 
A game does not have to be truly open world to be enjoyable and sell well. As long as it is not a linear run and gives the player some options what to do and where to go, it should be fine.
 
I think there needs to be a greater distinction between "open world" and "sandbox". They are distinct.

An open-world will simply provide a non-linear pathway through the game's content. However, it can still be heavily structured for the purposes of pacing, balancing gameplay mechanics, and creating a narrative arc. Games like L.A. Noire, Dragon's Dogma, or Cyberpunk 2077 are like this. In my opinion, the "sandbox" elements are there to add a little variety and allow the player some wiggle-room to roleplay "off-road". However, it's not really the main focus of the game itself, but rather the backdrop for a more balanced, narrative exploration (which still offers a lot of variety and cause-effect role playing...if you like that approach.)

A sandbox on the other hand is more about creating a set of tools, environments, and circumstances that the player can explore simply for the sake of exploring. Stories tend to be the backdrop to the world in these games. Just ways of highlighting the various mechanics and gameplay elements available out-of-the-gate. The purpose of sandbox games is to literally go anywhere and do anything, not try to tell a moving story. The X Series of space simulations, Mount and Blade, or Minecraft. Stories set in these games tend to be mostly or completely linear, and I would argue don't really offer more than a way of flavoring what is inherently a mess of individual mechanics that can be put together any which way.

Most games work somewhere between the two extremes. A game like Detroit: Become Human is almost wholly devoted to an open-ended, interactive narrative, with opportunities provided to explore "open" but contained environments here and there, some customization options, etc. A game like Terraria is the opposite extreme, where the game can basically be played and explored endlessly, as a platform / brawler, a lite rpg, or a crafter / building game without ever really engaging in what little "story" is there. Something like GTA or Red Dead is super light on the RPG elements in terms of stats, weapon and combat variety, and story pacing...but really heavy on the sandbox. And Cyberpunk 2077 is more limited in sandbox elements in order to create a pretty deep narrative.

As always, it comes down to preference. Whether I like or dislike a certain approach, that doesn't invalidate the other approaches. There is no correct way to do things. There are just individual designs that many people like more than others.

Personally, I love the Cyberpunk narrative. I was absolutely engaged by main story, short as it may be. I felt there was a lot of cause-effect gameplay, and tons of role-playing both in and out of combat...even if it may not be as stark as other games. (But, I won't mind seeing some of the bugs and clunky features receive a nice buff and polish. I swear, if one more cop spawns out of the blue to shoot me in the back because I happened to miss a target I was trying to stealth-snipe with a pistol...from waaay beyond a reasonable range...and it just so randomly happened to hit some passerby instead...! Look...! Either you want my help or you don't, NCPD! :D )
 
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