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Aglais needs to be reworded or changed

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murph33-

User
#1
Deploy: On turn end, double the amount of boosts on self.

But that's not true. It's "On turn end, of the first turn that has boosts applied to Aglais, double them"

Lost a match to this because I thought the card did what it said. 0 boosts is an amount of boosts. Doubling 0 is 0. Boosting her the next turn should absolutely not activate the deploy ability and the only reason anyone would think it would would be because they already knew that's how it works.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#2
So, the opponent played Aglaïs and, next turn, she got double points from a boost? That's a bug.
 
#3
So, the opponent played Aglaïs and, next turn, she got double points from a boost? That's a bug.
He/she means Aglais doesn't activate until given a boost. So if you hand-buff Aglais she will activate at the end of the turn when placed on the board. If you place an unbuffed Aglais on the board she will not activate until given a boost.
 

Shabman

User
#4
In fairness, the tooltip implies that the boost should happen on Deploy (or should already be on) in order for it to double. Should be reworded if that is not what is meant.

Indeed, as I discovered in a match yesterday (yes I still play very rarely) I was able to boost Aglais a few turns after deploying her and it worked. Mwahahahaha

I wonder if it was me you were playing against murph.

You had some NR deck and I had Eithne with lots of Geralts and Aglais and some mega-boosting dwarves?
 

murph33-

User
#5
Nah. I had discard beasts. My two last cards in the deck I had could apply lock and I had a discard left. Second to last turn they bring out Aglais with isengrim's council which I thought was bricked because they didn't do anything with it. The tooltip doesn't say it needs to be handbuffed, just that at the end of the turn Aglais is deployed it will have whatever boost is applied doubled. Not on deploy. Just on the turn when she is deployed.
 

nedders

User
#6
All of these cards are just deal dependent, there's no deep strategic thinking involved. You get a pacey deal to start and win R1, then get Aglais and a number of "boost hand in deck" cards, hurray - you win.

Fail in any of these random deal mechanics, you lose.
 

Shabman

User
#7
The tooltip doesn't say it needs to be handbuffed, just that at the end of the turn Aglais is deployed it will have whatever boost is applied doubled. Not on deploy. Just on the turn when she is deployed.
yeah that's what I meant
 
#8
It probably should be looked into since it's inconsistent with other deploy effects. As in they're supposed to activate when the unit is deployed, or hits the board. In the case of Aglais it would appear the deploy activates the effect on her and, upon turn end, any buffs applied are doubled. In other words, the buff double isn't the deploy effect. Deploying her merely... tags her with the buff double effect.
 

Iuliandrei

User
#9
It probably should be looked into since it's inconsistent with other deploy effects. As in they're supposed to activate when the unit is deployed, or hits the board.
And it does, there is nothing wrong with the tooltip, but the interaction explained by the OP seems like a bug.

What the deploy does is instantly apply an invisible buff on Aglais that practically says "on the end of the turn double the amount of boosts".
 

Shabman

User
#10
And it does, there is nothing wrong with the tooltip, but the interaction explained by the OP seems like a bug.

What the deploy does is instantly apply an invisible buff on Aglais that practically says "on the end of the turn double the amount of boosts".
What the OP is explaining is not a bug.

You can drop Aglais, not boost her, wait couple of turns, boost her and the boost will be doubled.
 

Mr_Mugglez

User
#12
haha here we bloody go again. anti-ST.
I've been using her since HC and her name hardly comes up. I naturally only shared my way of using her, with my fellow ST bretheren. I can get her up to 42. With two cards left.

You figure it out he he
 

murph33-

User
#13
haha here we bloody go again. anti-ST.
I've been using her since HC and her name hardly comes up. I naturally only shared my way of using her, with my fellow ST bretheren. I can get her up to 42. With two cards left.

You figure it out he he
No. Just not at all. You've entirely missed the point. The ability is fine, or the wording is fine. Wording that is not accurate to the ability is not fine.
 

Shabman

User
#14
The ability should trigger only once, in the turn you played her.
Yes, that's what should happen according to the tooltip.

But in reality that is not true. Try it. Play Aglais, leave her alone for a few turns, then use Swallow or something on her. Watch what happens.
 
#15
haha here we bloody go again. anti-ST.
It's not anti-ST. Deploy effects are... deploy effects. If a card has a deploy ability it's expected for said ability to activate when the card has been placed on the board. Not 2-3 turns later. If Aglais is going to work as she does the deploy wording should probably be removed and, "On turn end, double the amount of boosts on self.", should be the card description instead of, "Deploy: On turn end, double the amount of boosts on self.". It would be more consistent with the way the ability works.

I wouldn't say Aglais is necessarily broken because of her ability wording. She has a 2 body so placing her on the board without buffs and buffing her on a subsequent turn is very risky. Even buff heavy decks probably have some way to deal 2 damage. The only way I've found a way to ensure she can be used without hand-buff or by placing an on-demand buff option on the board beforehand is with Fran.

I would say Aglais is questionable design. For one, she is one of those cards where when facing her the options typically boil down to resetting/removing her or losing the game. Usually, without last say, your options boil down to losing the game. I've never been a fan of such design. Furthermore, there is no way to really know she behaves as she does based on the card wording itself. Card wording shouldn't be ambiguous. Yeah, sometimes it happens. Even so, it should be corrected when it's recognized.
 

murph33-

User
#16
No she obviously isn't OP or honestly even good. Barely even viable from what I've seen. My only complaint is that the wording and her ability are different.
 

kryton24

User
#17
Hrm I've been using Aglais in my ST main deck for awhile now and never found this out if it's true, I never accidentally tried boosting her outside of her deploy though like the card would suggest is the only way to utilize her.

If this is intended... I don't think this makes her any more scary though since just lock her / kill her she has 2 HP. I'd argue this makes her only less feasible then last turn using her due to the nature of having her dead or halted before use. Only thing I can possibly think this would boost her in a Francesca using Garrison on her a turn after if she is still alive then re-applying it afterward with her ability for +40 boost?

But then again.... same counters to this would still work on Aglais on last turn deploy which is removing her boost, scorch wipe, etc. Her power strength has always seemingly revolved around having final say or else she is RIP vs most competitive decks I have found.
 

murph33-

User
#18
of course krypton. But if you saw someone just put out Aglais and have their turn end would you still bother to lock / kill her? I just assumed she was a brick because the turn had ended so I didn't lock her or destroy her. The next turn double garrison and then her deploy ability is still working?? Yeah it's obviously not good and very frail but it is something that could happen to anyone else that doesn't know how Aglais actually works and only knows how it says it works.
 
#19
But if you saw someone just put out Aglais and have their turn end would you still bother to lock / kill her?
Yes, I would. Only because I've experimented with Aglais and noticed her buff proc ability works the way it does. As you said it requires knowing this before-hand. Which is why I can understand the complaint.
 

Mr_Mugglez

User
#20
I found out within a few times of playing her how to use her best. You don't always get garrison (big problem) so that's auto-lose match. In the end I had to do everything possible to make sure I had one or the other for R3. So that meant having less gold cards.

As I say a barely play ranked anymore. Last time I did I was drunk and lost 6-0. That was with my "gold" deck though haha literally as many golds as possible that had little or no synergy.