AI is the absolutely worst part of the game

+
Even worse than bugs. It's ridiculously bad. It's as if professors of art met with gurus of sound, masters of writing (well, maybe not masters because W3's writing was better, this is good but far from perfect) and a bunch of random coders found on the street, partially AI interns that never touched computers before they got the job. And the overhyped announcements tried to persuade us this will be an entirely different experience when it comes to gaming, city living its own life, made by Einsteins of AI. But the AI is worse than in some 2000s games that I recall, especially when it comes to city crowd. Let me explain in detail.

Quests

AI in quests is probably the best AI in the game, however, it's still quite lackluster. My observations:
- Blue star events are terrible, often you're driving somewhere, you stop to prevent something that apparently needs immediate care. Most often it's about rescuing some people in distress. So you kill/incapacitate their and you'd assume you're getting something for that, right? Nope! The saved NPCs don't even care about thanking you. They run away or stay in "I'm scared" position forever until you leave.
- Friendly characters during missions make absolutely no sense in some situations. Example - the last act 1 mission, escaping the hotel with Jackie. If you try to be stealthy, you can often see Jackie running right in front of enemies without any reaction from them. While on top he loudly makes snarky comments about you being visible...
- Enemies can be blind at times, especially if you're fighting with melee weapons. They can hide around corners and do absolutely nothing until you come next to them and hit their head with a baseball bat. At other times they can spot you through smallest holes (e.g. opened car door) from like 50 metres.
- They are also often not adjusted to the quests. For example, there's a quest where you need to plant a tracker in Russian fixer's car and it is said that the docks workers need to be extra careful. Yet they work like all regular enemies - they can stand in one place and watch in completely irrelevant direction.
- Incapacitation includes short ache cues for opponents to react to, but they rarely do. You can incapacitate someone right next to 2 other people looking in a different direction and they might stay unaware. Sound cues in general seem to be mostly ignored.
- Some quests definitely feel like they should be on a timer/more tight timer. E.g. the guy with broken penis implant, I drove 2 times in the wrong direction and we were still on time, maybe there's a timer but it's too loose if he's really in pain.


Traffic

Vehicles are far from smart. Your car can get to you from anywhere but the rest can't even handle basic road interactions. Many games had better logic for them.
- Blocking entire crossroad with a vehicle in the middle is the complete opposite of expected realism.
- Getting off the predefined path is solved by the simpliest algorithm possible - moving back and forth until they manage to drive in a straight line on any available path. Here's the funniest result I found, a car trying to end its existence by banging its front against a wall, maybe it has cybepsychosis:
- If you flip a car on its side/back it explodes, I don't think that's how physics work. The people inside of it get out of it right before explosion and die.
- Stealing a car results most often in scared people not only not trying to get it back but also waiting next to it to be ran over by you. Police never reacts to stealing a car, even if they're close, I guess it's a crime not worth reporting/looking at?
- There are no public communication or public service vehicles on the roads. More of an issue with world building than AI, but including it because it ruins the immersion. You only see some drones from time to time, but buses don't exist and police cars/fire trucks/food delivery etc. are apparently unnecessary for the city to function.
- Other cars apparently always obey law, even though there are so many gangs and thefts of vans (side quests).


Crowd

People walking around the town are definitely the most ridiculus part. Nothing is good apart from some rare extraordinary events, like someone jumping off a bridge. Here are the worst aspects:
- You can't truly interact with almost anything in the city. Food stands don't sell you food except chosen one because... who knows since the dialogue doesn't really tell you. And of course other random people almost never have anything interesting to tell you either.
- You can punch someone and they don't really react. Other people are panicking though.
- Hitting people with non-lethal weapons seem to kill them regardless of whether they're women or buff men.
- You can kill someone walking lonely in a totally empty place otherwise and someone will instantly report that crime and police will use teleportaton techniques to get to you. Yet they can't use this type of techniques in fights or to catch crimes they know about...
- People that have different type of routines, e.g. repairing something, often keep doing it forever.
- Routines are very unrealistic anyways, I don't think I've ever seen anyone entering a car or building other than a club or shop you can access.
- Gangsters on streets never seem to react to anything that isn't you. I only managed to have them interact by like forcing some random car to drive into one of them while trying to get back on path (see vehicles above). And they shoot that person instead of me causing the chaos but apparently it wasn't dead after few shots since it still was struggling. But it died to the first baseball bat hit of mine

I really hope at least some of those will get fixed in January's patch. But then they had 8 (!) years to develop a better AI so I doubt it will get fixed much in any near feature.
 
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I mean, Witcher 3 was very buggy at the start too... Maybe they require the motivation of disappointed fans to work harder or something.
 
I'm torn. I have the game and I like it personally. But what they did to a decent portion of current gen players was pretty unforgivable.

The game is playable, but there is a lot of stuff that was taken out, and a lot of stuff (mechanics) that are lacking. CDPR has a long list of items to look at per feedback in the community. And I think that the list of items you just have shown would take a complete revamp of the base development they used. They were in way over their heads, they knew it, and they decided to pull a stunt like EA.

Ideally, I would love for them to fix everything and make it just like they portrayed it was going to be. But, they already have their money. The game already has that sour taste and I wouldn't be surprised if people just forget about this game in a short while.

On top of everything. I am starting to think that businesses are secretly adopting the business value of (get the money, forget the product, move on).

Let me explain why this is a good strategy. They marketed the heck out of this game, like EA with Anthem. CDPR promised all this stuff and got people's rocks off. They started showing gameplay, mechanics, vehicle customization, character customization. They created the implication of something that was never going to be fully realized. Then they pull the plug on all the really cool or staple mechanics. Maybe for time constraints, maybe it was never possible and they needed the sales. All these upset people are pissed and out of $60. It's not enough money to get upset over for months or years as an individual. And these same people could never get united over this issue and actually take a stance to make a significant impact on CDPR to change this kind of garbage behavior. People are upset for a time, then move on, allowing a company to just take millions of dollars of profit without even a slap on the wrist. A drop in stock is always going to happen and isn't really a slap on the wrist.

And it's crazy to think that this product generated $480,000,000 from 8 million copies. Would you think you deserve a million dollars for an unfinished vacuum cleaner product design?

Sorry for the rant.

Much love,

-The peskiest
 
The game is just a bad Far Cry with useless retarded NPCs.

Everything besides the story is boring. Driving is horrible...

How can people say they like this? First Game?

No fractions, you can't buy houses, nothing you do matters,
customization is non existent after character creation.....

The list goes on... Repetitive piece of shiny junk.

Let's not forget the lies... Advertisement is still running in german TV promising that you can be whoever you want to be while this game is just linear with fake choices that don't do anything.

Just a mediocore SP CoD in the Future.

CDPR is on the same black list as EA now. Not gonna buy a game from them again. Hate liers!
 
I pre-ordered for the immersion and features CDPR advertised.... Trusted them because they delivered on Witcher 3.

I regretted on my first pre-order in my entire life and will think twice in the future.
Compare this “We believe that having a world you can interact with and which reacts to your presence is a key part of a good open-world experience,” Tost said. “Dynamic environments ultimately serve to fulfill that promise exactly: they help to enhance your immersion, the game world to become more alive and believable, and — what’s especially important when it comes to Cyberpunk 2077 — add a whole different level of weight and grit. Combat becomes that much more vicious too, enhancing the feeling of a world shrouded in violence and danger. Given all that, let me just say that we’re working hard on making sure that our environments look just as good when they’re untouched as when they’re getting blown up, without sacrificing the performance.”
Cyberpunk 2077 Interview – Discussing the Setting, Freedom of Choice, Side Quests, and More (gamingbolt.com)

with :




Instead of "We believe that having a world you can interact with and which reacts to your presence, Dynamic environments, the game world to become more alive and believable" we got brain-dead AI-NPC, almost no interactivity, dead open world with almost nothing to do besides quests.
 
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Guest 4531385

Guest
Let me explain why this is a good strategy. They marketed the heck out of this game, like EA with Anthem. CDPR promised all this stuff and got people's rocks off. They started showing gameplay, mechanics, vehicle customization, character customization. They created the implication of something that was never going to be fully realized. Then they pull the plug on all the really cool or staple mechanics. Maybe for time constraints, maybe it was never possible and they needed the sales. All these upset people are pissed and out of $60. It's not enough money to get upset over for months or years as an individual. And these same people could never get united over this issue and actually take a stance to make a significant impact on CDPR to change this kind of garbage behavior. People are upset for a time, then move on, allowing a company to just take millions of dollars of profit without even a slap on the wrist. A drop in stock is always going to happen and isn't really a slap on the wrist.
After "Witcher 3", I'm not ready to accept it.
I am fully aware that everything in this world has a beginning and an end.
But it's terrible if CDPR sold their souls to the corporate devil
 
games have limits
Even worse than bugs. It's ridiculously bad. It's as if professors of art met with gurus of sound, masters of writing (well, maybe not masters because W3's writing was better, this is good but far from perfect) and a bunch of random coders found on the street, partially AI interns that never touched computers before they got the job. And the overhyped announcements tried to persuade us this will be an entirely different experience when it comes to gaming, city living its own life, made by Einsteins of AI. But the AI is worse than in some 2000s games that I recall, especially when it comes to city crowd. Let me explain in detail.

Quests

AI in quests is probably the best AI in the game, however, it's still quite lackluster. My observations:
- Blue star events are terrible, often you're driving somewhere, you stop to prevent something that apparently needs immediate care. Most often it's about rescuing some people in distress. So you kill/incapacitate their and you'd assume you're getting something for that, right? Nope! The saved NPCs don't even care about thanking you. They run away or stay in "I'm scared" position forever until you leave.
- Friendly characters during missions make absolutely no sense in some situations. Example - the last act 1 mission, escaping the hotel with Jackie. If you try to be stealthy, you can often see Jackie running right in front of enemies without any reaction from them. While on top he loudly makes snarky comments about you being visible...
- Enemies can be blind at times, especially if you're fighting with melee weapons. They can hide around corners and do absolutely nothing until you come next to them and hit their head with a baseball bat. At other times they can spot you through smallest holes (e.g. opened car door) from like 50 metres.
- They are also often not adjusted to the quests. For example, there's a quest where you need to plant a tracker in Russian fixer's car and it is said that the docks workers need to be extra careful. Yet they work like all regular enemies - they can stand in one place and watch in completely irrelevant direction.
- Incapacitation includes short ache cues for opponents to react to, but they rarely do. You can incapacitate someone right next to 2 other people looking in a different direction and they might stay unaware. Sound cues in general seem to be mostly ignored.
- Some quests definitely feel like they should be on a timer/more tight timer. E.g. the guy with broken penis implant, I drove 2 times in the wrong direction and we were still on time, maybe there's a timer but it's too loose if he's really in pain.


Traffic

Vehicles are far from smart. Your car can get to you from anywhere but the rest can't even handle basic road interactions. Many games had better logic for them.
- Blocking entire crossroad with a vehicle in the middle is the complete opposite of expected realism.
- Getting off the predefined path is solved by the simpliest algorithm possible - moving back and forth until they manage to drive in a straight line on any available path. Here's the funniest result I found, a car trying to end its existence by banging its front against a wall, maybe it has cybepsychosis:
- If you flip a car on its side/back it explodes, I don't think that's how physics work. The people inside of it get out of it right before explosion and die.
- Stealing a car results most often in scared people not only not trying to get it back but also waiting next to it to be ran over by you. Police never reacts to stealing a car, even if they're close, I guess it's a crime not worth reporting/looking at?
- There are no public communication or public service vehicles on the roads. More of an issue with world building than AI, but including it because it ruins the immersion. You only see some drones from time to time, but buses don't exist and police cars/fire trucks/food delivery etc. are apparently unnecessary for the city to function.
- Other cars apparently always obey law, even though there are so many gangs and thefts of vans (side quests).


Crowd

People walking around the town are definitely the most ridiculus part. Nothing is good apart from some rare extraordinary events, like someone jumping off a bridge. Here are the worst aspects:
- You can't truly interact with almost anything in the city. Food stands don't sell you food except chosen one because... who knows since the dialogue doesn't really tell you. And of course other random people almost never have anything interesting to tell you either.
- You can punch someone and they don't really react. Other people are panicking though.
- Hitting people with non-lethal weapons seem to kill them regardless of whether they're women or buff men.
- You can kill someone walking lonely in a totally empty place otherwise and someone will instantly report that crime and police will use teleportaton techniques to get to you. Yet they can't use this type of techniques in fights or to catch crimes they know about...
- People that have different type of routines, e.g. repairing something, often keep doing it forever.
- Routines are very unrealistic anyways, I don't think I've ever seen anyone entering a car or building other than a club or shop you can access.
- Gangsters on streets never seem to react to anything that isn't you. I only managed to have them interact by like forcing some random car to drive into one of them while trying to get back on path (see vehicles above). And they shoot that person instead of me causing the chaos but apparently it wasn't dead after few shots since it still was struggling. But it died to the first baseball bat hit of mine

I really hope at least some of those will get fixed in January's patch. But then they had 8 (!) years to develop a betI so I doubt it will get fixed much in any near feature.

no, most of the things you mention are working as intended. Its pretty unlikely to change much. Either accept it or move on.
 
I'm torn. I have the game and I like it personally. But what they did to a decent portion of current gen players was pretty unforgivable.

The game is playable, but there is a lot of stuff that was taken out, and a lot of stuff (mechanics) that are lacking. CDPR has a long list of items to look at per feedback in the community. And I think that the list of items you just have shown would take a complete revamp of the base development they used. They were in way over their heads, they knew it, and they decided to pull a stunt like EA.

Ideally, I would love for them to fix everything and make it just like they portrayed it was going to be. But, they already have their money. The game already has that sour taste and I wouldn't be surprised if people just forget about this game in a short while.

On top of everything. I am starting to think that businesses are secretly adopting the business value of (get the money, forget the product, move on).

Let me explain why this is a good strategy. They marketed the heck out of this game, like EA with Anthem. CDPR promised all this stuff and got people's rocks off. They started showing gameplay, mechanics, vehicle customization, character customization. They created the implication of something that was never going to be fully realized. Then they pull the plug on all the really cool or staple mechanics. Maybe for time constraints, maybe it was never possible and they needed the sales. All these upset people are pissed and out of $60. It's not enough money to get upset over for months or years as an individual. And these same people could never get united over this issue and actually take a stance to make a significant impact on CDPR to change this kind of garbage behavior. People are upset for a time, then move on, allowing a company to just take millions of dollars of profit without even a slap on the wrist. A drop in stock is always going to happen and isn't really a slap on the wrist.

And it's crazy to think that this product generated $480,000,000 from 8 million copies. Would you think you deserve a million dollars for an unfinished vacuum cleaner product design?

Sorry for the rant.

Much love,

-The peskiest


It's a very effective strategy for artistic products, but your analogy falls flat. People evaluate a vacuum on a binary scheme of "it works as I think it should, or it does not".

Videogames are much more akin to art; for example, take a painting. Some mentally challenged individual will always be willing to pay $1,000,000 for a piece of canvas or the banana taped to a wall. That's the difference.

That's the distinction most people are not aware of. A lot of business can be made catering to easily satisfied low standards. Doesn't matter if you sell Dr. Phil's show as an academic talk on the level of Oxford, because enough people will not even care that it is deceitful advertising, you underestimate how easy to please some people are.
 
Yes, AI is absolutely bad. it is, almost always, delirium.
enemies who see through walls. correct, the cars falling from the sky. how many of us stupidly run after our motorbike...
yesterday my motorbike appeared coming out of the ground. maybe Jacky coming back, I said to myself. Seriously, AI needs to be rethinking.
pedestrian NPCs are the most annoying. simple clones who spend their time passing and passing again and again... especially overweight people. cops watching nothing at all, attacking you if you get too close.
however, I still enjoy this game, because I keep my hopes up. the basis of the script is good. the game is just; absolutely wobbly.
 
It's a very effective strategy for artistic products, but your analogy falls flat. People evaluate a vacuum on a binary scheme of "it works as I think it should, or it does not".

Videogames are much more akin to art; for example, take a painting. Some mentally challenged individual will always be willing to pay $1,000,000 for a piece of canvas or the banana taped to a wall. That's the difference.

That's the distinction most people are not aware of. A lot of business can be made catering to easily satisfied low standards. Doesn't matter if you sell Dr. Phil's show as an academic talk on the level of Oxford, because enough people will not even care that it is deceitful advertising, you underestimate how easy to please some people are.
This is true however cyberpunk as a product does not function for some. There is no art to be seen because it moves at 15fps and outright crashes leaving nothing to be seen but a solid blue screen. That's equivalent to that banana painting literally melting on sight.
 
This is true however cyberpunk as a product does not function for some. There is no art to be seen because it moves at 15fps and outright crashes leaving nothing to be seen but a solid blue screen. That's equivalent to that banana painting literally melting on sight.


On the other hand, you also have people who cannot tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps, and for whom Elder Scroll character models look just fine, so there's that.

You'd be surprised what so many people are satisfied with, and I'm not disagreeing with you that it can drive one wild to see such low expectations in people for a $60 product when I remember how Tales of Symphonia or Majora's Mask/Oracle of Seasons/Oracle of Ages felt like with the ton of interesting side content you could explore in addition to post-game.
 
There is a lot wrong with this game, and AI is a major one indeed. I could maybe forgive it if everything else was amazing, but the only thing that isn't bare minimum is the level design and the 3D assets. Characters are shallow, everything is scripted heavily, skills don't work, only 2 branching story paths that effect the main story, and so on. This game is fools gold, pretty to look at, and that is it in my opinion. I'm hoping they can fix this game, but I'm starting to lose faith. This might sound bad, but I think the best ending is when V blows his brains out, because then a least you get to kill Johnny Silverhand.
 
games have limits


no, most of the things you mention are working as intended. Its pretty unlikely to change much. Either accept it or move on.

Are you serious? Working as intended? The game has even much worse AI than W3, which didn't have good AI, and CDPR advertised this as "the most immersive experience ever"... Intended my ass, you need to have the lowest expectations possible to say that.

Hopefully the next big patch will improve AI at least a bit.
 

DC9V

Forum veteran
I mean, Witcher 3 was very buggy at the start too... Maybe they require the motivation of disappointed fans to work harder or something.
lol ... TW3 has simple mechanics compared to CP. Horse riding still feels like Lara Croft walking in some old school Tomb Raider game.
And no they definitely don't need disappointed fans for motivation. What a theory...
 
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