Alchemy back in the Witcher 1

[bcheero]

Alchemy back in the Witcher 1

Does anyone else miss making potions and oils back in the Witcher 1? It felt like real alchemy, especially when experimenting with various herbs and trying to have key secondary effects for battle. It feels very boring in the Witcher 2 and the fact that the potion counter still goes in the cutscenes makes alchemy useless, somewhat, in the first playthrough.

 

[volsung]

While the alchemy system in TW1 was without a doubt more elaborate, I never felt attracted to bombs or oils. In TW2 the alchemy path is actually very fun and slightly overpowered, as it yields amazing bombs and potion effects.

So my point is: alchemy systems are different, yes. It feels more complementary to the overall gameplay in TW2 than a minigame in itself like in TW1. Is it bad? NO.

 

[Garrison72]

Well I certainly agree about the cut scene problem regarding alchemy. The fact they haven't patched it makes me think it's intended and not a bug. Either way it makes no sense to me.

Secondary ingredients would be nice, but overall I think alchemy in TW2 plays a more crucial role than TW1. And as volsung said, I rely on bombs and oils much more this time around.

 

[bcheero]

I completely agree with that. Bombs weren't handled well and I rarely felt inclined to use them. I used a fair amount of all the oils in the Witcher 1 and those were inplemented well enough. Hmm I see your logic behind alchemy in TW2. I'm not vehemently against it, but yes it does enhance the gameplay a lot more on the harder difficulties. Perhaps I just miss the times when I first played the Witcher

 

[Garrison72]

In interviews they said they had a more elaborate system in the works, but that it got cut back due to a lack of time and resources. So who knows, maybe they'll patch in what they originally intended.

 

[Mohasz]

Perhaps in Enhanced Edition, since they haven't announced all the new features yet (as far as I know).

 

[Seboist]

Well I certainly agree about the cut scene problem regarding alchemy. The fact they haven't patched it makes me think it's intended and not a bug. Either way it makes no sense to me.

Secondary ingredients would be nice, but overall I think alchemy in TW2 plays a more crucial role than TW1. And as volsung said, I rely on bombs and oils much more this time around.

True, I only used alchemy a handful of times in W1.

 

[Veleda.980]

I prefer the alchemy system in TW1. I think it's because in TW2 it's confusing and so I'm not really paying attention to the details. It's more like just something you have to do.

 

[GuyNwah]

I mostly prefer the implementation of mixing potions, oils, and bombs in TW1. The ability to experiment (justified in game by Kalkstein) and the need for alcohol, grease, or powder made it a more interesting challenge. The only part I very much do not miss is the inability to make more than one potion at a time.

On the other hand, I mostly prefer their use in TW2. The need to prepare for combat is an improvement over the former ability to use saving potions in combat. The side effects of potions are an improvement in the need to be careful in their use. The ability to improve the duration and effectiveness of potions through talents is an improvement in character development. I don't use oils a lot, but the ability to throw bombs is a huge improvement.

The only criticism I have of potion use is the placement of boss battles such that you cannot use them properly. But there are only two of those.

 

[dementedsheep]

I mostly prefer the implementation of mixing potions, oils, and bombs in TW1. The ability to experiment (justified in game by Kalkstein) and the need for alcohol, grease, or powder made it a more interesting challenge. The only part I very much do not miss is the inability to make more than one potion at a time.

On the other hand, I mostly prefer their use in TW2. The need to prepare for combat is an improvement over the former ability to use saving potions in combat. The side effects of potions are an improvement in the need to be careful in their use. The ability to improve the duration and effectiveness of potions through talents is an improvement in character development. I don't use oils a lot, but the ability to throw bombs is a huge improvement.

The only criticism I have of potion use is the placement of boss battles such that you cannot use them properly. But there are only two of those.

This exactly ^

 

[Garrison72]

I don't use oils a lot, but the ability to throw bombs is a huge improvement.

I use oils every chance I get. No meditating, just apply and kill. And every enemy has their weakness to them.

@ Veleda. It's kinda confusing due to the way they have the alchemy menu designed. I honestly don't think it was done that great in TW1 either.

 

[schmooples]

I mostly prefer the implementation of mixing potions, oils, and bombs in TW1. The ability to experiment (justified in game by Kalkstein) and the need for alcohol, grease, or powder made it a more interesting challenge. The only part I very much do not miss is the inability to make more than one potion at a time.

Did I misunderstand? You can make several potions per meditation in TW1. The unbelivable part is that you can brew unlimited number in one hour (+ plus the potions appear in inventory before meditating).

 

[GuyNwah]

Did I misunderstand? You can make several potions per meditation in TW1. The unbelivable part is that you can brew unlimited number in one hour (+ plus the potions appear in inventory before meditating).

But you can only make them one at a time. If you are picking ingredients, you must pick them each time.

In TW2, you can brew any size batch of a potion, bomb, or oil with the same ingredients; you do not need to pick them for each one.

The difference in the repetitious effort to brew, say, a six-pack of Swallow potions, is considerable.

 

[schmooples]

But you can only make them one at a time. If you are picking ingredients, you must pick them each time.

In TW2, you can brew any size batch of a potion, bomb, or oil with the same ingredients; you do not need to pick them for each one.

The difference in the repetitious effort to brew, say, a six-pack of Swallow potions, is considerable.

Aah, ok. Didn't ever have that problem in TW1. I had trunk and inventory full of ingredients.

Ctrl + click -> a lot

 

[volsung]

Aah, ok. Didn't ever have that problem in TW1. I had trunk and inventory full of ingredients.

Ctrl + click -> a lot

Still you can only brew one at a time in TW1. In TW2 I believe after a patch they introduced the ability to brew more than one potion of the same kind at once. A six-pack of swallows needs six separate brews in TW1, while only one in TW2 if you have sufficient ingredients. I like that a lot too.

I also enjoyed the alchemy itself in TW1 more, but it feels better integrated with the game in TW2.

 

[schmooples]

Don't know about TW2, yet

 

[Soltblod]

I find the Alchemy MOST confusing in TW2.

I do not know how many ingredients I have, what kind of ingredients I have, what other ingredients I could choose from, I do not even understand why and what substances the game shows me when I brew a potion. (When brewing a potion, the game highlights some substances not part of the potion - whyever.) So...

I like the idea that potions have advantages and drawbacks, but I strongly prefer the system of TW1. I do not care about any preparation, by being restricted to drink potions before knowing WHETHER or WHAT I am going to fight. I have to blindly drink potions at some point - where's the preparation in that?
The preparation in alchemy should be to measure up the drawbacks against the advantages of a potion.

 

[Garrison72]

I find the Alchemy MOST confusing in TW2.

I do not know how many ingredients I have, what kind of ingredients I have, what other ingredients I could choose from, I do not even understand why and what substances the game shows me when I brew a potion. (When brewing a potion, the game highlights some substances not part of the potion - whyever.) So...

Again, this is all due to a very poorly designed UI. The actual implementation of alchemy in TW2 is good imo.

 

[Soltblod]

Again, this is all due to a very poorly designed UI. The actual implementation of alchemy in TW2 is good imo.

If not the actual process of brewing, what do you mean by implementation? That you must go to meditation to apply up to three potions? (And really...making potions seems to me much more important than taking potions. Because there you must make decisions and consider options. After that, you just execute your former decisions.)

 

[Charza]

I like the preparation mechanic of the alchemy system in The Witcher 1 better than in The Witcher 2.

In the Witcher 1 you had all these different ingredients, which in turn had primary substances, but also secondary substances.
It was really rewarding to know what kind of characteristics each ingredient had, and if you mixed them the right way, you could make some kick ass potions.
(If for example you made a blizzard potion with nigredo components, you would get additional bonusses on reflexes and critical hits. But you could also mix up ingredients with rubedo, to buff your health regeneration.)

But now the implementation of the potion drinking itself.
The Witcher 2 got this part right.
Preparation is the key, and you should really plan ahead for certain situations.

So for me it's kind of a mixed bag.
I miss the elaborate mixing, and experimentation with ingredients from the first game, I think in this department the Witcher 1 truly shines !
But in the first game the potions were like instant bonusses that worked immediately, you could simply zip them in the middle of a fight, and thats not how it works in the books.
So the meditation mechanic is definitely closer to the books.

So yeah, bottomline, CDPR if you ever read this, for Witcher 3 it would be awesome to keep the meditation from The Witcher 2, but bring back the elaborate mixing mechanic from The Witcher 1