Alchemy System is a mess...

[ForangFarosh]

what has happened with the alchemy system in The Witcher 3? why have I my inventory filled with ingredients which I don't need? why so many plants in the world if I just need to make the potions once? why can't I choose what potion I want to redo and which not? you screw up the fun with the alchemy system, it was good in The Witcher, perfect in The Witcher 2, making potions have a great importance in the inmersion in this world? it lose part of the essence of becoming a witcher

How true :/

I still can't understand their choices.

1 / Alchemy system should have been the same as Witcher 1 and 2 ! you need a potion ? go grab the ingredients you need to make it and Witcher 3 open world was the perfect place for that gameplay.

2 / Fighting system. As I said in a few post, combat system needs only one thing : NERF the DOGDE and ROLL. It should drain more stamina from player character. Players would find more entertainment with it.

3 / Character movement (PC : kb/mouse) ... pfff once more. Walk, hold shift to Jog (a real jog speed that should be at least 3/4 or half the speed of the present jog speed), hold control to sprint. Why ? just because faster is your character worst is the way to control him and it's due to animation sequense state you should wait for to start a new one. It's motion capture and happened in GTA 5 (that's why their jog speed is slow) in Assassin Creed ...

4 / Climbing and Falling. While climbing is almost fine, falling is a mess (for geralt the cat, at least) ... maybe it's time to indroduce a falling skill to master ? anyway it's part of the character movement that needs to be tweaked. Rolling in some stairs with steep slopes.

5 / Difficulty. While sometimes it's hard to win a fight (human NPC in a small room) sometimes it's a joke (wyvern) ... seriously ... and Once more, point 2/ and 3/ are involved.

 

[Faltus]

4 / Climbing and Falling. While climbing is almost fine, falling is a mess (for geralt the cat, at least) ... maybe it's time to indroduce a falling skill to master ? anyway it's part of the character movement that needs to be tweaked. Rolling in some stairs with steep slopes.

Off-topic but here's a pro tip regarding falling:

Try to hit "Jump" (default: Space) two times in quick succession just before you're about to hit the ground. Geralt will do a roll and thus avoid any (major) damage.

 

[warbaby2]

Off-topic but here's a pro tip regarding falling:

Try to hit "Jump" (default: Space) two times in quick succession just before you're about to hit the ground. Geralt will do a roll and thus avoid any (major) damage.

So big G draws his sword automatically, but has to soften his fall manually? Who would have thought...

 

[Faltus]

Now that you mention it, 'tis strange indeed.

 

[ForangFarosh]

Try to hit "Jump" (default: Space) two times in quick succession just before you're about to hit the ground. Geralt will do a roll and thus avoid any (major) damage.

ah, Didn't know about that, thanks ... I will give ti a try but a decent squeletal animation to climb down would have been better.

 

[Daywalker30]

They should have made the Alchemy made it this way.

You leave the auto filling potions and stuff as it is, but add the option to brew potions during meditations. This makes the effect and toxicity level much stronger (even for the upgrades) and you have real preparations for the upcoming fights, but you have to use all the needed ingredients again if you want to brew a new potions.
The auto filling stuffs are just less effective and you can use it on the go, while the potions you brew during mediations are much stronger and effective.

This way you combine both the old and new mechanics, thus making the ones happy who loved the old system and the ones who loves the new system.

 

[Flau84]

4 / Climbing and Falling. While climbing is almost fine, falling is a mess (for geralt the cat, at least) ... maybe it's time to indroduce a falling skill to master ? anyway it's part of the character movement that needs to be tweaked. Rolling in some stairs with steep slopes.

I spent 10 minutes looking for a button on how to climb down a ledge. Couldn't find one. Funniest thing is, there IS an animation for it, i saw NPCs climbing down.
Gonna test that double space thing, thanks for that

 

[tahirahmed]

What you describe is EXACTLY what a lot of us want.

If we fight a monster five levels above us, in death march difficulty, and spam potions and bombs to get rid of it, so good job : It worked ! But now go replenish the stock you just used to avoid physical contact.

They could have done an auto-dodge system as well.

Each time a monster attacks you : hop, auto-dodge !
Let's imagine you fight a monster 5 levels above you, would you be ready to dodge every second to avoid its attacks ? Come on, we should be thankful for auto-dodge !

Do you see the irony ?

I understand people may like the alchemy system as it is.
It's normal.
Farming ingredients is not their priority.

But in my case, playing in death march, I consider potions, oilds and bombs as a valuable advantage in fights, and I should have worked to deserve this advantage.
Here, I just have to... meditate.

This is just a question of difficulty.

Death march should force the player to farm ingredients for alchemy.
Or at least, there should be an option to choose between real alchemy and auto-refill.

Calm down, exaggerating won't make your case stronger.

To me the alchemy is much more balanced now, easy crafting maybe but there is an upper limit on how many potions you can craft for example 3 - 4 Swallow which makes your supply limited during battles and your argument of spamming is just wrong here because that upper limit doesn't allow you to spam anything.

It was way awkward in TW2 where you can actually craft like 25 Swallows, 25 Tawny Owls easily but only drink one before battle. By the time I finished that game I had tons of useless potions in my inventory so what's the difference ? at least it's far more accessible this time for example I find myself constantly using potions and replenishing them which makes alchemy system a success to me.

But in the end it's the matter of preference and devs who have limited resources, time etc cannot just make options for everything so they went with the simpler and more accessible system, if you're looking for more difficult alchemy then maybe a modder can fix this for you but in that case I think monsters should become more difficult too so you'll be forced to go through the difficult path of alchemy rather than improvise which most of the players do when they don't find potions in their inventory.

@warbaby2

I also collect every herb I find but it's not just the matter of simple potions like health or mana, there are several rare potions with specific uses and I can bet that many players didn't even tried using potions like Golden Oriole and Bad Blood because the situations when you actually need them are so rare that people just skip the hassle and try more brute force ways and in many instances they succeed without them. With current system we can at least expect them to be present in inventory when we need them the most because regardless of how impressive the traditional way sounds most of the guys just skip the opportunity to craft them and that kills the purpose of such potions.

So we have two ways to handle this, either make monsters so difficult to defeat without those specific potions that user will be completely forced to craft and use them or make crafting simpler like it is right now so you will find them ready in your inventory should the "optional" need arise.

 

[wichat]

I like alchemy system... what I don't like is lootling for nothing else than getting useless weight..... Plant, mutagens, monster organs... why so many for so few use?

 

[Mgec]

This new system is a hybrid between W1 and W2. I like it. They removed the chore of having to make the potions all the time. It's efficient and it makes sense. I do think however that it would be interesting to have a glossary for plants and other ingredients, kinda like the bestiary. Sometimes I see an ingredient and I wonder if I will ever find it.

 

[K.Constantine]

Calm down, exaggerating won't make your case stronger.

To me the alchemy is much more balanced now, easy crafting maybe but there is an upper limit on how many potions you can craft for example 3 - 4 Swallow which makes your supply limited during battles and your argument of spamming is just wrong here because that upper limit doesn't allow you to spam anything.

It was way awkward in TW2 where you can actually craft like 25 Swallows, 25 Tawny Owls easily but only drink one before battle. By the time I finished that game I had tons of useless potions in my inventory so what's the difference ? at least it's far more accessible this time for example I find myself constantly using potions and replenishing them which makes alchemy system a success to me.

But in the end it's the matter of preference and devs who have limited resources, time etc cannot just make options for everything so they went with the simpler and more accessible system, if you're looking for more difficult alchemy then maybe a modder can fix this for you but in that case I think monsters should become more difficult too so you'll be forced to go through the difficult path of alchemy rather than improvise which most of the players do when they don't find potions in their inventory.

@warbaby2

I also collect every herb I find but it's not just the matter of simple potions like health or mana, there are several rare potions with specific uses and I can bet that many players didn't even tried using potions like Golden Oriole and Bad Blood because the situations when you actually need them are so rare that people just skip the hassle and try more brute force ways and in many instances they succeed without them. With current system we can at least expect them to be present in inventory when we need them the most because regardless of how impressive the traditional way sounds most of the guys just skip the opportunity to craft them and that kills the purpose of such potions.

So we have two ways to handle this, either make monsters so difficult to defeat without those specific potions that user will be completely forced to craft and use them or make crafting simpler like it is right now so you will find them ready in your inventory should the "optional" need arise.

What exactly is wrong with mass brewing potions? This is more or less what book Geralt did, he had a chest with a lot of brewed potions.
Moreover, in TW3 you don't actually drink a potion, you just magically trigger it like it's some dank "buff" in an MMO, really ruins the feeling of being a Witcher. At least in the other games you had to actually drink them. TW1 handled it perfectly, where you could drink them before or during combat and if you drink during you get punished, as you should.

Don't give me none of that stupid bull about how "you can't know when combat will begin".

Entering a cave? Drink Swallow and Cat, prep a Blizzard/Thunderbolt just in case. This worked in TW1 brilliantly because you had a long potion duration and could choose to play it safe and drink your regular working horse potions outside of a fight, and drink a Blizzard/Thunderbolt or whatever during IF the fight is harder than Swallow allows you to survive.

In TW2 they ruined this by making it impossible to drink during combat, so you just had to drink all your potions upfront when entering a dangerous area.

In TW3, you're no longer a witcher, you only have 2 potions readily available, that last for a few seconds, that you don't even drink and toxicity is barely a factor, subsiding SEVERAL times during a single longer fight, instead of the potion just lasting long enough like in both previous games.

The previous implementations were superior and no one has yet to bring an argument as to why that's not the case.

TW1 > TW2 > TW3 when it comes to alchemy.

 

[Cs__sz__r]

The only complaint I've had at all is the butchered alchemy system.

I've learned to just live with it. Even the psuedo system of throwing away bottles doesn't make sense because now the potions have to have specific components instead of certain ones containing rubedo, vitriol, etc..

I can't fathom why they did away with that.

*sigh* Is what it is I suppose. At least the game is pretty perfect otherwise.

 

[tahirahmed]

What exactly is wrong with mass brewing potions? This is more or less what book Geralt did, he had a chest with a lot of brewed potions.
Moreover, in TW3 you don't actually drink a potion, you just magically trigger it like it's some dank "buff" in an MMO, really ruins the feeling of being a Witcher. At least in the other games you had to actually drink them. TW1 handled it perfectly, where you could drink them before or during combat and if you drink during you get punished, as you should.

Don't give me none of that stupid bull about how "you can't know when combat will begin".

Entering a cave? Drink Swallow and Cat, prep a Blizzard/Thunderbolt just in case. This worked in TW1 brilliantly because you had a long potion duration and could choose to play it safe and drink your regular working horse potions outside of a fight, and drink a Blizzard/Thunderbolt or whatever during IF the fight is harder than Swallow allows you to survive.

In TW2 they ruined this by making it impossible to drink during combat, so you just had to drink all your potions upfront when entering a dangerous area.

In TW3, you're no longer a witcher, you only have 2 potions readily available, that last for a few seconds, that you don't even drink and toxicity is barely a factor, subsiding SEVERAL times during a single longer fight, instead of the potion just lasting long enough like in both previous games.

The previous implementations were superior and no one has yet to bring an argument as to why that's not the case.

TW1 > TW2 > TW3 when it comes to alchemy.

The thing is you can just let them know that you don't like it and then it's up to them if they want to change it or not, really don't understand the complaining going around with this game....

The monsters should scale, don't like the armor design, combat sucks, alchemy is nerfed, it's way to easy, inventory management is bad... really ? if this game has so many flaws then why the hell play it ? just because they listen to the fans doesn't mean they have to make everyone happy. If you don't like one system or another then just wait for the modders to make it according to your liking. Nobody complaint that much when Skyrim and DAI were released and I can see a dozen more faults with those games then this.

 

[K.Constantine]

The thing is you can just let them know that you don't like it and then it's up to them if they want to change it or not, really don't understand the complaining going around with this game....

The monsters should scale, don't like the armor design, combat sucks, alchemy is nerfed, it's way to easy, inventory management is bad... really ? if this game has so many flaws then why the hell play it ? just because they listen to the fans doesn't mean they have to make everyone happy. If you don't like one system or another then just wait for the modders to make it according to your liking. Nobody complaint that much when Skyrim and DAI were released and I can see a dozen more faults with those games then this.

That's because Skyrim and DAI are irredeemable dogshit. The Witcher has a golden core and up until now didn't compromise it's stylistic integrity. The Witcher has a theme and even though TW2 kind of simplified many areas, it still stuck to that theme and provided a fleshed out, immersive, believable experience of being a Witcher. TW3 doesn't do that, it by all means maintains the high quality standards of writing, and the directing, acting, visuals goes without saying, pacing and mood have improved drastically, the music is some of the best in the series, the combat is at it's most fluid. By all means it's an improvement over the previous games in a lot of areas, but the game was rushed like hell, and you can't deny this is the case, for Christ's sake, they didn't even implement mouse and keyboard controls till within two weeks of release!

I want the game to improve, I don't want apologetic post-purchase rationalization by people who are only coming to the franchise because of the hype that the third installment got. I'm pretty sure CDPR didn't want to release the game with an inventory with no sorting functions, they got a lot of flack for doing that in TW2 and eventually fixed it, they learned their lesson and it's only a matter of time before they add this functionality to TW3. The game suffers heavily in other areas too, for example the encounter design and map flow are haphazard at best and the alchemy doesn't exist, it's been replaced by a tedious and boring system with no nuance. There isn't even a potion drinking animation, I mean seriously, TW1 had a potion drinking animation almost 10 years ago.

I love the game for the same reasons that I love all The Witcher games, because it's still one of a kind and nothing will ever be able to replace it, unlike Skyrim and DAI, which are just corporate engineered, cynically designed products, CDPR, at least before, wanted to deliver us what THEY wanted to play and experience.

That's why both previous games had such an impeccable sense of style, even if the second game sacrificed the visceral detail of the first, it still didn't remove the important aspects. And I have faith that maybe with time, they are pledging to support the game for another year and a half after all, they will be able to bring it up to the level of it's predecessors when it comes to Witcher style and, maybe more importantly, building a gameplay world that feels both dangerous, but one where Geralt is a force to be reckoned with.

Not like right now where a naked dude with a stick can one-shot you, because "hurr durr he outlevels you".

I'm sorry, but voicing these concerns isn't wrong, if you want a hugbox where people can just reaffirm eachother's opinions: http://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/

I am so critical of the game, because I love it and this franchise as much as I do, I wouldn't be so ardent and concise with my points against the game if I didn't genuinely wish it to improve. It's easy to hate, but to be constructive and at the same time respect the reasons for these faults and simply wish to share these thoughts with others isn't a bad thing. I hope you understand now.

/rant

 

[tahirahmed]

@chrissr

Won't quote your entire post but I agree with most of the stuff you said though what pisses me off is that people are not giving it time, the game only came out two weeks ago and received four patches already, what else people really want ? if history is any indication then CDPR support their games throughout their life and bring all the features fans want from their games.

I personally have no objection with either the new alchemy or old school alchemy system (provided it has practical use in combat and not just for the sake of brewing depth) but we have to understand why CDPR did this, it's not because they butchered the system it's because this is their first open world game and they experimented with couple of things, they already received a lot of back lash on equipment repairing so maybe they wanted alchemy to be more useful rather than a chore and I am fine with that but if people want old school alchemy then either give them the time or wait for modders to do it. Bashing them indefinitely won't achieve anything just like it didn't achieved anything with the graphics downgrade topic.

I don't think the game was rushed really with two delays though a lot of their precious time was wasted in optimization on consoles, it's a sad fact but true. A lot of console gamers are reporting bad fps, performance hiccups etc which points to the fact that they faced a lot of trouble making the game run on consoles. On the other hand PC has minor issues (more related to gameplay rather than performance) and if you have a higher end PC the issues are almost non-existent. This time could be well spent on implementing some new features but unfortunately it didn't happened however even in it's current state the game quite polished and I am enjoying it thoroughly and can't wait to see how it will improve over time.

The point where I thoroughly disagree with you is that the game doesn't make you feel like a Witcher anymore, to be honest this is the best Witcher experience I am getting compared to other two games, why ? because the first game had great quests though it was limited technically so I thought TW2 will shine with it's ambitious design and same questing like TW1 but it disappointed me with lackluster quests, TW3 takes the best approach with open world, lots of customization for Geralt like armor, weapons, alchemy, two forms of signs, bombs and even a crossbow with more monster hunting oriented quests that involve investigation and discovering what happened and then eventually hunting the monster itself, it never felt this good to be Geralt honestly and each quest leaves me craving for more.

As for a high level naked dude killing you with a stick... well, this is something that will come with open world design and you have to accept it. You cannot just expect them to make you an ultimate bad ass right from the start, you have become a bad ass yourself.

Anyway I think even in it's vanilla state this game gives us way more enjoyment than Skyrim and DAI can ever hope for and with time and things like RedKit it will only improve not to mention direct support from dev as well. Right now I also want things like more investigation quests involving dangerous monsters, a real time meditation system where you see the time pass by and the list goes on but I don't bother mentioning them atm because they will come sooner or later either officially or unofficially.

Sorry for making it off topic.

 

[RedFaction2]

The monsters should scale, don't like the armor design, combat sucks, alchemy is nerfed, it's way to easy, inventory management is bad... really ? if this game has so many flaws then why the hell play it ?

Don't get us wrong.
This game is truly awesome.

What pisses me off is that in such an awesome game everything is almost perfect except a few things for which it seems to have been designed in five minutes by a trainee.

Refill bombs with alcohol, does that look right to you ?

I read your previous posts and I can understand that it's ok for you for gameplay purpose.
But for me this alchemy system is an unbearable flaw in a shining masterpiece.

And if it wasn't a masterpiece, I wouldn't even care to post here.

I think CD Projekt listens to players, that's the reason of my presence here.

Otherwise, as you said, we will wait for mods : )

 

[tahirahmed]

Don't get us wrong.
This game is truly awesome.

What pisses me off is that in such an awesome game everything is almost perfect except a few things for which it seems to have been designed in five minutes by a trainee.

Refill bombs with alcohol, does that look right to you ?

I read your previous posts and I can understand that it's ok for you for gameplay purpose.
But for me this alchemy system is an unbearable flaw in a shining masterpiece.

And if it wasn't a masterpiece, I wouldn't even care to post here.

I think CD Projekt listens to players, that's the reason of my presence here.

Otherwise, as you said, we will wait for mods : )

Thanks for understanding

I will be happy if they implement old school alchemy system even if that mean I have to go to the corners of the map to fetch some rare herbs as long as the potion I am brewing will be required in some fight and not just for decorating my inventory, I personally want features in game that have weight rather than features for increasing the list of features for example in DAI alchemy is there but it's practically useless except maybe the health potion which is only required during very difficult fights.

Right now I am happy for the positive fact that alchemy still has some weight in TW3 even if the brewing is made easier, though I agree that a single cheap item like alcohol (which is available everywhere) should not be used to make everything.

I think this can be done easily by either a mod or devs themselves, just disable the "you have already crafted this item" flag so every time it will consume full ingredients and auto brewing will not work anymore. Though I still think that there should be an upper limit to how many potions you can use during a single fight, 3 sound good to me, this will prevent spamming even if you have stock pile in your inventory or make tweaks to toxicity so you just cannot spam without penalties.

 

[Edralion]

Wait a mod <3

---------- Updated at 12:37 PM ----------

I found this
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/54/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fwitcher3%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D54%26page%3D2%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D2895274&pUp=1

 

[MRaholan]

I am torn about the alchemy system in TW3. I think it's so close to TW1 version and pretty indepth, but autobrew is kind of breaking. I play on hard and it's weird knowing I can mediate for 15min and have all my created items back.I don't have a PC strong enough to play this as I am sure a mod will correct this one day, but I really think autobrew or whatever was a mistake.

 

[StormKorp]

I like the alchemy system in TW3. I craft the potion only once and them i'm done. Harvesting all the plants needed for each single brewing would be a chore.