I am curious for your opinion on this, I mean I agree you are right that paying for the same games every year with just the same old ideas shuffled around is not an attractive when you say it out loud.
But especially for open world games played in part to visit virtual environments, are there not at least some crafting mechanics (or any) you would prefer to be familiar every time across most open world games?
Oh, and Thank for you kind words on my mod but really Bethesda made TES and Fallout the easiest games in history to mod. My code skills and weak but my GAME IDEAs for open world are a cornucopia!
yeah sure... lets put it this way I work in advertising and every time a creative comes around the corner with an idea - the most spoken sentence is "already done..." what forces them to take that approach and just make it better in any way by adding or adjusting parts the former didn't came up with. some base ideas are just equal but u always can put your personal spin on it - at least that should be the goal to make it interessting and outstanding.
Woah, I have just figured this out myself, but I'm 100 hours in and I've dismantled a lot of iconic weapons that I've found out that I can never have back on this playthrough
I see that there's an "are you sure" dialog now (in 1.2+, dunno when first introduced), but this dialog does not indicate that it's impossible to re-craft the iconic item. There's even wording in the game which says something like "when you get an iconic you get the crafting specs for it too". I took that to mean that I could always re-craft an iconic if I needed it later, not that these specs require the original item as a component. The build I'm playing, Tech/Crafting is the last skill tree I'm maxxing out (after reflex & body), so my attitude to crafting has been "bust it down for components now, I'll be able to craft the good stuff late-game".
The wording should be really be improved to indicate that the consequences are more severe than they seem.
There's even wording in the game which says something like "when you get an iconic you get the crafting specs for it too". I took that to mean that I could always re-craft an iconic if I needed it later, not that these specs require the original item as a component.
The wording should be really be improved to indicate that the consequences are more severe than they seem.
first sentence is true. second sentence kinda weird, because the tutorial on your first weapon dying night - the one which also said you got the spec - also said by upgrading a weapon you lose the former rarity, thinking ahead would imply that u should be aware that u cant craft that one again if u loose former quality doing so... and loosing it by rarity upgrade is the same as destroying or throwing them away... - do people just completely skip tutorials these days?
but i admit the clearfying that there are 2 kinds of iconics ingame could be better... the lootable unique ones and the spec ones and therfore recraftable ones are handled kinda differently tho - this sadly isnt explained clearly afaik. would be better to get clear informations of both kinds and not just iconics in general... . : /
second sentence kinda weird, because the tutorial on your first weapon dying night - the one which also said you got the spec - also said by upgrading a weapon you lose the former rarity, thinking ahead would imply that u should be aware that u cant craft that one again if u loose former quality doing so... and loosing it by rarity upgrade is the same as destroying or throwing them away... - do people just completely skip tutorials these days?
I suppose it's "giving the tutorial at the wrong time". If it had said clearly "if your dismantle your iconic items you can never get them back" then I would have remembered that part.
At the point I read that tutorial, I didn't have the ability to actually upgrade the weapon. I must have seen that tutorial at around level 5 as I was about 5-10h into the game. I have only recently picked up the perk to upgrade Rare -> Epic at level ~39 (at about 95h into the game). I also knew at the time that I wouldn't be investing skill points into tech until much later in character development.
Since the second part of the tutorial (about upgrading iconic items) didn't seem applicable at the time, I didn't fully understand or remember it.
In any other non-game app I'd call it bad UX. Also, what game-mechanical reason is there for preventing the character from re-crafting a dismantled iconic weapon? How does that enrich the game? Perhaps prevents a craft-and-sell for profit exploit, but those exist anyway, I hear, without iconic crafting. There are no other benefits from having multiple copies of the same iconic item. You can only wield one weapon at a time after all.
It seems it's kind of OK though, most of the iconic items I dismantled aren't going to be used by this character anyway. Maybe only Kongou I wish I'd kept. I'll get Johnny's pistol soon and I'll hold onto that. My current non-iconic revolver one-hits any non-boss enemy in the game anyway.
The first "tutorial" about iconic weapons, it's with "dying nigth" during "The Gun" (first time you quit your apartment). it's difficult to do earlier
(and if you see a special gun, not a good idea to dismantle it)
Actually in some ways I don't want the tutorial earlier, I want it later, when I first get the "Rare Crafting" perk. No point teaching the player how to use an ability they don't have and can't use yet. By the time they get the ability they might have forgotten the tutorial.
What should be in the early tutorial is a really clear statement that iconic items can't be re-created from crafting specs. That's relevant immediately, how to craft better iconic weapons from lower-quality ones is irrelevant until I have that perk.
It's also unintuitive because of the two systems: Crafting and Upgrading. When I saw that tutorial, everything I had available to me (common/uncommon) followed this pattern.
Crafting = creating new stuff
Upgrading = making existing stuff better
So what's more, I thought I had understood the tutorial correctly. In fact I spent a bit of time being confused as why (after upgrading a common item many times) it didn't switch to uncommon. The tutorial mentioned upgrading an item to the next rarity, I thought that's what it meant - by using upgrades. It turns out I hadn't actually understood the tutorial because it was trying to teach me how to use abilities I didn't have yet, and (for this character) wasn't going to have until much later in the game.
For iconic weapons, when I eventually picked up that perk, I found out that crafting actually means something closer to upgrading.
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I suppose what I'm saying is that learning & understanding comes in two parts (well, more than two, but only two are relevant here), and they should reinforce one another. There's reading the information and then there's trying it out for yourself.
At the point I read the information, the tutorial included instructions for things I couldn't try out at the time and so I never completed the learning process. Actually, I thought I was trying it out (trying to use the upgrade system to change an item's rarity) but hadn't succeeded yet. If it's easy to misunderstand then it's a bad tutorial. Obviously it is, because there's lots of people who misunderstood it in this thread, and other threads on this forum, and a number of similar discussions around the Internet.
I just came back to play the game again after the updates. Never tried crafting at release. It sucks that I have to have the item too craft the item. I really wish that once you have had an iconic item you can craft it whenever you want too. I dislike the thought of having to stash everything just to be able to craft it later.
I just came back to play the game again after the updates. Never tried crafting at release. It sucks that I have to have the item too craft the item. I really wish that once you have had an iconic item you can craft it whenever you want too. I dislike the thought of having to stash everything just to be able to craft it later.
