AttemptedWheat;n8341260 said:
Ambush cards can either hit you, prevent you from playing a special or just sit there for some time and reveal themselves, thus giving some points to your opponent. If you don't know which one of them has just been played, throw a unit that can take the small damage and watch - don't throw a 2 or 3 card now, it's gonna be a waste.
If your card hasn't taken any damage and the ambush is still there, this is serious now and you must act wisely: wait for a good moment to throw your most useless special card and see if that brings anything up. Carefully choose the moment, though - you don't want your big, badass, buffed brown or silver burned by Shirru. Make sure your current best unit on the board is gold and simply shoot.
If that doesn't do anything, you better do the math and count your opponent's points. Also, get familiar with ST's cards, like the Dragoons, Commandos, Toruviel or Ciaran and the exact amount of points they can gain.
That's pretty much it and, believe me, it works. All in all, you really have to take the time and learn the faction's cards and points... by heart. Like, really.
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AttemptedWheat Voodoocaster13 TheAnhsor Checco515 gangrel6 HenryGrosmont Thread merged into "Ambush pretty OP right now".
Lim3zer0 Where's the love?
Lim3zer0 Where's the love?
Trantyn;n8381980 said:
This suggestion comes up quite often, but I doubt that it would do the trick. First off, you would create a very niche card that -like Morenn- is only partly helpful IF your opponent is ST and otherwise useless. That means that everything above a bronze card would never be included in any deck unless fused to a 8+body, since silver and gold slots are already very very tight. The other problem is that even if Morenn would be neutral, the passive ST abilitity still hinders you to use it on their buffed up ambush cards, since you will hardly obtain CA (its not impossible, but certainly difficult). The solution can only be to limit the ambush mechanic to a very defined and small subset of cards and to forbid the Dragoon buffing.
My biggest problem with Ambush is when your opponent plays a bunch of ambush cards and your can't do anything to those cards, especially on the last round.
I'm not sure if any or all of these have been mentioned but here is a list of changes that could work.
1) If a ambush card is buffed in your hand it can't be played face down.
2) you can target ambush card while they are face down on the board. You'll be bluntly throwing cards but you could d-bomb, lactate or whatever.
3) goes along with #2. If a Ambush card is damaged while face down it automatically gets revealed. Keep in mind that you'll still be blindly throwing cards at the ambush card. That could also open up more card design for ambush cards.
4) make dual function neutral cards that can deal with Ambush cards. Something like clear skies but for ambush.
Preemptive Strike (bronze)
Reveal all face down ambush cards or play the top bronze unit in your deck.
Elven Scout (loyal/disloyal) (Silver)
5 strength
shackle a face down ambush card that is on the side the the Elven Scout is played on. A shackled ambush card remain face down until shackled are removed.
Just some thoughts off the top of my head
I'm not sure if any or all of these have been mentioned but here is a list of changes that could work.
1) If a ambush card is buffed in your hand it can't be played face down.
2) you can target ambush card while they are face down on the board. You'll be bluntly throwing cards but you could d-bomb, lactate or whatever.
3) goes along with #2. If a Ambush card is damaged while face down it automatically gets revealed. Keep in mind that you'll still be blindly throwing cards at the ambush card. That could also open up more card design for ambush cards.
4) make dual function neutral cards that can deal with Ambush cards. Something like clear skies but for ambush.
Preemptive Strike (bronze)
Reveal all face down ambush cards or play the top bronze unit in your deck.
Elven Scout (loyal/disloyal) (Silver)
5 strength
shackle a face down ambush card that is on the side the the Elven Scout is played on. A shackled ambush card remain face down until shackled are removed.
Just some thoughts off the top of my head
Thing with ambush is it does need a counter and think I've got an idea here that plays into the "mind games" and risk vs reward.
silver spy cards should have a secondary choice of "reveal an ambush card" gold can reveal two.
this way, spy cards outside of Nilfgaard become more than a second or first round card advantage gainer and operate, well...as spies, since spy cards in the final round tend to be dead cards for most factions.
so when you're playing against an ambush deck, you can now hold onto your spy/spies and the mind games really come in.
Is the ambush card just a fire trap? Are they holding a spy to reveal? Will the power swing for using a spy be too much to climb above?
I honestly think it would be the logical way to do it, while not needing to nerf the ambush decks power but offering every faction a way to counter the current uncountable turn.
silver spy cards should have a secondary choice of "reveal an ambush card" gold can reveal two.
this way, spy cards outside of Nilfgaard become more than a second or first round card advantage gainer and operate, well...as spies, since spy cards in the final round tend to be dead cards for most factions.
so when you're playing against an ambush deck, you can now hold onto your spy/spies and the mind games really come in.
Is the ambush card just a fire trap? Are they holding a spy to reveal? Will the power swing for using a spy be too much to climb above?
I honestly think it would be the logical way to do it, while not needing to nerf the ambush decks power but offering every faction a way to counter the current uncountable turn.
MadMaximoff I like the idea of spy cards revealing ambush cards but I kinda think NG would only really benefit from this (at the moment). I'm trying to think of cards, outside of the NG faction, that aren't high strength cards (I just woke up tho, so maybe the brain isn't working correctly yet) When you're in the final round the last thing you want to do is drop high strength cards on your opponents side.
I play several ambush cards in my main deck. I'd be okay with other factions getting a silver card that can reveal any ambush card adjacent to it. The effect still goes off (whatever it is). Thus it gives some points to the opponent if played on their side, but reveals up to two ambush cards.
Flow008 that's not true, I want to be able to... uum do something to the 24 power face down card before the game ends. I'm not saying all of those idea should be pit in the game, heck, I'm not saying any of them should be put in. All I'm saying is when round 3 rolls around I shouldn't have to sit and watch 2/3 face down cards reveal themselves after I've already used all my cards. ST Larry gets the card advantage the majority of the time, add that to their opponent not being able to do anything to their cards (you're not even allowed to look at them! Hehe)
I've made an ambush deck and I just feel dirty when I play it, it's cheap and not fair.
I've made an ambush deck and I just feel dirty when I play it, it's cheap and not fair.
Voodoocaster13;n8398660 said:
Rawls;n8401320 said:
i might repeat myself, but how does ambush-reveal solve the issue, when you never get an opening against their buffed up Toruviel/Sapper in hand due to natural ST CA? the problem created by immense (20+) hand-buffing and natural CA can't be countered by any possible card, since there is nothing keeping your opponent from waiting until right after you played your last card. Toruviel, Sapper and also Ele'yas in combination with ST's passive ability leave you no counter-play which imho makes it toxic for the game.
That means that Dragoon urgently needs a rework. Ele'yas could need some sort of value cap and the Milva Combo for even greater CA should be reworked (just let Roach appear after the trigger). Don't get me wrong - I play ST myself and it is fun (mostly for me). However, I recognize a solitaire when I see one.
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@Voodoocaster13 I think it would be better if Vrihedd Dragoon add +4 to normals units and half to ambushes.
because ST players need to play Toruviel before opponents pass, if it's revealed and then scorched/wounded/hit with weather, it becomes by definition vulnerable. There will be times where the cards fall right and they can hold on to it till the end. However, it's a risky play for ST to hold onto Toruviel till the end, they're gambling you won't just pass right before they have the chance to play Toruviel. Which if that's their big finish play ... means they're screwed. I don't play Toruviel this way for that very reason. Sometimes people pass betting it's her.Ninschi;n8401650 said:
If you want other things too I don't begrudge you that ... I was just saying one suggestion that I thought sounded interesting and strategic. Maybe increase dragoon value to 7 and reduce buff to 2 in addition. I'm fine with tinkering with the values if others think it's unfair. I don't want them to totally change they system too much because I like ambush cards. Based on the difficulty I have with some other decks don't feel like it's too OP personally. Like all other decks it excels against some opponent builds and is weak to others. But I don't claim to be the most skilled player and I am probably somewhat biased. They already took away a lot of ST's mobile units. Mobile units and ambush were the reasons I liked ST so much in the first place. The price you pay is lower value cards generally. You're having to gamble that some of your strategies will pay off. It's different. I like that.
Ambush cards are the only cards in the game that can't be targeted. You can't do anything about them. The broken part is the final round, when the ST player has card advantage (which he normal does) and starts dropping all his ambush cards and you can't do anything about it. NOTHING. You might have debuff cards,, D-Bomb, something... but you are unable to even blindly throw cards at face down cards.
I feel you should be able to interact with them somehow. Throw a scorch and cross your fingers, D-Bomb a face down card (maybe it works maybe it doesnt), lacerate a row of ambush cards (maybe they aren't gold but if they are the card was wasted). That would add to the "mind games" as a previous poster mentioned but would at least allow you to try and do something
I feel you should be able to interact with them somehow. Throw a scorch and cross your fingers, D-Bomb a face down card (maybe it works maybe it doesnt), lacerate a row of ambush cards (maybe they aren't gold but if they are the card was wasted). That would add to the "mind games" as a previous poster mentioned but would at least allow you to try and do something
Rawls;n8401960 said:
Well, that sounds reasonable, but doesn't really work out in play, since the buffed up component can as well be a Sapper / Ele'yas. Are you really willing to pass earlier and not use your last hand-card for the ~50% possibility that it's Toruviel? Are you even ahead to make that kind of play? From my experience with and against ST, that's very unlikely (and wise, since I would rather buff up Sapper instead of Toruviel, if I have both in hand).
I agree that reducing the buff to 2 (or even 1, but then - whats the point of it?) might help out a bit, but I fear that the meta then simply switches to Ele'yas neophyte spam, which works out similary.
Rawls;n8401960 said:
Don't get me wrong - I really like those mechanics too, but mobility shouldn't be used on ambush cards themself as it makes the read for your opponent sooo much harder. Ambush itself is not the culprit, but stacking is as well as the fact that your opponent gets little to no information about the possible ambush identity. The game is growing and additional ambush cards are somewhat guaranteed to be implemented. However, every new ambush card makes it even worse for your opponent. That's why, I would love to see a more defined subset of ambush cards that can be identified by an experienced opponent --> remove agility from all ambush cards, but Toruviel and maybe display the ambush cards color (Bronze, Silver, Gold) when played face down.