An MMO Thread

[designer5]

Lol and some are just desperate for the approval of the mob...

Mob wins. If a game doesn't support mobs, it lacks in features. Though that doesn't mean that a single person should not be able to do anything in a MMO game.

For example for Eve they have listed the player types like a solo player, an enabler, a leader, and such. An enabler is a person who likes to provide frames for stuff to do, eg. arrange fleet operations or projects. A leader is a person who leads people, builds organization etc. But they don't forget the solo player. They create also such content, that a solo player can play the game.

In fact I am a solo player mostly in the sense that I don't bind myself to relationships with certain individuals. But that doesn't stop me joining groups / fleets and such.

I prefer the best groups there is. Sometimes the best groups are automatic pick up groups, because they occur at times suitable for me, are pretty fine actually in the end overall, and certainly better than trying to holler in a market place for more peoples.

And on one hand sometimes certain established and maybe well known groups are better. If there is a group that has a lot of followers as a member pool and has solid code of operations, then they excel in what they are doing. Often there even isn't any automatic pick up groups available, but people have organized themselves well. Then I just join them.

Best groups get only better players to their ranks. But hey, there are beginner groups, too. So you first go to beginner groups, learn, and then get to the better groups. This is clear progress, and a challenge, and the more interesting as you get to know different kinds of people. Groups have leaders and people with different kinds of great personalities, and it is an honor to meet these people and be in their fleets.

And then single player games: Well, there is you, the stories, a difficulty setting, and some mods. But you miss out on the group activity.

 

[Sydanyo]

And then single player games: Well, there is you, the stories, a difficulty setting, and some mods. But you miss out on the group activity.

You would be surprised how many people in the world come from a culture and a background where being in any kind of a group just isn't something they want to do, and thus having to take part in such an activity in any way, even if it means playing in an MMO among other people, whether you actually interact them or not, is just not something they like. So, "missing out" on group activity isn't really "missing out" on anything. It's preference, just like chocolate or strawberry, nothing more. You like group activity, other people don't.

GTA5 made over a billion in a weekend, and is still selling. $1B divided by $60 is what, 16.7 million. That's 16.7 million copies sold in a weekend, and that was what, a week ago? Even if I'm off by a lot, it's still a huge number of games sold. GTA5 is a single player game. How many players does EVE have? How many unique players do all western (because GTA5 sales figures were western) MMOs have combined?

Yeah... It's not that surprising people want to play their game all alone in peace from all the morons online.

 

[designer5]

You would be surprised how many people in the world come from a culture and a background where being in any kind of a group just isn't something they want to do, and thus having to take part in such an activity in any way, even if it means playing in an MMO among other people, whether you actually interact them or not, is just not something they like. So, "missing out" on group activity isn't really "missing out" on anything. It's preference, just like chocolate or strawberry, nothing more. You like group activity, other people don't.

Have fun!

GTA5 made over a billion in a weekend, and is still selling. $1B divided by $60 is what, 16.7 million. That's 16.7 million copies sold in a weekend, and that was what, a week ago? Even if I'm off by a lot, it's still a huge number of games sold. GTA5 is a single player game. How many players does EVE have? How many unique players do all western (because GTA5 sales figures were western) MMOs have combined?

Are you trying to compete with GTA5? We shall see figures.

Yeah... It's not that surprising people want to play their game all alone in peace from all the morons online.

Or they find it easier to apply moronic ideas onto npcs. MMOs are safe places for people who behave.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

SW:TOR. Case closed.

The big problem with that game is that the gameplay was really boring. It was like WoW.

due to the MMO format they had to simplify the RPG storyline and had to lengten the combat in between the narrative sessions by a lot.

The story was actually not bad, if it was in a normal single player RPG, it would have been a decent if not good game game.

 

[designer5]

The big problem with that game is that the gameplay was really boring. It was like WoW.

due to the MMO format they had to simplify the RPG storyline and had to lengten the combat in between the narrative sessions by a lot.

The story was actually not bad, if it was in a normal single player RPG, it would have been a decent if not good game game.

I got bored with the narratives. It was everytime bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ...

 

[Sardukhar]

I got bored with the narratives. It was everytime bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ...

Aaand there we go.

 

[Sydanyo]

I got bored with the narratives. It was everytime bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ...

Based on everything, and especially this last comment, I'm starting to think your view on games, and whether they're good as single player or as multiplayer is largely due to you - as you said yourself - getting bored with narratives, which are the very soul of single player games, and not so much with any actual scientific proof on whether single players or multiplayers are better. That's OK, though, and nothing to feel ashamed about. There are indeed people who like the fast paced action of a completely shallow game where there's only a framework and game engine, absolutely no plot to follow, and the only content is created by other like-minded and somewhat - and I mean this with absolutely no disrespect - attention-deficient players.

However, the fact that those players exist, and are and have been catered to, ever since the first multiplayer shooter really, does in no way detract from the fun people who actually love stories, lore and seeing events unfold, and being an integral and pivotal part of them, have while playing single player games.

Also, a lot, if not most of the people in the latter group actually would rather steer clear of the people in the former one, which is at the very heart of why people want to experience their games with deep storytelling without those bunnyhopping idiots spamming "lol lol lol omfg lol" everywhere. Then add to that the group of people such myself, who absolutely detest teenagers - me personally from the bottom of my nonexistent soul, and would rather shove dull, rusty nails in our eyes than spend a single unneeded moment with a representative of that reprehensible bunch of vat-grown nasal feces who haven't yet learned how to conduct themselves, and you end up with a quite significant portion of the game-playing audience - the average age of whom is around 30 last I checked (so as to say, people who don't necessarily appreciate the company of said teenagers) - who would rather spend their time in, for example, Nirn, rather than Azeroth.

But like I said before, you're free to spend your time in that fetid pool of lol. Just don't think your personal preference in this particular subject matter leaves you with a leg to stand on as far as claiming single player games are anything but absolutely awesome entertainment goes.

Good day, sir!

 

[designer5]

But they narratives really started to get onto my nerves. I mean, come on. I can get the infos with much less chit chat than that! The characters should get to the point, but no. They tell their stories. Also to get ahead in the game I need to do various quests with much narrative. Sure the narratives would be fine, if I wanted to do such quests. But as the main quest line is kind of required, then you are required to listen boring stuff, too. And it is always the same. You have one or couple of NPCs telling one or couple of things and you get an other check point or you finish that quest. Erm.. where are surprises? It is always either start of quest, next check point, or end of quest. And if it is a chain quest, then you get an another quest.

Like I have said, there should be stories in MMOs, but not similar off the shelf stories in a stream.

MMOs with player created content are exception as there are no narratives.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

But they narratives really started to get onto my nerves. I mean, come on. I can get the infos with much less chit chat than that! The characters should get to the point, but no. They tell their stories. Also to get ahead in the game I need to do various quests with much narrative. Sure the narratives would be fine, if I wanted to do such quests. But as the main quest line is kind of required, then you are required to listen boring stuff, too. And it is always the same. You have one or couple of NPCs telling one or couple of things and you get an other check point or you finish that quest. Erm.. where are surprises? It is always either start of quest, next check point, or end of quest. And if it is a chain quest, then you get an another quest.

Like I have said, there should be stories in MMOs, but not similar off the shelf stories in a stream.

MMOs with player created content are exception as there are no narratives.

Yes but the best part in SWTOR are group conversations and those require other people to participate, which you seem to love so much. Can't have group conversation with wall of text. Well in SWTOR you can't, waiting Original Sin yay!

 

[designer5]

Yes but the best part in SWTOR are group conversations and those require other people to participate, which you seem to love so much. Can't have group conversation with wall of text. Well in SWTOR you can't, waiting Original Sin yay!

You mean group narratives? They are nice, but again a bit lacking, when people have already read them earlier or are inpatiently just skipping them all. Then one group member wants to read every narrative... Sigh.

I think there should be no quests so much, but events that happen and then sometimes you get some narration. But the narration should not be guaranteed thing that you have to always face before you get to fight. You should be able to skip everything like in open world. And create your own path.

In a good MMO there are individual player stories, but also stories of alliances that conquer / lose territories:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nIuxgfGrOY

 

[username_3688833]

Mob wins. If a game doesn't support mobs, it lacks in features. Though that doesn't mean that a single person should not be able to do anything in a MMO game.

For example for Eve they have listed the player types like a solo player, an enabler, a leader, and such. An enabler is a person who likes to provide frames for stuff to do, eg. arrange fleet operations or projects. A leader is a person who leads people, builds organization etc. But they don't forget the solo player. They create also such content, that a solo player can play the game.

In fact I am a solo player mostly in the sense that I don't bind myself to relationships with certain individuals. But that doesn't stop me joining groups / fleets and such.

I prefer the best groups there is. Sometimes the best groups are automatic pick up groups, because they occur at times suitable for me, are pretty fine actually in the end overall, and certainly better than trying to holler in a market place for more peoples.

And on one hand sometimes certain established and maybe well known groups are better. If there is a group that has a lot of followers as a member pool and has solid code of operations, then they excel in what they are doing. Often there even isn't any automatic pick up groups available, but people have organized themselves well. Then I just join them.

Best groups get only better players to their ranks. But hey, there are beginner groups, too. So you first go to beginner groups, learn, and then get to the better groups. This is clear progress, and a challenge, and the more interesting as you get to know different kinds of people. Groups have leaders and people with different kinds of great personalities, and it is an honor to meet these people and be in their fleets.

And then single player games: Well, there is you, the stories, a difficulty setting, and some mods. But you miss out on the group activity.

Wow, that was a point completely missed. Wasn't talking about "mobs". The word derives from mob, which is an old contraction of "The Mobility", a term to define the lower classes in England, as opposed to the Nobility. The Mobility were known for their fickle nature, lack of education, taste and anything approaching sensible behavior. This is the mob, and it's they you seek approval from. The need to have others support your worldview. Unfortunately, we have a higher lowest common denominator in here than the old "Popular = win" dynamic you are used to, so all your desperation for group approval falls on, if not deaf, certainly mildly amused ears here.

Between that and your impatience for all things narrative, you really aren't achieving much in here, other than confirming the opinions of those of us who dislike MMO's, at least partially due to a profoundly immature player base. If you are even vaguely representative of the dominant paradigm in MMO land, then I, for one, am ever so happy to have given up on them...

 

[dragonbird]

OK. So it's been an interesting discussion, but the overwhelming impression is of a discussion where the primary purpose is to score points and win, rather than to express opinions and listen to the opinions of others.

There's also a slight, although unstated, expectation that all members of this forum have at least some interest in the game that's the reason for existence of this site.

If anyone is actually enjoying this debate and wants it to continue, and is prepared to provide a new batch of popcorn, feel free to PM me or one of the other mods and it will be given the attention it deserves. In the meantime, thread locked.