Analysis: With Witcher 3 CDPR no longer treat the players like adults [SPOILERS]

[TK3600]

To OP:

1. You are right and wrong at the same time. You are right because all your examples are good and well justified. You are wrong because not all of them are like your examples, there are plenty of grey characters in this game, though fixing what you mentioned would be great since they are major characters. Eredin is an exception, he is a whole different problem I will mention later.

2. Same as 1, there are enough grey choices in this game, it is not a weakness. Though it would be more interesting if game shifted more to your side. Keep in mind in witcher 3 Geralt has old friends against a common enemy. It is not as chaotic as witcher 2's civil war situation.

3. Whole heartedly agree. Though on Dijkstra part he could have taken power, since he had great success ruling prior, and could have a puppet monarch as real king.

4. I agree, though it is a much lesser problem than 1 to 3. I was pretty disgusted by the children in stew though. My friends new to the series still think the game is pretty mature compared to other games.

5. My point on Eredin: The entire game starting from Battle of Kaer Morghen is poorly made. The battle itself was good, though it was not as epic as it suppose to be because it was a bit too short. The prior build up was too good though, so the weakness is concealed. Everything else past that felt rushed or badly written, like the Dijkstra ending and not enough portrayed wild hunt and white frost.

 

[mico11]

Two of them (if Henselt live) are in alliance, rest of them have no power.

So what if they don't have big armies or a lot of influence?

There is a scene just for the purpose of feeding you exposition about the political sitaution northern kingdoms. It would have been so easy to write two or three versions of that scene, where it would fit in your choices with TW2 and also made sense.Everything from Saskia,Vergen, Anais, Adda, Stennis, Henselt, Natalis could have been covered in a logical way. And it would take no effort. They would not need to model these characters at all. It wouldn't be very satisfying but it would be something.Instead after dealing with these characters for a good portion of the last game suddenly they're erased from existence in Witcher 3. The entire north is painted Red, as if it was that simple to annex several different kingdoms with different cultures in a few months

And Henselt and Kaedwen had armies and power, but the game deals with that in a very stupid and illogical way.

Roche speak about them, they are no threat, they have no power to do anything

Scoiatel tipped the balance of power at the battle of Vergen in the second game. They also helped Foltest take back Vizima in the first game. They were very relevant then, and very much a threat. They are irrelevant in this game becuase the writers couldn't be bothered for the same reason as above. After you spent two entire games dealing with this issue they're suddenly erased from existence.

 

[str1111]

as if it was that simple to annex several different kingdoms with different cultures in a few months

Of course it is simple, when bigger enemy knock to the door, and you have enought power... look at our history:
-half Czechoslovakia anex for Germany
-Anschluss of Austria
-Rosia annexed Poland
-Poland annexed Zaolzie
There are plenty of examples... probably the best is Italian situation in WW2 (probably even it is inspiration in game), when Allies attacked on them and Germany grab half (or even more) country...
Even in Saga Kaedven annexed "lower Marche" and can do the same in TW2

Scoiatel tipped the balance of power at the battle of Vergen in the second game. They also helped Foltest take back Vizima in the first game. They were very relevant then, and very much a threat. They are irrelevant in this game becuase the writers couldn't be bothered for the same reason as above. After you spent two entire games dealing with this issue they're suddenly erased from existence.

Yep, and what is Vergen battle compared to Nilfgaard vs Redania war? Who they should help? Henselt have 3000 men, Nilfgaard and Redania more than 40000 each, and Scoyatael in Vergen battle help in the end + against need Geralt.
Next Vyzima, if Geralt don't help them, they cant win with Order of Flaming Rose... Truly power in the north.
Why then they don't grab country and live there? They need Saskia, dwarves and men from Vergen + Aedirn knights to do something like that.

 

[mico11]

Of course it is simple

NO it's not simple at all. I mean holy shit.
You can't be so dishonest to compare WW2 to medieval warfare. Medieval wars lasted for decades, Radovid annexes all the north in several months.

-half Czechoslovakia anex for Germany
Those were Germans living in Chechoslovakia that willingly joined the Reich. They weren't three different kingdoms with different cultures. So was Austria, they saw themselves as the same people. There were no differences or wars involved in these two cases. Stalin had to station men and commit genocides to keep Poland from rebelling. They did not magically gain all the polish people fighting at their side as this game idiotically implies about Kaedwen.Zaolzie is a small border territory

Who they should help?

They've been fighting for a cause for decades, now but this is all suddenly beyond them and pointless because the writers said so.

Nilfgaard and Redania more than 40000 each, and Scoyatael

Scoitael were capable enough to make big differences in the past games, in this game they're completely erased from existence. You deal with them the last two games. They were certainly a factor. It's idiotic not to even mention them when they were central to the last two games

Next Vyzima, if Geralt don't help them, they cant win with Order of Flaming Rose... Truly power in the north.

That was only one unit..

and Scoyatael in Vergen battle help in the end + against need Geralt.

They don't need Geralt as a fighter to win the battle , Scoi'atel reinforcements never arrive if you don't go with Iorveth in Vergen, he never leaves Vergen to get reinforcements . So Henselt has a lot more easier time in Vergen

 

[str1111]

NO it's not simple at all. I mean holy shit.
You can't be so dishonest to compare WW2 to medieval warfare. Medieval wars lasted for decades, Radovid annexes all the north in several months.

Ok again, Roman Empire? Many times warsend in one battle... Veni Vidi Vici
How big Rome was? How many country they conquer? Most have different culture
Persia and their big conquests?
Polish Empire? again how big it was, and how many countries, and they parts annexed?

Those were Germans living in Chechoslovakia that willingly joined the Reich. They weren't three different kingdoms with different cultures. So was Austria, they saw themselves as the same people. There were no differences or wars involved in these two cases. Stalin had to station men and commit genocides to keep Poland from rebelling. They did not magically gain all the polish people fighting at their side as this game idiotically implies about Kaedwen.Zaolzie is a small border territory

And you say Radovid magicially conquered 4 kingdoms?
Temeria don't exist, most soldiers are killed or captured. The same Aedirn, even before war they have almost no soldiers (in second war Henselt returned them lands only cause Lodge)... who can stop Radovid, when Nilfgaard was defeated? similar was with Poland (and half Europhy) in WW2 , different situation Napoleonic war, when he rebuild Poland, and when he was defeated, Poland invisible again, or if you want something older... similar situations Aleksander and his conquests, Roman Empire is next good example, or early times of Poland, where small kingdom grab their neighbors and build one of biggest Europe empire.
Radovid have even easier...


About genocides yep he kill many people (he kill polish officers), but again he build full polish army in Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_East) and give polish army weapon... As you see "They did not magically gain all the polish people fighting at their side"... not all cause rest fought on different fronts, but rest, who don't retreated to different countries, help Russia... but no it's not case why Poland don't start new war... to be honest, how many soldiers can have Poland after war, maybe 200000 in best way, and how many have Russia? few milions + tanks, etc.? Maybe with Alies they can do something, but 3 WW? No chance. and we don't speak only about Poland, he grab half Europe.

Only Kaedven have forces to fight against Redania we know when Radovid grab it.
And no they don't have different culture, they belive the same gods, they trade each other, etc. even in TW2 in cursed battle, one Aedirn warrior said that Kaedvenian are like them, and he have family there...

They've been fighting for a cause for decades, now but this is all suddenly beyond them and pointless because the writers said so.

Again, for who they should fight? Only one time they fight against full kingdoms in second Northen War, when they have Nilfgaard as allies. Rest they sit in forest and shooting to villagers, yep great fight. Again who they should attack, Redania, or Nilfgaard? Both are they enemies... and how they should fight? Attack full armies or camps? And the best, what they gain fighting? Even Francesca didn't want them...

Scoitael were capable enough to make big differences in the past games, in this game they're completely erased from existence. You deal with them the last two games. They were certainly a factor. It's idiotic not to even mention them when they were central to the last two games

And again, last two games show how much they can do, in first all nonhumans rebel against Order, and without Geralt help they can't win... with Order, not kingdom...
And in second game? Iorveth, one of biggest scoyatael leader shooting for years to some villagers... fuck he even don't atack Flotsam, cause he know he have no chance.
And in Vergen he help win, where scoyatael are only part of full army.
In second Northen War they was sponsored for Nilfgaard, and what they can do? Shoot to small forces, and build one brigade of army... sponsored by Nilfgaard.
And they mentioned, we know what they do, all what they doing for years, sit in forest, and shot to people, cause they don't have enought food.

That was only one unit..

Yep, one but biggest, and again without Geralt they can't win.

They don't need Geralt as a fighter to win the battle , Scoi'atel reinforcements never arrive if you don't go with Iorveth in Vergen, he never leaves Vergen to get reinforcements . So Henselt has a lot more easier time in Vergen

I see many elves in Vergen in Roche side, but again, Geralt protect gate, and use oil, If he isn't there, than who do this? And again Geralt kill soldiers who go to city for mines, if not he, Kaedwen can attack back door, what we see in Roche side... Detmold waiting in mine for enemies, rest men attack city.

 

[mico11]

Ok again, Roman Empire? Many times warsend in one battle... Veni Vidi Vici
How big Rome was? How many country they conquer? Most have different culture
Persia and their big conquests?

These expanded over several generations,decades, centuries even. Radovid does it in 2-3 months while being under siege from a bigger empire. If you can't see hwo this is bad writing and world building, then I'm really done responding to you

but again he build full polish army in Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish...es_in_the_East)

Theese are irrelevant number of soldiers compared to the manpower needed to hold these territories together.

And no they don't have different culture, they belive the same gods, they trade each other,

Play Witcher 2, it goes to great lengths to show that the Kaedweni are different from the others, in culture , clothing accents. They were not the same people

Yep, one but biggest, and again without Geralt they can't win.

Where is it mentioned that this is the biggest unit? And this case is similar to the one in Vergen, they don't need Geralt to win they needed Vivaldi's gold which Geralt helped them acquire

And in Vergen he help win, where scoyatael are only part of full army.

They were important enough to tip the scales in two major events. Again, it's idiotic not to even mention what they're doing in this war, especially after dealing two games with them ,how do you not understand this?

I see many elves in Vergen in Roche side, but again, Geralt protect gate, and use oil, If he isn't there, than who do this?

Oh it was the oil, lol. The game is obvious why one side wins, Iorveth goes on to find Scoi'atel units as reinforcements. They were losing the fight but Iorveth arrives and saves the day. If you're not with him in Vergen, he never does this he stays by Saskia's side.

 

[WitcherIsOverrated]

I agree with one exception (well maybe 2 cause I hate politics, and I'm sick of it so when it's simplified that's not a bad thing for me).
In 4 e: just because Geralt is immune to diseases and sterile he should f*** everything that moves, and should not commit to one woman? Sorry but that's f**king stupid!

 

[Maerd]

just because Geralt is immune to diseases and sterile he should f*** everything that moves, and should not commit to one woman? Sorry but that's f**king stupid!

Please, don't use a fallacy for an argument. To explain, let's substitute sex with alcohol. Alcoholism is also shunned in our society as much as uncontrolled sexual behavior. Let's imagine, Geralt was depicted in TW3 drinking vodka only upon official celebrations (Kaer Trolde) and in the rest of scenes there would be shown an opportunity to drink but shown a bogus excuses why Geralt refuses... well, that would be nonsense if you aware of Geralt character and considering he has strong resistance to toxins. Would it be a fair criticism that by doing that developers in such case would make an artificial and out of place propaganda of the healthy lifestyle? Yes, of course. Does it mean that by criticism of bogus excuses we would argue to make Geralt an alcoholic? Of course, no. The same with sexual encounters, it just needs to be enough to make sense and no bogus excuses. By the way, it would be fine if the opportunity won't be present but if it is present then I'm for providing all the options, which a player don't have to persue.

 

[Guest 3847602]

The same with sexual encounters, it just needs to be enough to make sense and no bogus excuses. By the way, it would be fine if the opportunity won't be present but if it is present then I'm for providing all the options, which a player don't have to persue.

How much encounters are "enough" for it to make sense? Cause I can tell you right now, 7 are more than enough for me, personally (MUCH more). And that's even without brothels.
Also, what opportunity is present, but not all the options are provided for players to pursue?

 

[Maerd]

How much encounters are "enough" for it to make sense? Cause I can tell you right now, 7 are more than enough for me, personally (MUCH more). And that's even without brothels.

Firstly it's five in the base game, out of which one (Iron Maden) is a bogus. When I wrote the original post no expansions existed. Enough means that if the devs provide the content where the female character clearly flirts with Geralt then, knowing Geralt's background, there should be an option to proceed with the encounter or to ignore/refuse. Var Attre's quest is a good example of a strange writing. There are other places too, I don't want to write another wall of text to point out everything, especially considering a huge butthurt of some people when they are discussing this topic. The number of "enough" is a number that makes sense. For example, Hearts of Stone has only one encounter, its well-done, and it fills the "enough" requirement for that particular plot because everything make sense there. For Wild Hunt it is not enough for that particular plot. For Blood and Wine it is epic fail because there are no non-bogus encounters given the plot.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Enough means that if the devs provide the content where the female character clearly flirts with Geralt then, knowing Geralt's background, there should be an option to proceed with the encounter or to ignore/refuse. Var Attre's quest is a good example of a strange writing.

Nothing strange about Rosa var Attre, she was flirting with Geralt so she could use him as an excuse to get out of the house and do something fun. Fun doesn't mean sex for her, apparently. That became quite obvious to Geralt as soon as he met her at the bridge.
What other characters clearly flirts with him?

 

[ilayoeli]

Agree with OP
That's what happened when something good like TW series becomes so big, it loses its souls.
The combat is childish, the quest design is childish and the writing is childish (and bad)

 

[WitcherIsOverrated]

Please, don't use a fallacy for an argument. To explain, let's substitute sex with alcohol. Alcoholism is also shunned in our society as much as uncontrolled sexual behavior. Let's imagine, Geralt was depicted in TW3 drinking vodka only upon official celebrations (Kaer Trolde) and in the rest of scenes there would be shown an opportunity to drink but shown a bogus excuses why Geralt refuses... well, that would be nonsense if you aware of Geralt character and considering he has strong resistance to toxins. Would it be a fair criticism that by doing that developers in such case would make an artificial and out of place propaganda of the healthy lifestyle? Yes, of course. Does it mean that by criticism of bogus excuses we would argue to make Geralt an alcoholic? Of course, no. The same with sexual encounters, it just needs to be enough to make sense and no bogus excuses. By the way, it would be fine if the opportunity won't be present but if it is present then I'm for providing all the options, which a player don't have to persue.

Uncontrolled sexual behavior is shunned? By religulous people yeah, or just individuals, but mass media seems like don't oppose it, and even support it, as long as it's with protection. It's not exactly a good comparison, as alcohol IS harmful even in reasonalble quantities. And the game does NOT forbid you from being a man whore, you still have lots of opportunities.
And why do you assume that every female should be interested in Geralt? This way you could object that a player can't romance with Ciri as well (cause you can't right?).
You should even object that you can't have a three way with Van Attere twins...
btw.
Geralt is resistant to toxins but still gets drunk (?).

 

[mico11]

You know what really grinded my gears.

This preachy pseudo-intellectual cynical BS right here

It takes the entire human / nonhuman believable complex conflict the two previous games carefully set up , and also the lodge of sorceresses political plotting the games set up and turns it into

"Hurr human are biggots and evil, they always need a scapegoat hurr, they will turn on their neighbors because they always need to burn something hurr , it's not about witches"

Oh fuck off really. I should have quit playing right there, but I made the mistake of actually suffering trough the last 4 hours of the main game

 

[Garrison72]

You know what really grinded my gears.

This preachy pseudo-intellectual cynical BS right here

It takes the entire human / nonhuman believable complex conflict the two previous games carefully set up , and also the lodge of sorceresses political plotting the games set up and turns it into

"Hurr human are biggots and evil, they always need a scapegoat hurr, they will turn on their neighbors because they always need to burn something hurr , it's not about witches"

Oh fuck off really. I should have quit playing right there, but I made the mistake of actually suffering trough the last 4 hours of the main game

I honestly don't think they were trying to be preachy. It's just another casualty of switching writing teams and lazy writing. Why exactly did the hunters turn to non humans? What political shift occurred? They may have a valid point about bigotry and distrusting outsiders, but without good plot development to show why stuff happens, it comes of as hamfisted moralizing.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Play Witcher 2, it goes to great lengths to show that the Kaedweni are different from the others, in culture , clothing accents. They were not the same people

True, they spoke about it in this dev diary. Kaedweni weren't just Temerians or Redanians in yellow uniforms.
Also, in the same video (at around 4:07) we can see what Nilfgaard represented before TW3. :lol:

 

[mico11]

True, they spoke about it in this dev diary. Kaedweni weren't just Temerians or Redanians in yellow uniforms.
Also, in the same video (at around 4:07) we can see what Nilfgaard represented before TW3. :lol:

"Nilfgaard. Totalitarianism. We wanted to remind people of conquistadors, of the Thrid Reich, of I don't know, an Empire of Evil."

LOL, I like that guy

 

[str1111]

These expanded over several generations,decades, centuries even. Radovid does it in 2-3 months while being under siege from a bigger empire. If you can't see hwo this is bad writing and world building, then I'm really done responding to you

Again, not centries, and generations, I give only examples of nations. Alexander grab whole knowing world for few years his life, Cezar grab Galia (in one year), Brittany (again one year), etc.
Occupation Kaedven is nothing unrealistic, biggest problem is lack of informations about it, and few months is enought time. All what is need to do this, is killed Henselt, and get support of the Kaedwen nobility, what is not so hard after Henselt dead (I recall, they want kill him in TW2), and situation of country (without king, and support of Redania, they have no hance against Nilfgaard).

I can't give you exacly same situation, is just impossible, I can ony show you something simmilar...

Theese are irrelevant number of soldiers compared to the manpower needed to hold these territories together.

And in another fronts there are next (more than 50000 in Italy)... And you ignored that Temeria and Aedirn have no (or almost no) soldiers in the end of war...

Play Witcher 2, it goes to great lengths to show that the Kaedweni are different from the others, in culture , clothing accents. They were not the same people

You mean clouthing and accents means different culture? In Poland are plenty different regions, with different accent and clothing... whole North speaking in "common" language, they belive in same gods, and be plenty times in coalitions... if this is different culture, what about Rome and Egypt? Or Nilfgaard and North?
https://youtu.be/8-Yxvbw259Y?t=3m45s

Where is it mentioned that this is the biggest unit? And this case is similar to the one in Vergen, they don't need Geralt to win they needed Vivaldi's gold which Geralt helped them acquire

Give im Vivaldi gold and go neutral...
Nonewhere is said its obvious. Biggest battle betwen Order and elves was in Vyzima marshes, Toruviel/Raila back with they warriors to Vyzima, in Vyzima is Great Master, to pacyficate rest of order in northen Temeria (and Redania) Foltest use Redanian soldiers, in the end Foltest soldiers fight agains Order, etc.
If scoyatael win, they win mostly in Vyzima and close to it.

They were important enough to tip the scales in two major events. Again, it's idiotic not to even mention what they're doing in this war, especially after dealing two games with them ,how do you not understand this?

Yep, and all events in TW1 and 2 are small size compared to TW3... battle against Order, or against expedition, vs fight against two big armies... not their size.

Oh it was the oil, lol. The game is obvious why one side wins, Iorveth goes on to find Scoi'atel units as reinforcements. They were losing the fight but Iorveth arrives and saves the day. If you're not with him in Vergen, he never does this he stays by Saskia's side.

Only oil? Without this they lost gate... and even if so, Iorveth save the day, but without rest of Vergen soldiers... scoyatael just don't win battle.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

why would they treat all player like adults when not all players are adults?

 

[Guest 3847602]

"Nilfgaard. Totalitarianism. We wanted to remind people of conquistadors, of the Thrid Reich, of I don't know, an Empire of Evil."

LOL, I like that guy

Maybe a bit extreme, but those words still describe their role in the source material far more accurately than TW3 does.
Saviors of the North and providers of peace and stability? Gimme a break... I wouldn't even have a problem with this if they stayed with either vision of Nilfgaard consistently throughout the entire game series. The last game in the trilogy isn't the best time to do such flip-flop.