And GWENT is uninstalled... sadly

[StrykerxS77x]

So OP that I've never lost to this card...ever and I'm not even that good of a player.
Like, come on guys, you can claim it to be annoying but OP is really out of context.

I don't think my post was clear enough. The mention of the card being "OP" was in reference to your hypothetical on if you could SELECT the card that you are banishing. Of course that would be OP.

I called the card broken because it's horribly designed and it does something no card should be able to do.

Well, they're bad cards now so, you can lose to them but it means either you made a mistake or the match up is tough either way.
RNG is like anything else, it's fine as long as it's fair, which is the usual issue with it because it's very difficult to make a card based on RNG that's fair (it's not really compatible). Yet, CDPR managed to make the one I mentioned above balanced and fair. You can still lose to them because everyone can lose to a bad card but they're bad cards now, they're not the annoying 4 provision card that increases its value by a quart on a good roll.

The bigger roll RNG cards are terrible but I don't generally like any RNG card. It's unnecessary. Just make an interesting card and leave the RNG BS out of it.

 

[4RM3D]

The discussion about Nilfgaard Reveal has been moved to its own thread. Please, use the thread below to continue the discussion.

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/reveal-needs-complete-overhaul.10987505

 

[StrykerxS77x]

So, banishing from a GY or board is okay but from the deck, this is where you cross the line? Odd, very odd.

I have to respond to this one as well. You really don't agree that banishing from someones deck is bad for the game? I mean going into someone's deck is completely different than banishing on the board or from the graveyard.

 

[BoYoDes]

... So, banishing from a GY or board is okay but from the deck, this is where you cross the line? Odd, very odd...

Some of us still have nightmares of good old Donnar...

 

[Esmer]

So, banishing from a GY or board is okay but from the deck, this is where you cross the line? Odd, very odd.

Banishing from a deck punishes all decks. Banishing from the board or a graveyard punishes only some decks. Moreover, choosing a specific card to banish requires skill. Banishing a random card requires no skill at all. Finally, since there are no counterspells in Gwent, it's not possible to react when opponent is messing with your deck.

To sum it up, banishing from the deck is a bad mechanic, because:

- It's an autoinclude because it's good against every deck
- It requires no skill (in RNG variant)
- It doesn't provide any chance to react to it (but you can play around banishing from the board or a graveyard)

Banishing from the board/GY is a good mechanic, because:

- It lets you counter some decks without being too strong against others
- It requires skill (choosing which card and when to ban)
- You can play around banishing by not playing a critical card until later in the round/next round

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Banishing from a deck punishes all decks. Banishing from the board or a graveyard punishes only some decks. Moreover, choosing a specific card to banish requires skill. Banishing a random card requires no skill at all. Finally, since there are no counterspells in Gwent, it's not possible to react when opponent is messing with your deck.

To sum it up, banishing from the deck is a bad mechanic, because:

- It's an autoinclude because it's good against every deck
- It requires no skill (in RNG variant)
- It doesn't provide any chance to react to it (but you can play around banishing from the board or a graveyard)

Banishing from the board/GY is a good mechanic, because:

- It lets you counter some decks without being too strong against others
- It requires skill (choosing which card and when to ban)
- You can play around banishing by not playing a critical card until later in the round/next round

The most important part for me is how terrible it feels to have someone taking shit out of your deck. That is extremely unfun and unnecessary. With cards on the board or in the graveyard at least you got to play the cards before the opponent does something to them.

 

[nedders]

Soon as you hit 15 it turns to utter shit, for me. I played from 15 at the start, uninstalled because the experience was utter crap and highly suspect, then literally started again. It's not that bad at the lower end, some occasionally interesting decks and a feeling at times that you're earning the win. I ended up with 3x as many wins for losses and - no - I haven't spent a penny on it, just built from scratch.

Then level 15 hits. Your deals get less and less forgiving, the matchups become more and more frustratingly similar (whatever you get beat by, you'll be playing against it 8/10 times), you always seem to face off against someone who has the exact right deal at the exact right time, whereas you're dealt and left with crap.

I don't know what it is - I pressed and pressed CDPR but there's something about Gwent that just doesn't sit right with matchups and subsequent quality of deal. I absolutely hate the "best deal wins" aspect. And, yes, I know I've benefited from it enough times, but it should be absolutely equal for each player as then it would come down to who knows the strategy, who can think ahead, playing cards at the right time, etc. Now? You get a hand of non-synergy filler bronze, you lose. Got you bronze/gold synergy? You win. And occasionally you both get a decent deal and it ends up being a decent game. I have NO idea whatsoever why CDPR cannot see this and fix it. All you have to do is ensure there's an algorithm for the initial deal, but it's mirrored between players based on card value. Your 25 cards have an ascending order, 1-25. If you're dealt cards 1-10 in terms of value, you're going to win. If your OPPONENT is ALSO dealt 1-10, you might not. It would make the game MUCH MUCH BETTER.

 

[BoYoDes]

... Then level 15 hits. Your deals get less and less forgiving, the matchups become more and more frustratingly similar (whatever you get beat by, you'll be playing against it 8/10 times), you always seem to face off against someone who has the exact right deal at the exact right time, whereas you're dealt and left with crap...

You know there's someone on the other side of the stick too (that gets to play against a deck that his is countering), right?

 

[rrc]

Soon as you hit 15 it turns to utter shit, for me. I played from 15 at the start, uninstalled because the experience was utter crap and highly suspect, then literally started again. It's not that bad at the lower end, some occasionally interesting decks and a feeling at times that you're earning the win. I ended up with 3x as many wins for losses and - no - I haven't spent a penny on it, just built from scratch.

Then level 15 hits. Your deals get less and less forgiving, the matchups become more and more frustratingly similar (whatever you get beat by, you'll be playing against it 8/10 times), you always seem to face off against someone who has the exact right deal at the exact right time, whereas you're dealt and left with crap.

I don't know what it is - I pressed and pressed CDPR but there's something about Gwent that just doesn't sit right with matchups and subsequent quality of deal. I absolutely hate the "best deal wins" aspect. And, yes, I know I've benefited from it enough times, but it should be absolutely equal for each player as then it would come down to who knows the strategy, who can think ahead, playing cards at the right time, etc. Now? You get a hand of non-synergy filler bronze, you lose. Got you bronze/gold synergy? You win. And occasionally you both get a decent deal and it ends up being a decent game. I have NO idea whatsoever why CDPR cannot see this and fix it. All you have to do is ensure there's an algorithm for the initial deal, but it's mirrored between players based on card value. Your 25 cards have an ascending order, 1-25. If you're dealt cards 1-10 in terms of value, you're going to win. If your OPPONENT is ALSO dealt 1-10, you might not. It would make the game MUCH MUCH BETTER.

Nedders if your win rate is above 50% you should be happy. I hope that the Mulligan changes help a lot as you can remove your bricks in every round.

Also, try to watch some pro streamers like FreddyBabes and SirPumpkin.. their thought process will help you to handle bad hands and what to do in difficult situations. When and why they pass gives a great insight. Good Luck!

 

[nedders]

You know there's someone on the other side of the stick too (that gets to play against a deck that his is countering), right?

No, I know that - I did say I've benefited from good deals as much as been defeated by bad ones. I just think a large part of the game is about creating synergies, balancing your cards, etc. - that dynamic shouldn't be crapped on so easily by a poor deal mechanic. The old Gwent deal and no upper hand limit helped mitigate against these flaws, I just think it's simple to even up the order of cards dealt so both get the same. Even just trial it as a game mode?

I can win about 70% of the time anyway, and do know I lose to better players. I just want to suggest something that really helps level things, take as much RNG out of it as possible.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Soon as you hit 15 it turns to utter shit, for me. I played from 15 at the start, uninstalled because the experience was utter crap and highly suspect, then literally started again. It's not that bad at the lower end, some occasionally interesting decks and a feeling at times that you're earning the win. I ended up with 3x as many wins for losses and - no - I haven't spent a penny on it, just built from scratch.

Then level 15 hits. Your deals get less and less forgiving, the matchups become more and more frustratingly similar (whatever you get beat by, you'll be playing against it 8/10 times), you always seem to face off against someone who has the exact right deal at the exact right time, whereas you're dealt and left with crap.

I don't know what it is - I pressed and pressed CDPR but there's something about Gwent that just doesn't sit right with matchups and subsequent quality of deal. I absolutely hate the "best deal wins" aspect. And, yes, I know I've benefited from it enough times, but it should be absolutely equal for each player as then it would come down to who knows the strategy, who can think ahead, playing cards at the right time, etc. Now? You get a hand of non-synergy filler bronze, you lose. Got you bronze/gold synergy? You win. And occasionally you both get a decent deal and it ends up being a decent game. I have NO idea whatsoever why CDPR cannot see this and fix it. All you have to do is ensure there's an algorithm for the initial deal, but it's mirrored between players based on card value. Your 25 cards have an ascending order, 1-25. If you're dealt cards 1-10 in terms of value, you're going to win. If your OPPONENT is ALSO dealt 1-10, you might not. It would make the game MUCH MUCH BETTER.

I really don't get how you can even complain about this. There is literally nothing to fix here. Card games have draw RNG and there is no changing that. Ask for more mulligans if you want but complaining about the cards you draw is silly. I can't believe you actually asked Burza about this and he rightfully acted baffled by the question because it's such a ridiculous complaint.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

So, banishing from a GY or board is okay but from the deck, this is where you cross the line? Odd, very odd.

What is so odd about it? As an earlier post pointed out do you recall Donar? Yeah, a card that was constantly hit with complaints because it was arbitrarily deciding games and could be played multiple times to fubar a deck.

The difference with a GY or board banish is it's based on a calculated, informed decision. A card hits the board and you decide to remove or banish it to deny value. A card is in the GY so you do the same. Almost every card built to take from the deck is centered around RNG (I think Quax is the exception, and even it is partially RNG based). There is little to no player ability involvement with deck hate. In the cases where it does exist there is almost zero counter-play.

Games should not be decided by RNG integrated into the cards themselves. This is why people had a problem with create. Draw/mulligan RNG can be planned and adjusted around. A deck can be built to accommodate failing to find specific cards. Card plays and decisions made by the other player can be adjusted around. It's extremely difficult to adjust around a card getting the right or wrong result, either as the person on the receiving end or as the user, respectively. About the best you can do is account for all of the results and, given the board state, match-up, etc., decide how you will proceed depending on the outcome. Unfortunately, even this often doesn't matter.

The irony is it was supposedly acknowledged players did not want this type of behavior in the game. The claim was the developers would be "more careful" with these concepts in the future. Yet, here we are.

 

[aiat_gamer]

I really don't get how you can even complain about this. There is literally nothing to fix here. Card games have draw RNG and there is no changing that. Ask for more mulligans if you want but complaining about the cards you draw is silly. I can't believe you actually asked Burza about this and he rightfully acted baffled by the question because it's such a ridiculous complaint.

Thank you. It boggles my mind whenever people play card games and complain about RNG. Maybe they want to be able to pick and choose from their entire deck at any time? I have no idea!

 

[SamweisGankMe]

how about stop hating homecoming in any way and try to help ...

in my opinion the easiest way to make all of us happy is to open a second server where we can play gwent beta.

it would be great to have the game back that i loved

love it or hate it, its the easiest way !!

 

[on5]

The main issue with Gwent is whenever a good deck is created and it starts winning, cdprojektred nerfs it.

Why?

Why punish others for their creativity when it's not their mistake that a developer overlooked a good card combo? Stop nerfing cards. Let other's use their creativity to find ways to beat the creativity of the deck you are wanting to nerf. Maybe the world series of poker should change the value of an Ace since it's too powerful. What has been done to this game by the devs is no different. Pretend this is a cartridge game and that once it's released, it is what it is and cannot be patched. That's how real games are made. Texas Holdem has the same guys winning multiple bracelets. There's randomness there, yet skill prevails. That is how Gwent should be. RNG should not trump skill. Stop increasing RNG to appease weaker players. Would you dumb down the game of Chess or would you tell people to play it and get good? Don't be one of those developers that caters to the mindest that everyone deserves a trophy. There are winners and there are losers, and the sooner people understand this the better.

"but it's just a game"

Poker is a game. Chess is a game.

Let it sink in.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

The main issue with Gwent is whenever a good deck is created and it starts winning, cdprojektred nerfs it.

Why?

Why punish others for their creativity when it's not their mistake that a developer overlooked a good card combo? Stop nerfing cards. Let other's use their creativity to find ways to beat the creativity of the deck you are wanting to nerf. Maybe the world series of poker should change the value of an Ace since it's too powerful. What has been done to this game by the devs is no different. Pretend this is a cartridge game and that once it's released, it is what it is and cannot be patched. That's how real games are made. Texas Holdem has the same guys winning multiple bracelets. There's randomness there, yet skill prevails. That is how Gwent should be. RNG should not trump skill. Stop increasing RNG to appease weaker players. Would you dumb down the game of Chess or would you tell people to play it and get good? Don't be one of those developers that caters to the mindest that everyone deserves a trophy. There are winners and there are losers, and the sooner people understand this the better.

"but it's just a game"

Poker is a game. Chess is a game.

Let it sink in.

The comparison to poker and chess doesn't work at all.

 

[on5]

It applies perfectly actually. Those games have little luck, and that is how Gwent should be. Not some RNG fest that caters to less skilled players so that they have more of a chance. If you want to play that type of game go play exploding kittens. Don't try to defend what the devs are doing. It won't give you any bonus kegs.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

It applies perfectly actually. Those games have little luck, and that is how Gwent should be. Not some RNG fest that caters to less skilled players so that they have more of a chance. If you want to play that type of game go play exploding kittens. Don't try to defend what the devs are doing. It won't give you any bonus kegs.

In regards to defending the devs maybe I should link you to my multiple other threads being very very critical of the devs and homecoming. I am not shy about giving negative feedback.

I don't understand your argument about not nerfing cards. Nerfing is a tool that simply has to be utilized in CCG's to some extent. Some cards are simply too strong and players discover tactics that the devs did not intend. Sihil is one clear example of this. Your poker analogy doesn't work at all since you are comparing games that are 100% different. Poker is not a collectible card game. It's a game that is created to be played in one way and it needs no updates. Both players have access to the exact same cards in every game played. A collectible card game needs updates and balance patches. Especially one that has just been released and still needs a LOT of work.

Are you really arguing that the cards should just be released and then never tweaked at all?

 

[Fimbulthrym]

Poker isnt a good comparison, becaue the game itself is based on carddraw and luck but you have the betting system too, which reduces the RNG by implementing a psychological aspect. Do Gwent have a 2nd system, that works like the betting system? No. It all comes down to what cards do you have. You cant deny a great combo or even single card by bluffing or put pressure at your opponent. So you think we should just wait and see how people wil try to counter some combos? We already did that in the 6 months before HC or more recently the faction challenge. And you know what? Most people just join the winning combo instead of play against it.

 

[partci]

how about stop hating homecoming in any way and try to help ...

How about stop giving a slop to my hat?

No one wrote here for A WEEK. Maybe for a reason, you asked yourself this question?

We've got tired of waiting, I guess. I don't see light in the end of this tunnel. Every time I see the way the game looks and plays now I die inside (The Great Dendelion Show, for a sad example).

I'm still checking the forum cause I've been here HELPING for two years. To what or who's avail? Not for the 80% of the veteran player base that was chased away, as any person that can count to ten can tell by all sorts of numbers.

Whatever.