Annoying HoS "underground drug factory" battle, and what it says about W3

[snogglethorpe]

Annoying HoS "underground drug factory" battle, and what it says about W3

I'm in the underground drug factory sidequest (manned by some religious guys gone bad), where you end up in the following scenario:

1. Long dialog with interactions and many speech segments you need to skip individually if you want to skip.
2. ... followed by unescapable transition into battle
3. ... where you're surrounded by a lot of fairly hefty enemies
4. ... and you have very little room to maneuver...
5. ... especially as there are many obstacles and vertical stuff (ladders, platforms, etc)
6. ... which are impossible to handle in battle mode (you can't climb or jump)
7. ... and in the W3 it's impossible to disengage battle mode
8. ... unless you run away
9. ... which you can't do, as you're trapped in an underground space
10. ... which you can't escape unless you exit battle mode
11. ... which you can't do (repeat ad nauseum)

To make it worse, of course, the W3's tooth-grindingly-long loading times combined with the annoyingly lengthy and interactive dialog that you are forced into following loading make every retry at the battle very annoying (45 seconds of dialog, 30 seconds getting killed, 5 minutes loading, 45 seconds dialog... ><)

I understand, challenging battle, I gotta man up and just do it, yada yada, great, but I think this isn't just my poor battle skills, it also reflects somewhat badly on the W3 game design and implementation:

• There should always be a savepoint or a way to save between a long dialog and a battle.
• W3 load times are way, way, too long (ok, everybody already knows this). I'm sure it's technically challenging to make load times shorter generally, but in this sort of restricted scenario, maybe there could be some sort of fast specialized save/load that makes the common case of retrying a battle multiple times less insane.
• There should be some way of disengaging from combat if you just want to run away, without forcing you to do combat rolls 3km down the road or trapping you in battles like this case.
• There should at least be some way of handling ladders, jumping, etc, while in battle; maybe a forced disengage would be enough, but a simple "jump while in combat" ability would also be welcome.

Don't get me wrong, I really like W3's combat (and W3) generally, but it most certainly isn't perfect....

[Sadly I know full well that none of this stuff will get fixed anytime soon, so I'll have to grit my teeth and spend an hour trying and reloading and trying and reloading and ... >< ]

 

[cyberpunkforever]

if you respect the recommended level to play the expansion, there are no problems, this fight will only be a problem if you are below the recommended level, besides this fight in the cave makes totally sense, for geralt is trying to finds the hide out of the bad guys, hidden i a cave, and it is totally unexpected, and you have potions, oils, bombs, use them, a witcher is faster and stronger than humans, it is already an advantage,

the combat system is not perfect, but there are no problems with this quest/fight

 

[Kono9]

Can't beat, too hard, Fix?? <-- gamer these day... lol...
Annoying?? nope, not at all.. I actually love love the challenge HoS presented. The thing about W3 battle system, if you can't beat something, obviously it mean you have to look at your build. Think critically, study your opponent moves, their weakness, and learn how to work with your signs or specialty to your advantage. You already have the power in your hands, you just need to know how to use them. The battle system required strategy. Just keep trying, the reward is worth it! GLHF!

 

[snogglethorpe]

I'm above the recommended level for the expansion.

You can obviously quibble about the difficulty, and no doubt it's simply because I'm not great at battles, but I don't think that invalidates any of the points I made, which are general problems with W3 combat (and loading). They manifest many other times too, it's just that they were especially noticeable for me in this particular scenario, as the usual workarounds (rolling away from a battle) didn't work well.

In particular, I think few people would object to loading being faster!

 

[Kurgen]

If load times are unbearable (in any game), there's one solution to cover them all; SSD. In over 30 years of gaming, this is the one upgrade that made a phenomenal difference to something that's been a bugbear in pretty much every new AAA release, and now that they're far more affordable, and getting cheaper by the week, it's never made more sense to do it.

/assuming you don't already have an SSD? I hope not, because it shouldn't be slow - mine loads from menu to in-game in about 7 seconds.

 

[iCake]

1) That fight isn't too hard.

2) There has to be an option to jump in combat. As far as I can see it an option to disengage from combat could be the best solution here.

3) If a cutscene leads to a brawl, there has to be a quick autosave before the fight.

4) The loading times are indeed obscene. Especially if you're a console player. I don't know how but they need to improve on this technical aspect of the game across all platforms
.
5) It's not the first time their design comes out a little bit off.

For instance: adding 2 additional quick slots for consumables is definitely a welcome change, but implementation for those who play with a controller... Nah, not so great. You have to hold down "up" or "down" on d-pad to switch between your respective quick slots, then when the swap is done, you have to tap "up" or "down" to use a consumable of your choice.

Why not just arrange it this way: tap for the primary quick slot and hold for the secondary quick slot. Not only is this faster, but also less confusing. You don't have to worry which quick slot is active at the time.

 

[PillarBiter]

It's not the battle or the system (ok, there may be SOME things with the system, but that's not at the core), it's you.

You indeed start that fight surrounded, yes, however, nothing you can't fix by changing yourself. E.g. there are annoying sniper enemies --> use the new glyphword which reflects arrows or equip the arrow parry ability.
are there many enemies? Build up your sign intensity and aard or yrden followed by whirl with the new runeword.
Build up your domination to have 2 buddies at once.
Build up your carpet bombing ability plus oils which defend you.


I mean really, there are plenty of options. Does the long load time annoy? sure, sure. Should there have been an automatic savepoint after the long dialogue? Probably. Should CD change these things because you die often? Heck no.

 

[dmcaldw]

Roll and run out of that area almost to the entrance on the board walk over swamp gas area they come at you single file almost and keep to the walk area it doesn't take long to bump them off that way .

 

[Krull32]

Can't beat, too hard, Fix?? <-- gamer these day... lol...

This....
This game is so easy in so many points and so many people still complain about it's too hard...Reduce difficulty if you have problems.
Btw, you can skip dialogues. You don't need to hear them every time.

Btw, i liked this Quest :like:

W3 load times are way, way, too long

Not here, and i don't have a SSD. So its not CDPR's fault.

 

[Pug.]

if you respect the recommended level to play the expansion, there are no problems, this fight will only be a problem if you are below the recommended level, besides this fight in the cave makes totally sense, for geralt is trying to finds the hide out of the bad guys, hidden i a cave, and it is totally unexpected, and you have potions, oils, bombs, use them, a witcher is faster and stronger than humans, it is already an advantage,

the combat system is not perfect, but there are no problems with this quest/fight

That's not necessarily true. I've had trouble with this quest for the same reasons that the OP listed, and I went into it over-leveled. I think I was level 37 or 38, with mastercrafted Wolven armor. Granted I am playing on DM, but it does seem needlessly tedious and poorly designed. I think I've died more in this cave than I did against Iris' Biggest Fear.

---------- Updated at 01:53 PM ----------

If load times are unbearable (in any game), there's one solution to cover them all; SSD. In over 30 years of gaming, this is the one upgrade that made a phenomenal difference to something that's been a bugbear in pretty much every new AAA release, and now that they're far more affordable, and getting cheaper by the week, it's never made more sense to do it.

/assuming you don't already have an SSD? I hope not, because it shouldn't be slow - mine loads from menu to in-game in about 7 seconds.

That doesn't really help people who are playing on consoles. I know we are worthless trash, but still.

---------- Updated at 01:55 PM ----------

It's not the battle or the system (ok, there may be SOME things with the system, but that's not at the core), it's you.

You indeed start that fight surrounded, yes, however, nothing you can't fix by changing yourself. E.g. there are annoying sniper enemies --> use the new glyphword which reflects arrows or equip the arrow parry ability.
are there many enemies? Build up your sign intensity and aard or yrden followed by whirl with the new runeword.
Build up your domination to have 2 buddies at once.
Build up your carpet bombing ability plus oils which defend you.


I mean really, there are plenty of options. Does the long load time annoy? sure, sure. Should there have been an automatic savepoint after the long dialogue? Probably. Should CD change these things because you die often? Heck no.

Those are some good strategies there, will have to try those out. Although this fight does make me feel like CDPR's way of selling the new glyphword system to gamers, which I honestly find underwhelming.

 

[Lieste]

Wolven isn't the best choice against human enemies.

You'd be better off with Nilfgaardian (second tier of dlc armour, but first isn't horrible) or Undvik. You need resistances against slashing, piercing and bludgeoning... and most witcher sets have gaps in one or more of these...

Bear is ok, but Wolven and Griffon are weak against piercing, and Feline is hopeless against bludgeoning.

You can get better overall values by mixing and matching components too, and boost resistances using alchemy skills and hanged man's venom.

Using fleet footed and the most appropriate equipment can dramatically reduce the frequency of damaging hits, and the resulting damage as well.

 

[Sunsibar]

I just got lucky with this quest then Geralt's feet kept getting bugged a lot in that area. He was like crouching in the air and every hit with the sword, sparks was flying. When I entered this battle, feetbug striked again. I was just flyrolling over those obstacles and I was still able to hit enemies. No problem there, didn't die. Although it was still a challenge with so many enemies.

There really should be option to use ladders and jump in battle mode. I don't mind small battlegrounds, but I just hate it when I can't jump over the fence. There is archer on the other side and I have to (slow)run "hundred miles" to get there myself.

Edit: And about those loading screens... They are long sometimes, yes. Good point is, that you don't have to watch loading screens every time you open the door! It just occurs (the long one) if you change the map or die. The short ones with the fast travel are ok. So stay alive

 

[CoconutChriss]

I'm not 100% sure if I think about the same location here. But if this is the case then I'm quite surprised nobody has recommended the best solution yet: After the battle starts you have to go back a litte, there is a small footbridge. And LEFT and RIGHT are huge clouds of flammable gas... lure the enemies there - they are quite a powerful group - and let Igni speak. The best version of Golden Oriole makes this a cakewalk, since you don't suffer poison damage, you even get healed by the gas.

Without this "trick" I wouldn't have managed to beat them either, since it's fucking hard else.

 

[LegioXII]

when i cant win a fight fairly i just pop a petri's philter a tawny owl and alt cast igni at everyone

 

[Zcorck]

On the knights, I just Aarded them to the ground so I could one-shot them and then I'd Igni the remaining (halberdier?) and shield guy.

 

[octavian123]

Use fire bombs.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

use quen repeatedly and throw bombs, north wind to freeze the enemies and dancing star to burn them

 

[jj284b]

i think this was the only battle i died several times in HoS.. yet it was my fault as i ran into that cave with depleted potions so i couldnt replenish my health.. anyway i won it after 3-4 attempts on DM, while using Mastercrafted Wolven gear. My tactics was to slowly move backwards, not allowing them to surround me, rolling away if necessary, while when they were forced to fight in that coridor, i could take them one on one, especially thanks to occasional insta-kill.. used counterattack a lot, quen and igni, and occasional bomb i still had.. (its kinda funny, but i managed to kill caretaker in my first attempt, but i had all potions refilled back then.. yet it took me some time to figure him out and i spent all White Raffards to survive)

but overall, i loved all quests and encounters in HoS. it was fun playing new adventures i didnt knew (played base game over and over, finished it like 5times already)

 

[dragonbird]

I'm not 100% sure if I think about the same location here. But if this is the case then I'm quite surprised nobody has recommended the best solution yet: After the battle starts you have to go back a litte, there is a small footbridge. And LEFT and RIGHT are huge clouds of flammable gas... lure the enemies there - they are quite a powerful group - and let Igni speak. The best version of Golden Oriole makes this a cakewalk, since you don't suffer poison damage, you even get healed by the gas.

Without this "trick" I wouldn't have managed to beat them either, since it's fucking hard else.

^This. I wiped out about half of them that way. Superior Golden Oriole, and then when they were all in the gas area, set fire to it.
Not everyone would have the Golden Oriole, but I think that the developers intended you to make use of the gas.

 

[whitewoof]

I effing love fighting huge waves of human enemies in W3. Tip when fighting human mobs, always carry Northern Wind. Tawny oil and Blizzard are extremely handy, the slowmo effect you get after each kill with Blizzard on top of everyone being frozen with Northern Wind is the ultimate game changer. Honestly, found this drug cartel battle way easier on DM NG+, probably because unlike my NG game, I had Deadly Precision. Those random one hit kills are orgasmic. Also, I find that when you're being overwhelmed by human mobs (which is quite often in HoS), Axii Mind Control can be your biggest friend. Not sure if it's a bug, but in my last DM NG+ playthrough, I found many mind controlled enemies being able to one hit kill many of their allies on top of distracting them from attacking you