Anybody else disappointed with netrunning/cyberspace/hacking?

[Niatka]

Well, they were able to make hacking a boring minigame that you will get sick of playing after that thousandth time of doing it and turned the cool concept of cyberspace into a some weird puke filled acid trip that seems to have nothing to do with actual hacking and plays more like a bad dream sequence. I remember when a dev said cyberspace will be COOL. uh? Where is it? Also, you do not even get to be a netrunner or experience cyberspace outside of a couple of very brief sequences on the main missions. I feel they originally planned for you to netrunning in the early days based off some video of you seeing a netrunner rig that I assume was a rig for V to use, but like a lot of things it got scraped for a very generic hack mini game. Personally I think they need to scrape their version of cyberspace and just copy shadowrun cyberspace which is a mini tron like world where the character is like a wizard or summoner that uses programs like spells to get to nodes to hack. It would have been way more fun and interesting than what we had. Could have had quick hacks for what we have or deep hacks to get into more complex networks and gain more control/access/info. Cyberspace could have been a cool mini world where you could find random networks and data fortresses, but there are dangerous A.I.s, programs and other netrunners around you have to watch out for or make contact with.

in a way, I agree with you. but this "Hacking" mode, obviously laughable, however it amuses me.
Hacking amuses me all the more when as it is used against echo (enemies). to see an echo band burning like candles; it's cool.
the "cyberspace" YES; it should have been better designed. I quote you; {Cyberspace could have been a cool mini world where you could find random networks and data fortresses} => absolutely agree.

 

[Scooby-Doo_70287]

I play on very hard difficulty and i like hacking the way it is right now at most of the game.

So please don't change anything.
If peoples expectations are "too high" it's not the fault of the devs.

 

[Sergiodrg]

I think we have two aspects:

• Overall Hacking: fast hacks and almost the entire game. It's the 8º marvel of the world? Obvioulsy no; It's crap? No, neither. I had fun fooling around thugs hacking machines and the like. The Hex mini-game after making thousand, yes, become a bit boring. Now, ending the game, I have suicide, reset, detonate grenade and cyberpsicosis... they are devastating and very fun to play. With more minigames, and enemy netrunners more variated (something more than over heating...) the game would be excellent in my opinion.
• Netrunning: I consider that netrunning can't be an option walking through the city. "Oh, I'm going to hack in the NCPD for fun, just I lay on the ground unconscious, plug myself and lest's go". I have found a good number of netrunners dead exploring the city (dead for fried brain or just discovered and shooted in the head). So netrunning has to go with the main history. And could be something like BrainDances. That would be a must and would make the game incredible.

Summary: the game starts from a good base that I believe can be improved. Hacking is one example. But people continue with the chip to see everything in negative: "this is crap... I don't like... I'm dissapointed...". Hacking can be improved but the starting point and what we have now is not garbage.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Gameplay options, I guess... and because it has to be in there, it's a cyberpunk game.

What get's me the most, aside what a cheap gimmick hacking basically is: To make full usage of this "magic" system, all you really need is money. Best deck, best quickhacks, you are golden... high intelligence? You only need that for a couple of speech checks and to access terminals. Hacking perks? Yea, most of them only give you minor bonuses, some of which you also can get from cyberware...

...compared to this, the tech stat and perks are almost mandatory to make effective use of the item upgrading and crafting systems. I call that: Poor game design.

Bottom line: Not only is V's story pretty linear, they are also basically class locked to being a Solo... they might be able to call themselves a "netrunner" in conversations, but they really aren't.

intelligence Stat does a whole lot for netrunning.
4% ram total per point
.5% damage
1% increase duration of effects

but more importantly intelligence effects perks
and perks are HUGE

legendary quickhacks btw, craftable with level 20
quickhacks can crit (huge)
quickhacks can spread (huge)
reduce quickhack cost, huge for legendary quickhacks
25% cooldowns, and cooldown interactions
numerous breach protocol stuff.

there is no way you can compare an int 9 netrunner with an int 20 with a good build.

 

[Scooby-Doo_70287]

I think we have two aspects:

• Overall Hacking: fast hacks and almost the entire game. It's the 8º marvel of the world? Obvioulsy no; It's crap? No, neither. I had fun fooling around thugs hacking machines and the like. The Hex mini-game after making thousand, yes, become a bit boring. Now, ending the game, I have suicide, reset, detonate grenade and cyberpsicosis... they are devastating and very fun to play. With more minigames, and enemy netrunners more variated (something more than over heating...) the game would be excellent in my opinion.
• Netrunning: I consider that netrunning can't be an option walking through the city. "Oh, I'm going to hack in the NCPD for fun, just I lay on the ground unconscious, plug myself and lest's go". I have found a good number of netrunners dead exploring the city (dead for fried brain or just discovered and shooted in the head). So netrunning has to go with the main history. And could be something like BrainDances. That would be a must and would make the game incredible.

Summary: the game starts from a good base that I believe can be improved. Hacking is one example. But people continue with the chip to see everything in negative: "this is crap... I don't like... I'm dissapointed...". Hacking can be improved but the starting point and what we have now is not garbage.

Absolutely my opinion, too. Thank you!

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

Hacking and Netrunning are basically two different things. In the game we only get to hack, and not Netrun. Nutrunning involves jacking in and getting a virtual world representation of data structures, which "mostly" correspond to their physical locations but there might be differences.

When Netrunning, defensive programs are represented in various ways. Watchdogs, Samurai warriors, cyclones, whatever the program designer wants. A netrunner "fights" these programs using intrusion programs (which are also represented visually as lighting, a chainsaw, whatever) to defeat them and gain access to the data they are defending.

That data could be files of information, software programs, even virtual realities that are as real and convincing as real life. That is the Cyberpunk game lore that we didn't get.

That is what is missing from the game that is a huge part of the Cyberpunk RPG games and the Cyberpunk genre in general going back to William Gibson's novels. We get a few moments with it with Brigitte and in other spots, but we don't get to DO anything there except to talk. It seems a useless thing, we could have talked to alt through a keyboard text terminal.

And the look of Cyberspace in the game. It looks like what I'd imagine it looks like to the worst, lowest end cyberdeck you could buy. It should appear real to higher-end decks, not a bunch of little dots in the vague shape of...something.

Very disappointing.

 

[Scooby-Doo_70287]

The "Hacking" and the "Cyberspace / Deep Web / Blackwall" are two completely different things as Sergiodrg has very well explained.

I really like the perks and how they benefit from each other (synergy). I even do like the mini-game, too.

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

Hacking and Netrunning are basically two different things. In the game we only get to hack, and not Netrun. Nutrunning involves jacking in and getting a virtual world representation of data structures, which "mostly" correspond to their physical locations but there might be differences.

When Netrunning, defensive programs are represented in various ways. Watchdogs, Samurai warriors, cyclones, whatever the program designer wants. A netrunner "fights" these programs using intrusion programs (which are also represented visually as lighting, a chainsaw, whatever) to defeat them and gain access to the data they are defending.

That data could be files of information, software programs, even virtual realities that are as real and convincing as real life. That is the Cyberpunk game lore that we didn't get.

That is what is missing from the game that is a huge part of the Cyberpunk RPG games and the Cyberpunk genre in general going back to William Gibson's novels. We get a few moments with it with Brigitte and in other spots, but we don't get to DO anything there except to talk. It seems a useless thing, we could have talked to alt through a keyboard text terminal.

And the look of Cyberspace in the game. It looks like what I'd imagine it looks like to the worst, lowest end cyberdeck you could buy. It should appear real to higher-end decks, not a bunch of little dots in the vague shape of...something.

Very disappointing.

Ya, going into or rather diving into the Cyberspace is missing. But hey, it's such a stunning fully world. I am not missing that much cause the game narrative is that excellent. From game view its very dangerous to go into the cyberspace directly, so in my opinion THAT'S a very good reason NOT to do For me it's good comprehensible.

 

[CS554]

Ya, going into or rather diving into the Cyberspace is missing. But hey, it's such a stunning fully world. I am not missing that much cause the game narrative is that excellent. From game view its very dangerous to go into the cyberspace directly, so in my opinion THAT'S a very good reason NOT to do For me it's good comprehensible.

I went to look for some info from tabletop game to sketch up an idea. General problem with netrunning in game like this IMO is that it would either force players to create netrunner build or miss that chunk of content.

 

[feckyer1ife]

The hacking is generic like watch dogs, but don't really see how they can change it up. maybe required breaching before hacking or a different type of mini hack? But with all the quick hack options i just dont really see how else they can spice it up.

 

[MaxPrimal]

In this regard I can completely agree. The cyberworld in Anarchy Online and Neocron where even more engaging than this.

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

 

[GHOSTMD]

Well i quite had fun, hacking and quickhacking through my playthroughs...
Regarding the Cyberspace, yes i would ve liked to "SURF" it but as part of the story
it was kinda cool as well. But as we know, it misses out due the cuts that where made.

However IMO the hacking part it one of the good points of the game. If a rework rly
might happen, perhaps there is a chance we get a "cyberspace" world we can netrun through.

But other aspects of the game need that rework more urgend than this mechanic.
Aka filling Night City with fun stuff to do for example. UI and KB/M integration.

After that got reworked, i think the hacking could get an cyberspace run as well, so it
is even more fun.

 

[kosinva]

I went to look for some info from tabletop game to sketch up an idea. General problem with netrunning in game like this IMO is that it would either force players to create netrunner build or miss that chunk of content.

I don’t understand why this would be such a bad thing, at least it would enhance the replay experience by that we can solve the missions with radically different solutions with completely different character builds.

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

I went to look for some info from tabletop game to sketch up an idea. General problem with netrunning in game like this IMO is that it would either force players to create netrunner build or miss that chunk of content.

In other words, create compelling reasons for multiple playthroughs!

 

[CS554]

I don’t understand why this would be such a bad thing, at least it would enhance the replay experience by that we can solve the missions with radically different solutions with completely different character builds.

In terms of radically different, I'm not so sure about it. What I know about tabletop we would employ different set of software but combat would be like quickhaking out of net only with Tron graphics.

In other words, create compelling reasons for multiple playthroughs!

You picture it like that, I picture it like lot's of topics and posts here people complaining how they are locked out of content.

 

[Fuse_00]

I wish it was back like they showed it during all those trailers that you actually have to sneak up on enemy and plug the wire into them or plug it into dead buddy, not just scan them from afar and here you go

Yes, indeed. The hacking in this game is way to similar to magic. You just killing everyone remotely without any troubles like a god of death. With some cheap equipment you bought from ghetto's trash seller. On the other hand, top skilled Arasaka netrunners are just a babies compared to you and the worst thing they can do is overheat you. No suicide/cyberpsychosis can be applied on V.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I don’t understand why this would be such a bad thing, at least it would enhance the replay experience by that we can solve the missions with radically different solutions with completely different character builds.

the solutions are the same, but you'd have to work harder to do it. Before you could interact with something, you first have to hack the subnet. If its like cyberpunk red, hacking would be like going down a hall/elevator with stuff popping up you could either run from or fight, sometimes you would find control nodes(or otherthings), allowing you to effect things in the real world.

So for meatspace combat its pretty bad. Netrunning is made to be part of a team, and generally not that effecient at direct combat.

So they remixed it a bit to work better for being alone, and the type of encounters you often face.

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

Yes, indeed. The hacking in this game is way to similar to magic. You just killing everyone remotely without any troubles like a god of death. With some cheap equipment you bought from ghetto's trash seller. On the other hand, top skilled Arasaka netrunners are just a babies compared to you and the worst thing they can do is overheat you. No suicide/cyberpsychosis can be applied on V.

enemy netrunners are gimped, but thats probably because a good netrunner would destroy most players. A guy killing you, that you can't find.

I do agree though, their last second changes probably made hacking more doable, but its pretty unbalanced how easily you can do certain things. That said, every hacker would probably need a monowire, for when there's no access points. Overall, though its a lil too easy, its not that bad as semi magic system.

 

[KinserClipper]

We were shown a world where you could stealth take someone down and physically jack into them. Where you could access networks that linked to multiple squads of opponents and infiltrate those networks.

Netrunning is described in the game as this intense virtual experience.

This idea of what separates cyberspace and meatspace and if cyberspace can be more real, then what is real is one of the profound questions of the genre.

In the end they had to have something more practical. Its just so dumbed down it seems suprising that they bothered to hype it at all.

We thought that this game was done a year ago, had been in intense development for 5 or 6 years and was getting another year of tight polishing.

We thought that because they told us that. They lied to everyone, their customers, their investors. So we imagined all of the things such a game would make possible, because we did not expect the deception.

It turns out that it was in development hell most of the time and had 1.5 years of crunch development. In that case yeah its impressive it has anything at all. Yeah you spend that kind of time on a game of that scope and what you get is a cookie cutter sudoku game for hacking.

It was poorly managed and its very disappointing. Make whatever comparisons with hacking you want, they fumbled it.

What's crazy is that over 25 years ago, a Shadowrun game came out for the Sega Genesis that had a complete Cyberspace element built into the game. You could do cyberspace runs on your own to hack data stores for data to sell, or do them as part of jobs given by fixers. It was a whole different game with separate skills, cyberware, a deck and software that you used to battle ICE. They were able to pull that off 25 years ago and here we are stuck with nothing. The quick hacking is fine and adds another element to both stealth and fighting but runs into Cyberspace should have been its own complete

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

I went to look for some info from tabletop game to sketch up an idea. General problem with netrunning in game like this IMO is that it would either force players to create netrunner build or miss that chunk of content.

Yes! Netrunning works if you can actually have companions. In the Shadowrun games(Going back to the 90's Genesis game) you could go complete Netrunner/Cyberjockey/Decker because you could recruit muscle to handle the more physical jobs. It may not work in this game, where you're basically solo all the time. A Netrunner needs someone to cover their back.

 

[Raptorousrex]

Its annoying that relatively soon NPC Netrunner cease to be a even minor threat, while even low level enemy may have weapon that domes you first hit! I havent seen NPC Netrunners to use anything else than ping your location or overheat.

 

[_Fender_]

Yeah, enemy netrunners should be able to not only overheat you but blind you, block your cyberware, slow you down etc. For now its really not a thread.

Hacking would be more enjoyable if we had couple of variations instead of the same system all the time.

 

[Don_the_brawler]

I would love to see cyberspace expanded upon. Travel to cyberspace and zero your fellow netrunner while sitting in your chair. Zero other targets. There are all sorts of things they can do.

I've had tons of fun. I got a lvl 36 character with 16 intelligence netrunner/techie. He already has two legendary quickhacks courtesy of datamines. I think they came from datamines? I looked at all my quickhacks inventory and noticed I had two legendary quickhacks. I got legendary system reset, and ping. I don't know where I got them, but I always do those datamines so I probably got them from there... Funny.

I've had tons of fun playing a netrunner in cyberpunk. Sneaky sneaky double damage with my epic short circuit, contagion, overheat, and the occasional synapse burnout when I'm feeling especially nasty. Can't wait till I lvl him up to 20 and actually make legendary quickhacks or possibly get a few more before reaching 20...