Anyone else not liking the graphic executions? [GIF warning]

[arkblazer]

Ahem, actually the argument is very solid because although a fantasy world HAS fantastic elements the rest of it is usually realistic and all the same rules of physics apply to the inhabitants. They walk, eat and shit like real people. There is just something on top of that in Sapkowski's world. Don't mistake realism with reality. Realism here is meant as realism in the limitations and rules that apply to this very fantasy world.

You have certainly a right to act against physics if you want to do so on purpose for whatever reasons you might have though. That's a whole different story.

But the criticism sticks and is still valid that you indeed act against the lore and the physics and rules that apply to the Witcher world (and therefore against "realism"). You're even actually aware of that some people will hate that (like me) so it seems that you know the difference between realism in fantasy worlds and creative freedom very well.


@jantherocker
Yeah, let's just fuck all rules and phyics and whatever. Why sticking to everything that makes this world lifelike and immersive if there is just something that isn't there in our own world...

You guys argue like one deviation from reality means complete anarchy. It really doesn't. You argue against the very foundation of fantastic elemements in every medium here and there is no ground for such an argument.

well it is part of their artistic vision . remeber their witchers anumated shorts from W2? the decapitation was greatly exagerated in them as well. if you need for lore reason. we have to remember that geralt is mutantwho could decapitate armored enemies in the book.

 

[Vigilance.492]

Something to note about the finishers in IGN's latest Signs footage. At around 0:55 until the end, there seem to be two of them. They're mid-combat, not just at its end, and aren't slow-motion. Probably because they're not at the end. Its nice having that variety. I enjoyed it. Shifting between slow-motion occasionally for the cool factor when you're at the end of combat and just regular-speed finishers while the action is still going on makes it nicer. We get both.

Noticed this too, Geralt didn't go into a slo-mo kill once and performed similar finishers (And one was at the very end of combat, that very final kill of the video).

So there's a couple of possibilities here IMO:

1. As you said, it all comes down to variety. Sometimes slo-mo will activate, sometimes it won't, and there should be a reasonable balance.

2. Toggling finishers off doesn't turn off the actual finishing blows (Aka the Gore/Dismemberment), it just turns off the SLO-MO and forced ("cinematic") camera movement.

Either way, it's a very positive thing.

 

[EliHarel]

Noticed this too, Geralt didn't go into a slo-mo kill once and performed similar finishers (And one was at the very end of combat, that very final kill of the video).

I think there was one other guy, which could be why it wasn't in slow motion (since the battle was still going on)

01:06, he has an arrow shot at him and he doesn't kill that archer before the decapitation finisher.

Eh, dunno. We're in ultra analysis mode at this point. I should go do something useful, like waxing my nipples.

 

[Vigilance.492]

I think there was one other guy, which could be why it wasn't in slow motion (since the battle was still going on)

01:06, he has an arrow shot at him and he doesn't kill that archer before the decapitation finisher.

Eh, dunno. We're in ultra analysis mode at this point. I should go do something useful, like waxing my nipples.

Actually you're right, didn't notice due to the completely spastic editing and crappy quality of the video, but I can just make him out off in the distance there.

Oh well, guess both points might be completely invalid then. We're definitely in crazy mode right now, I should probably just take a few breathers before posting (or not bother at all)

 

[Scholdarr.452]

well it is part of their artistic vision . remeber their witchers anumated shorts from W2? the decapitation was greatly exagerated in them as well. if you need for lore reason. we have to remember that geralt is mutantwho could decapitate armored enemies in the book.

Geralt decapitated armored enemies in the book (I mean armored at the neck/head of course). Sorry, but I don't think so.

Being a mutant makes Geralt faster than any normal human being. And it gives him improved vision. But it doesn't negate the rules of physics. Geralt's fighting style in the books is as brutal as it is effective. He kills monster and people alike as fast as possible which means he attacks vital parts of the body that causes heavy wounds and a lot of blood loss. But it's still just "normal wounds", performed by a "normal" sword, according to the "normal" rules of physics.

The flying head and stuff of that kind is "only" based on artistic freedom, not more and not less. CDPR wants brutal and over-the-top executions for the eye-candy alone. There is no lore to back that up.

 

[Lieste]

He does "cut through maille as if it were cloth" at least twice.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

He does "cut through maille as if it were cloth" at least twice.

Source? I'd really like to know.

 

[jon7882]

I can't immerse myself into a game. The game has to drag me in, convince me that I'm not myself anymore sitting in front of a monitor but being in the game. The problem is that the brain doesn't stop working when you're immersed into a game. And the problem is that I know very well how physics work. I don't forget that just because I'm playing a game. When I see such things it breaks my immersion because it's simply an inconsistency with the rest of the world. And in the end, a convincing illusion - and immersion is nothing else - is ALL about the perfect consistency. Every little detail can break the spell.

Maybe some people are not interested in physics, maybe some don't know much about it, maybe some just don't care, that's all very right. They probably won't have a problem with it. But that doesn't defy the argument that it is an inconsistency in the game world and if you're sensible to it, it surely is potent to break your immersion and even makes you angry about it because it feels unnecessarily "gamey". This is not just the case with this violation of proper physics here, that applies to a huge array of details that are probably not truly consistent with each other and all people react differently to some of them, based on their expectations, knowledge, experiences and priorities. That's the reason why one of the very core design goals of any narrative/world-driven video game and especially RPGs is create a preferably consisten world in which everything works to a certain predefined set of rules which doesn't necessarily have to consist of real world rules but often it greatly does because that gives the creator the possibility to just bring it up without further explanation - in that case people just expect certain things happen in a certain way like that the rules of gravity work and things fall actually to the ground when you let them lose. In that case the creators only have to explain the stuff that is NOT in accordance with the real world, the oddities, often narrative stuff and fantastical elements like magic which work on top of the basic rules in which the world is set. It's this narrative consistency that enables any immersion in the first place. It's this consistency that makes a game a real "Gesamtkunstwerk" instead of just being a theme park of different elements that work perfectly, but just on their own.

i do understand why CDPR decided to do over-the-top gore-porn effects that are simply there for eye-candy. I just don't think it's a good or wise decision from a design point of view. It prioritizes a minor "childish" enjoyment over a basic design principle and that's something I don't support or like, not here in this case and not elsewhere.

---------- Updated at 09:17 PM ----------


I wasn't aware that this is a popularity contest.

So the game is actually made by the community here, each part or feature decided by majority vote? Cool...

Why even discussing a topic when we could just vote on something. To hell with arguments...

Ok first off if this is how you judge everything I'm not sure how you can enjoy much. For example I do know a bit about Physics and I still go to see movies like say Star Trek, Star Wars, Independence Day, Stargate etc that have many errors on physics but I watch them for the enjoyment not scientific accuracy.
Same with games. You obviously have extremely high expectations for media. First off this is a fantasy world and it could have different scientific rules. Second what has been shown is fairly accurate about what happens when flesh and bone meet sharp steel. Are the physics as to how the head fly's a little off? Maybe. But that is not the point of the game. The point is to be as realistic a world as possible and not sacrifice the enjoyment and I would hardly call this "gore porn."

 

[Euskalduna]

I think there was one other guy, which could be why it wasn't in slow motion (since the battle was still going on)

01:06, he has an arrow shot at him and he doesn't kill that archer before the decapitation finisher.

Eh, dunno. We're in ultra analysis mode at this point. I should go do something useful, like waxing my nipples.

This is a video preview?? Ign could show something new this week ?

Thanks

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Ok first off if this is how you judge everything I'm not sure how you can enjoy much. For example I do know a bit about Physics and I still go to see movies like say Star Trek, Star Wars, Independence Day, Stargate etc that have many errors on physics but I watch them for the enjoyment not scientific accuracy.
Same with games. You obviously have extremely high expectations for media. First off this is a fantasy world and it could have different scientific rules. Second what has been shown is fairly accurate about what happens when flesh and bone meet sharp steel. Are the physics as to how the head fly's a little off? Maybe. But that is not the point of the game. The point is to be as realistic a world as possible and not sacrifice the enjoyment and I would hardly call this "gore porn."

Of course much of this is subjective. I can enjoy a lot of things to be honest. Problem is there are some things that are in my point of view just avoidable or "done for the wrong reasons". And these points irk me because I KNOW them. There is a good saying about something like that: what is seen cannot be unseen. It's the same with this kind of over the top stuff. You don't care much as long as you don't think about it (much) or if you even enjoy it although you know that it's over the top (or maybe you enjoy it because it is that way). Maybe some people can just ignore that, I hardy can. Just bad for me I guess...

And please, not again "it's a fantasy world, rules could be different". I've said much about that already. It's not a really solid argument after all.

 

[arkblazer]

I think the mutations also gave geralt greater strength.

Source? I'd really like to know.

The books. baptism of fire. When he is travelling with zoltan and the rest of the gang they stumbled on some armored bandits raiding a farm. He decapitated them while they were armored if i remember correctly.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

The books. baptism of fire. When he is travelling with zoltan and the rest of the gang they stumbled on some armored bandits raiding farm. he decapitated them while they were armored if i remember correctly.

Thanks. I'll try to find the exact position myself...

Edit: Found it. But there isn't a single line telling that Geralt hit and killed through maille armor. Only the first soldier is described wearing (badly patched) maille armor but he is killed by Milva's arrow. The other guys who are killed by Geralt aren't described in detail, and neither it's described that Geralt hit somebody at a protected part of the body with Zoltan's dwarven Sihill (which is after all, a special weapon as well, as a one-in-ten thousands sword).

 

[Lieste]

Page 337 of Blood of Elves. "cut through their Hauberks** as though they were made from wool".

** a maille shirt, almost always worn over a gambeson.

 

[jon7882]

Of course much of this is subjective. I can enjoy a lot of things to be honest. Problem is there are some things that are in my point of view just avoidable or "done for the wrong reasons". And these points irk me because I KNOW them. There is a good saying about something like that: what is seen cannot be unseen. It's the same with this kind of over the top stuff. You don't care much as long as you don't think about it (much) or if you even enjoy it although you know that it's over the top (or maybe you enjoy it because it is that way). Maybe some people can just ignore that, I hardy can. Just bad for me I guess...

And please, not again "it's a fantasy world, rules could be different". I've said much about that already. It's not a really solid argument after all.

I had to rewatch the gameplay vid to just see it again and yeah it is a bit off physics wise but as others have said geralt has extra strength do to the mutations and that "what is seen cannot be unseen" is a bit much here. But I'll just accept that you have different standards than I.

---------- Updated at 04:21 AM ----------

Ok anyone not liking the "gore" this game is far from gore porn. I just looked at the brutalities and fatalities to the new MK game. That is Gore Porn and is so bad it actually made me sick to my stomach.

 

[minicrom]

I don't see why Head could not fly with a high speed sword attacks, It's not realistic yes but it bother no one in Princess Monoke. I like it this way. I think it adds to the violence and make us have some distance at the same time. Pretty cool.

 

[EliHarel]

Geralt decapitated armored enemies in the book (I mean armored at the neck/head of course). Sorry, but I don't think so.

Being a mutant makes Geralt faster than any normal human being. And it gives him improved vision. But it doesn't negate the rules of physics. Geralt's fighting style in the books is as brutal as it is effective. He kills monster and people alike as fast as possible which means he attacks vital parts of the body that causes heavy wounds and a lot of blood loss. But it's still just "normal wounds", performed by a "normal" sword, according to the "normal" rules of physics.

The flying head and stuff of that kind is "only" based on artistic freedom, not more and not less. CDPR wants brutal and over-the-top executions for the eye-candy alone. There is no lore to back that up.

I think there were over-the-top executions in the books too.

One of them, who had his trousers around his knees since he hadn't even had time to pull them up, was slashed in the carotid artery and tumbled onto his back, comically swinging his still unsatisfied manhood. The second, nothing but a stripling, covered his head with both hands, which the sihil severed at the wrists.

The next moment he was on the bridge and slashed off one of the Killmouli's wrists with a blow.

If those two were softcore executions, then we have these two,

Geralt pushed it back with a sharp blow of his sword pommel, and made a strike at close range that separated half of its skull. Even without that half, this strange creature not recorded in the witcher books snapped at him with its teeth for another dozen seconds.

Then it died with a horrible, almost human sigh.

I have no knowledge about bone density, and monster bone density at that, but to me cutting half a skull seems much more extreme than cutting through a human neck.

With an overhead blow, the witcher split the next Nilfgaardian from sternum to the waist. He jerked his head and hurled the blood off his eyebrows and eyelashes. "Schirru! Where are you, you bastard?"

A blow. A scream. Warm droplets on his face.

This is almost completely in line with the cutting-in-half executions we've seen. Not that I like them too much, especially with how they're done, but it's not CDPR deviating from the books too much.

I don't think it matters too much how thick are the monster bones or if that Nilfaardian wore armor or not, or if that half-skull of the creature flew in the air or rolled to the ground. The spirit is the same to me and according to Sapkowski (which, again, in the case of cutting in half - it's not always a spirit I prefer).

Page 337 of Blood of Elves. "cut through their Hauberks** as though they were made from wool".

** a maille shirt, almost always worn over a gambeson.

Baptism of Fire, you mean? That was the battle for the bridge. Unless there's a similar section in BoE I didn't check.

 

[shawn_kh]

Put a sharp double handed sword in the hands of a mutant with super human strength and reflexes whom has been wielding them for at least 8 decades, and I expect heads and limbs to be flying around and people getting cut in half.

 

[ONLY_ONCE]

Yep, it's bound to happen

 

[Agent_Bleu]

Something to note about the finishers in IGN's latest Signs footage. At around 0:55 until the end, there seem to be two of them. They're mid-combat, not just at its end, and aren't slow-motion. Probably because they're not at the end. Its nice having that variety. I enjoyed it. Shifting between slow-motion occasionally for the cool factor when you're at the end of combat and just regular-speed finishers while the action is still going on makes it nicer. We get both.

@Agent Bleu

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/04/13/slaughtering-with-signs-the-magic-of-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-ign-first

Or maybe I just misunderstood the moves and the mechanics-conditions.

Thanks.
I think you have made a very robust case for a gore-oriented canonical Geralt. Since I haven't read the books, I unhesitatingly take your word for it (as a sidenote, judging from the quotes, that inclination seems more pronounced in print than in the games).

To reiterate my position, I have no problem with regular speed finishers, provided they aren't too frequent. I do have a problem with bullet time since, even if as you point out, they aim to reward the player, in my opinion they inadvertently but surely end up tainting the experience of what it is to fight as Geralt. You and I could go back and forth about how in those slo mo finishers killing emerges more as means or more as an end to itself and about the relationship between form and content.

Finishers can be turned off altogether, so I'll be able to purge my playthroughs, if such drastic measure turns out to be required. I rest my case.

 

[EliHarel]

Yeah, seeing finishing moves in real time instead of slow motion, I get the appeal. I found it very cool to witness them as just a regular part of the combat instead of a special event with the focus on it. I believe I'll like that shift from one to the other throughout the game. I enjoy the balance.