Are we over-hyping the game?

[Erect_Cactus]

I thought Witcher 3 would've worked better without the big world where you didn't really have much to do outside quests. Things there you could only look at felt out of proportion in relation to what all you could do there. So much empty traveling, so little interactivity or interest. It was nice to see people taking shelter from rain (that was in Witcher 1 already) and all that, but what of it? What could you make out of it? Nothing. Same goes for scheduled NPC's now. Who's going to notice or pay attention when there's nothing to do with that?

If CP2077 is a game of the same line of design, if it is so heavily focused on storytelling, I think it'd work better if it was composed similiarly to Deus Ex. With smaller and more intricate hubs instead of a freely traveled open world that has very little to offer. But also with freedom to access those hubs at will.

The advertised "living open world" shouldn't be just a visual distraction, that's a waste of time for everyone even if it looked nice on the outset.

I feel EXACTLY the same way. Trying to sit on two chairs usually results in you falling on your butt.

GTA is just a drive and shoot game. It's open world means nothing, because it doesn't reward even basic exploration. Unlike WItcher 3, for example. Giant race track.

I beg to differ. In TW3 exploration leads to copy-pasted hidden caches, monster dens, Witcher gear sets, generic little subquests that “reward” you with gear several levels worse than the one you already have and that’s it. To me that’s the definition of shallow.

Can you please link me to the 2018 version? I don't think I've heard it

Watch the 2018 Gamescom gameplay video. It’s on when V is inside her apartment and also at the end when her and Jackie are driving away from the Maelstrom’s hideout.

 

[lelxrv]

I beg to differ. In TW3 exploration leads to copy-pasted hidden caches, monster dens, Witcher gear sets, generic little subquests that “reward” you with gear several levels worse than the one you already have and that’s it. To me that’s the definition of shallow.

I don't remember much generic quests. Nearly all quests were interesting. And they were rarely about equipment. Large map gives the world space and while interactivity is limited, it gives quests expanded sets. You can do hunts where you can try your builds, you scavenge for xp, alchemy and crafting... You aren't locked to a small town or a village where you should turn over every last bucket. Leave and roam in any direction and you will find something there. Be it some stash with junk, a band of bandits, beasts or another place where you can get a job.

They did more confined spaces with W1 and W2, it was great. But with W3 they went bigger. Not everything worked, but majority did, hence I spent 600 highly enjoyable hours in it.

 

[Paffcioo]

I suppose all the hype came from the possibilities. I was hoping for an RPG where I could do whatever I wanted to in Night City (within reason). It's starting to seem like, either we're rushing them to finish the game or they've decided story takes place over freedom of gameplay.

This is CDPR we're talking about. Story will always be more important than gameplay.
Besides, look at Witcher 3. There'll be plenty side quests to do.
In Witcher 3 main story takes like around 50 hours where side quests take another 50? Something like that.
When I played Witcher 3 for beautiful 100% I spent 140 hours in this beautiful world.
You wanted an RPG where you could do whatever you want.
Don't know from where these hopes came but I'm sure you'll have plenty to do. Besides, after game releases, we will get free updates, free dlcs & at least 2 big expansions.
In Witcher 3 you could own your flat and upgrade it. But it came in second expansion called Blood & Wine.
So keep your hopes up. If we don't get it in final game, there's high chance we will get something in dlc, update or expansion. Chances are higher now because people started complaining.
Be optimistic. It's CDPR after all. If we don't believe in them. Who we could believe in more in this industry.

 

[Bloodartist]

Goddamnit. One more negative piece of news from 2019... I vastly prefer the 2018 version. In fact the music played a big part of me getting excited about the game back then. 2019 has been almost opposite, where I have to convince myself logically that I still love the game. A game like this needs its share of nostalgy. Heading towards the good old "set music volume to 0 and listen to my own music" situation again.

I beg to differ. In TW3 exploration leads to copy-pasted hidden caches, monster dens, Witcher gear sets, generic little subquests that “reward” you with gear several levels worse than the one you already have and that’s it. To me that’s the definition of shallow.

To me it is not. The reason those rewards felt shallow to you is the level system, which I have been complaining about a lot in other threads every chance I get. Character level system only adds negative elements to the game, yet it has become the accepted norm in the game industry which is all kinds of insane.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

This is CDPR we're talking about. Story will always be more important than gameplay.

Actually what surprise me is that in C2077 gameplay takes priority over background.

 

[Johnysh]

We sure are. I’d set the expectations low especially now that stuff gets removed/changed left and right.
Some examples are:
1) 2018 version of “Chippin’ In” - we can kiss that goodbye. View attachment 11004514
View attachment 11004517
2) Humanity cost for cyberware is also gone and replaced with slots.

http://imgur.com/b7zmVbw

3) Stuff like different apartments I don’t care much about but nonetheless it’s gone.
4) 3 background subcategories each containing 3 options is now reduced to just 3 backgrounds overall (nomad, street rat, corpo).

 

[Bloodartist]

The slot system is probably more elegant solution gameplaywise than humanity costs (Can't expect your players these days to perform arithmetics, after all. Most can barely read.). I think I would've preferred it though.

Change into slot system brings with it a number of negatives:

1. I am now extremely worried about how much cybernetics I can stuff into me, and whether that will be enough. I want to go as cyber as possible. The concept of slots automatically brings forth a max limit. We've heard about all kinds of augments via the journalist reports...but if you can only use few at a time then its a letdown. I felt even shadowrun's decent slot system (with humanity costs, mind you) was insufficient and kinda boring. So slots may introduce width, at the expense of depth.

2. Removing humanity costs also implies possible negative effects of having too much cybernetics being removed.(Admittedly it was never claimed there were any. ) The cyberpunk world was supposed to have a dismal view on transhumanism.... that the thing intended to save you would only make you worse. That you traded one dependancy to another, and so on. This sounds that things are getting simplified for the masses again. Hey, you can do all of this to yourself and it doesn't matter at all. It's possible that I am wrong but I'm just working with the info I got.

 

[Gabriel_McKing]

probably,(most hambuger never look like the one on the picture) but with mod and cheat this can make it hold till the next dlc or next game

 

[Wixbit]

Can you please link me to the 2018 version? I don't think I've heard it

It plays during the e3 demo in V's apartment

 

[BabalKabak]

The slot system is probably more elegant solution gameplaywise than humanity costs (Can't expect your players these days to perform arithmetics, after all. Most can barely read.). I think I would've preferred it though.

Change into slot system brings with it a number of negatives:

1. I am now extremely worried about how much cybernetics I can stuff into me, and whether that will be enough. I want to go as cyber as possible. The concept of slots automatically brings forth a max limit. We've heard about all kinds of augments via the journalist reports...but if you can only use few at a time then its a letdown. I felt even shadowrun's decent slot system (with humanity costs, mind you) was insufficient and kinda boring. So slots may introduce width, at the expense of depth.

2. Removing humanity costs also implies possible negative effects of having too much cybernetics being removed.(Admittedly it was never claimed there were any. ) The cyberpunk world was supposed to have a dismal view on transhumanism.... that the thing intended to save you would only make you worse. That you traded one dependancy to another, and so on. This sounds that things are getting simplified for the masses again. Hey, you can do all of this to yourself and it doesn't matter at all. It's possible that I am wrong but I'm just working with the info I got.

In my head, I was thinking of a fun way to make Humanity Cost important. Like you said, if you constantly modify your body with augmentations, then it should leave a trace.

I wished it goes like this : let's say the augmentation list (body) is a bottomless pit, so we don't care about the limitations (as long as each augs are compatible together). You are a fresh human with 100 Hmpts (Humanity points), and through the early game you see the first augmentations and they're cheap (because it kinda goes like this on every RPG), let's say from 2 to 8 Hmpts. So you get augmented for a total of 20 Hmpts. But few gameplay hours later, you'll upgrade those augmented parts, so you change these augs for better ones (total 30 Hmpts maybe).

BUT

Each time you wanna remove an installed augmentation, it would cost Hmpts too (in the majority of cases). So one augs that cost 3 pts would also cost 1 pt for removal (you regain 2 pts), or replacement (give back 2, minus the new augs cost). One that cost 30 (kinda heavy one, might be a spinal or brain part) would cost 10 if removed. So each time you play with your fleshed body, your total of Hmpts would drop and it would (IMO) make sense for the roleplay, because a living body in general doesn't like much being sliced and mixed with alien parts, then, if you remove them completely it also means that the missing parts of your body would be replaced with something that isn't your body neither. May be "generic" flesh or IDK what to call it, but any way, not YOUR biological body.

EDIT : I know this is unlikely to go this way, but I just wanted to share.

 

[NextGen1987]

Short answer yes, long answer.. I started to think the same when they said we can only have one apartment with no customization, also they changed they're mind about censoring the game it seems, I wonder how much the game will change in next year, I mean they changed many things between E3 2018 and E3 2019 (some changes are great others not so much).

I still think the game will be good, but maybe less RPG that some of us wished it would be, and probably this is why they changed it to ''story driver action adventure'' when before it was RPG with action adventure elements.

 

[Erect_Cactus]

The slot system is probably more elegant solution gameplaywise than humanity costs (Can't expect your players these days to perform arithmetics, after all. Most can barely read.). I think I would've preferred it though.

Change into slot system brings with it a number of negatives:

1. I am now extremely worried about how much cybernetics I can stuff into me, and whether that will be enough. I want to go as cyber as possible. The concept of slots automatically brings forth a max limit. We've heard about all kinds of augments via the journalist reports...but if you can only use few at a time then its a letdown. I felt even shadowrun's decent slot system (with humanity costs, mind you) was insufficient and kinda boring. So slots may introduce width, at the expense of depth.

2. Removing humanity costs also implies possible negative effects of having too much cybernetics being removed.(Admittedly it was never claimed there were any. ) The cyberpunk world was supposed to have a dismal view on transhumanism.... that the thing intended to save you would only make you worse. That you traded one dependancy to another, and so on. This sounds that things are getting simplified for the masses again. Hey, you can do all of this to yourself and it doesn't matter at all. It's possible that I am wrong but I'm just working with the info I got.

One guy on Reddit proposed neat consequences for losing your humanity (provided the humanity cost system was in place):

The cyberpsycho squad can turn you into a fine patte, just detain you and remove your cyberware, or they can actively recruit you to join their ranks and use your advanced cybernetic capabilities to take down other who succumb to cyberpsychosis.

Link

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

In my head, I was thinking of a fun way to make Humanity Cost important. Like you said, if you constantly modify your body with augmentations, then it should leave a trace.

I wished it goes like this : let's say the augmentation list (body) is a bottomless pit, so we don't care about the limitations (as long as each augs are compatible together). You are a fresh human with 100 Hmpts (Humanity points), and through the early game you see the first augmentations and they're cheap (because it kinda goes like this on every RPG), let's say from 2 to 8 Hmpts. So you get augmented for a total of 20 Hmpts. But few gameplay hours later, you'll upgrade those augmented parts, so you change these augs for better ones (total 30 Hmpts maybe).

BUT

Each time you wanna remove an installed augmentation, it would cost Hmpts too (in the majority of cases). So one augs that cost 3 pts would also cost 1 pt for removal (you regain 2 pts), or replacement (give back 2, minus the new augs cost). One that cost 30 (kinda heavy one, might be a spinal or brain part) would cost 10 if removed. So each time you play with your fleshed body, your total of Hmpts would drop and it would (IMO) make sense for the roleplay, because a living body in general doesn't like much being sliced and mixed with alien parts, then, if you remove them completely it also means that the missing parts of your body would be replaced with something that isn't your body neither. May be "generic" flesh or IDK what to call it, but any way, not YOUR biological body.

EDIT : I know this is unlikely to go this way, but I just wanted to share.

Actually in Cyberpunk 2020 Humanity is not supposed to be a biological limitation, it's supposed to show how much you are loosing the idea of what it means to be human.
For example you might not care anymore about inflicting pain on other because you don't feel pain yourself and have forgotten what it feels like.

The idea is that the less human you are, the less you are able the feel empathy and the more you are slowly turning into a "Dexter".

Post automatically merged: Jun 19, 2019

One guy on Reddit proposed neat consequences for losing your humanity (provided the humanity cost system was in place):

Link

Why do people only talk about Cyberpsycho when they talk about loosing Humanity?
I cannot be the only one who actually played Cyberpunk 2020, can I?

 

[BabalKabak]

Actually in Cyberpunk 2020 Humanity is not supposed to be a biological limitation, it's supposed to show how much you are loosing the idea of what it means to be human.
For example you might not care anymore about inflicting pain on other because you don't feel pain yourself and have forgotten what it feels like.

The idea is that the less human you are, the less you are able the feel empathy and the more you are slowly turning into a "Dexter".

Yup well, hope so then. In Deus Ex you were heavily augmented and brainwashed by the government from the beginning. So the themes of transhumanism and humanity loss were in the foundations of the game design. Here, it might be (or expected to be) kinda look the same, but more subtle I believe. In a way or another, if V can choose his life path he gotta have more repercussion on his world than just "upgrade this, pay X Humanity". In Deus Ex you were the "bionic man", ready to test a lot of "fun" augs without repercussion. Here in CP77, I wish that we'll get to think twice before upgrading ourselves.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Here in CP77, I wish that we'll get to think twice before upgrading ourselves.

#Metoo , but it won't happens, not for Superman V at least.
C2077 is Narratives over Gameplay, and Gameplay over Substance.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

So, what’s the recap of this years E3...

- Minigame for hacking that’s made to sound like a mix of nuDeus Ex and Bethesda’s Failouts, which, as a concept, sounds pretty ghastly, but there’s still time to fix that.
- The horrid arcade bossfights are still in with the coreographed movement patterns and glowing rectal prolapses to aim at for damage, regrettably.
- Lifepathchoices gone down from 3/9 to 1/3, apparently.
- Stats cut down from 6 to 5, apparently.
- A gnarly sounding perktree with out of place +damage perks for guns.
- Boxing rings and weaponranges (that sound easily exploitable) as ”catch up” mechanics. (I don’t mind there being places to practice, but I don’t like the sound of this sort of free and effortless ”back up” thing that encourages ”everything man” builds that trivializes past commitments regarding character progression.)
- Respeccing is still in, apparently. Which is bad for the same reasons as the above, and then some. Why care about the character progression at all, when you can flip flop about it at will?
- Keanu working as a sort of Jiminy Cricket throughout the game sounds a tad questionable. How long does it take until it gets annoying?
- Apparently the city isn’t quite as interactive as one would hope for from an openworld game that touts gameplay freedom.

On the other hand...
- Gun skills apparently do exist and affect accuracy, recoil and general weapon handling. The question is: How potent a mechanic is it? How much does that actually affect gameplay?
- A number of interviews pointed out ”non-linear” storytelling (that’s different from non-linear quest structure), so perhaps things aren’t quite as heavily scripted as they seemed up until now. Or is it an interviewer misinterpretaition?
- Charactersystems (skills, stats, perks, lifepath) appear to be much more heavily present in dialog than what was implied previously. This is purely a good thing. To what extent are they in the end, though...?
- The singular lifepath choice apparently affects your starting location. This can be a good thing if it doesn’t only mean intro flavor that ultimately leads to a unified chokepoint for everyone after which everething’s the same.

Still lots of questions (details to the existing things, the fate of others, like the design for smart guns), still lots to ”fix” (from my point of view), and even though there’s some pretty gnarly stuff still remaining, I’d say this E3 was a lot more helpful in getting an idea of what the game is about and hiw it works.

There’s still 10 months plus the probable delay to polish the design, and I sincerely hope they still touch the bossfights and skillchecks with a heavier hand, and overall approach the gameplay mechanics and systems polish from an RPG point of view, as well as increase the world interactivity (items, objects, random NPC’s). Because if they do... this can well become a truly remarkable game abd an RPG, instead of just a good ”action adventure story” as the game is now described.

With all that cooking up and me having given all the feedback I have, I think I’ll take the backseat from now on.

 

[Pixel-Zealot]

Definitely! A simple case scenario would be that multiple apartments were never confirmed. And when it turned out that V would only have one, the community went a little haywire. A year ago, we didn't even know if we would have one apartment, and now everyone is disappointed because they had different expectations.

Based on the community's reaction, I think we're definitely overhyping Cyberpunk.

 

[Bloodartist]

- Minigame for hacking that’s made to sound like a mix of nuDeus Ex and Bethesda’s Failouts, which, as a concept, sounds pretty ghastly, but there’s still time to fix that.

There was an interesting description of the minigame in one of the interviews but right now I can't remember which interview it was. It sounded different from the games you mention to me, and of the hacking minigames Ive seen so far anywhere.

Basically you had to dynamically piece a line of code together from various symbols that keep moving about? It sounded interesting to be honest.

ps. I'm not that pessimistic about the game; I'm just annoyed at how difficult it is to get meaningful information about the game. I still have very little idea about what to expect.

 

[gregski]

There was an interesting description of the minigame in one of the interviews but right now I can't remember which interview it was. It sounded different from the games you mention to me, and of the hacking minigames Ive seen so far anywhere.

Basically you had to dynamically piece a line of code together from various symbols that keep moving about? It sounded interesting to be honest.

It's mentioned in this moment of YongYea's impressions.

 

[xer21]

Are we over-hyping the game?

if you have to ask, the answer is yes, we are.