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Are Western Developers getting Soft, Do CDPR have the right idea with the Witcher 3?

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AussieDad075

Rookie
#1
Apr 17, 2015
Are Western Developers getting Soft, Do CDPR have the right idea with the Witcher 3?

Just something I have been thinking about recently. I have been playing games and RPG's going back to the original Ultima series on the Apple IIE, my first RPG experience on the PC was Arena by Bethesda back in 1994!. Now alot of you would know about Bethesda if you are fans of the RPG game world because they are responsible for the fantastic and highly decorated Elder Scrolls series, Skyrim being the latest and greatest of the series. Now don't get me wrong, I know alot of you guys are fans of Skyrim, I love it too, I have invested over 1000 hours playing different charachters and whatnot on multiple play-throughs. Despite loving the series and having played all the TES games there are some things that have always been tugging away at me each and every time I played them.

The first thing that I constantly noticed is that some Western studios such as Bethesda are not really big on storytelling, yes the MQ follows a storyline of sorts, but it is rarely impressive and there are few politics or reasons to really get invested in the available plotlines. CDPR on the other hand is the opposite! They have quite a complicated but meaningful array of Questlines full of detail with Meaningful charachters that you can really relate to and who you find interesting. Bethesda's charachters on the other hand have never really made an impression on me, its more the exploring aspect that appeals to me the open world and the way the other game mechanics are implemented.

The second thing that I have noticed is how soft Studios such as Bethesda have gone on the Adult route not just in terms of sexual content, but themes and images that appeal to a more mature gaming audience. It's almost as though Bethesda's PR have got together and decided that things like Nudity and Swearing are a no-go as it might push up the games Rating and not allow 12 year olds and below from playing. Early on in the TES 1 or 2 games there were images of a naked though heavily pixelated nymph, in Morrowind you had scantily clad Dancers on stage, then in Oblivion and Skyrim nothing. Its almost as though Bethesda have lost what they set out to do when they think of the game that THEY would want to play, violence and dismemberant are fine as long as there is no nudity or swearing we can still sell the game to kids !!

CDPR have these concerns of mine quashed in the Witcher series! They have openly admitted that they want to create a game that they themselves would love to play and that means WITH a meaningful storyline, meaningful quests (Unlike alot of Skyrims go and fetch this quests) and Adult Material that they would expect Mature gamers to enjoy. Is it becuse CDPR are not Western and restricted by Western limitations, ideals and generally are less prudish? If so I wish all the Western RPG makers would situp, take notice and learn to evolve.

Releasing a Mature game is not a weakness, it is a Strength! Gone are the days where a majority of the worlds gamers were kids, the industry has evolved, Grown up if you will, but I think some game Developers are being left behind! What do you guys think? Have CDPR gone too far or are we just too used to Western ideals?
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
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Ljesnjanin

Forum veteran
#2
Apr 17, 2015
CDPR have the right idea since Witcher 1... ;)
 
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BiggusD1

Forum veteran
#3
Apr 17, 2015
Western culture more sanitized, obsessed with political correctness
 
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Riven-Twain

Riven-Twain

Moderator
#4
Apr 17, 2015
BiggusD1 said:
Western culture more sanitized, obsessed with political correctness
Click to expand...
It often keeps us looking back over our shoulders, rather than focused on the project at hand.
 
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rotcevantys

Rookie
#5
Apr 17, 2015
they are not obsessed with political correctness ... they are obsessed with sales. more importantly initial sales. they want as wide a market as they can get and that is the only truth to it.
 
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dexter2

Rookie
#6
Apr 17, 2015
W series is western in terms of setting in wide range of medieval european countries - from Poland to Norway (or cultures, if you wish to discribe it in more general way), but as it is produced in Poland, there are some slight differences in the way game is developed.
In other words, more 'kurwas'. More harsh reality. More grittiness.
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
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Rawls

Rawls

Moderator
#7
Apr 17, 2015
AussieDad075 said:
Have CDPR gone too far or are we just too used to Western ideals?
Click to expand...
It is a game for adults. As far as the game goes it sounds like CDPR is making a mature narrative driven open world RPG. That's what I want to play. I don't know about the western ideals bit (whatever "western ideals" means to you individually - because it means different things to different people). I think the question is a bit of a false choice. CDPR can make a narrative driven open world RPG that is consistent with what I think you mean by "western ideals." If I had a 12 year old kid, I would probably not let them play the game at my house. But since it is a game explicitly said to be for adults, I don't think there is an issue here. So I guess my answer is CDPR has not taken it too far and I don't think that the game conflicts with "western ideals."
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
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B_l_a_d_y

Rookie
#8
Apr 17, 2015
rotcevantys said:
they are not obsessed with political correctness ... they are obsessed with sales. more importantly initial sales. they want as wide a market as they can get and that is the only truth to it.
Click to expand...
tell this to rockstar
 
P

Polistiren1

Rookie
#9
Apr 17, 2015
B l a d y said:
tell this to rockstar
Click to expand...
Aren't they British? They were least as DMA Designs.
 
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caspartine

Rookie
#10
Apr 17, 2015
Well...I'm not as huge fan of TES lately, since Morrowind both Oblivion and Skyrim are harder and harder to chew.for me. Only recently I found out why, the games didn't really change to worse, mind you. And then it hit me, that's the very reason.
The way Morrowind told a story was kinda ok, in that time. But the next two games didn't improve it at all. So the story is rather dull, the way it's handed to you is...playing Skyrim really felt like Todd A) doesn't have a clue how to tell a stroy, B) cba to try, TES is the the only open world PRG there is, really. There's a saying in our country - A one-eyed king among the blind.

My big hope is CDPR really manage to combine a good story telling and an open world. No easy task, but someone has to do it, already. And should be praised for it for a long time.

As for the mature side. You may not agree with me, but those studios and their games you mentioned feel to me like the passion is gone, now it's just money money money. Do an R rated game and you lose a considerable portion of target demographic. (=sales)

And if the game tries to be "mature", it's either gory (even ridiculously), or it tries to look mature. Can't but mention the latest Telltale GoT games. M rated games? Why? Oh they stabbed a boy in the throat? That's cute....the dialogs are stupid. It tries to look mature, but it's so shallow, illogical, the writing is just terrible...

For me these western wannabe mature games compared to The Witcher is like comparing Goodkind's Sword of Truth to it, when comparing books. I love Terry's world, read all the books many times, but it's so silly many times. All is black and white, the good ones and the bad ones...It's gory, it can make you cry for sure, but Sapkowski is a whole different level of writer.
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
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MrSaberra

Rookie
#11
Apr 17, 2015
This whole mentioned in the topic think is about sales, for sure but CS Projekt is planning to create their world as real as they can. Stuff like swearing and sex, they may be mature, but they are also natural, which is the key. Also, about story, quests and such stuff, The Witcher requires attention and it's very complex in many aspects. You can play many games almost mindlessly, which serves well, when it comes to children, or casuals, dont think, just play, enjoy the gameplay. I love that.
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
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Phalzyr

Senior user
#12
Apr 17, 2015
We westerners certainly are odd about how we view thing. Well those who do our rating systems/censorship at least. I don't think society itself as a whole really sees it the same way. Violence, beheading, gore = so? whereas one nipple show = AHHH the poor kids most not see that. You know seeing a breast is far worse than killing people :D To sale to more people however they have to get around the extremely skewed rating system we have... So typically people here go for more violence less suggestive themes... :'(
 
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rotcevantys

Rookie
#13
Apr 17, 2015
Phalzyr said:
We westerners certainly are odd about how we view thing. Well those who do our rating systems/censorship at least. I don't think society itself as a whole really sees it the same way. Violence, beheading, gore = so? whereas one nipple show = AHHH the poor kids most not see that. You know seeing a breast is far worse than killing people :D To sale to more people however they have to get around the extremely skewed rating system we have... So typically people here go for more violence less suggestive themes... :'(
Click to expand...
It is because violence is already understood and known to people at an early age ... sexual things have a certain age where things begin to mature .... that is why violence is seen as ok and sexually suggestive themes are not. just think about it logically and it won't seem so absurd to everyone ...
 
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caspartine

Rookie
#14
Apr 17, 2015
rotcevantys said:
It is because violence is already understood and known to people at an early age ... sexual things have a certain age where things begin to mature .... that is why violence is seen as ok and sexually suggestive themes are not. just think about it logically and it won't seem so absurd to everyone ...
Click to expand...
That's A) not true, B) isn't related to the post you quote, actually.
 
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Phalzyr

Senior user
#15
Apr 17, 2015
rotcevantys said:
It is because violence is already understood and known to people at an early age ... sexual things have a certain age where things begin to mature ....
Click to expand...
People see nudity and sexual themes just as soon and often before major violence (maybe not sex itself but other parts). Also they see those IRL not just on TV (though I guess if you live in a bad neighborhood you might see major crime, I didn't ;) )

Can you seriously say a child seeing a nipple or romance or even sex, is worse than them seeing someone beheading another person? Whether they understand it or not? Though if they don't understand the sexual part they simply won't think anything of it whereas that doesn't apply the other way around.

caspartine said:
That's A) not true, B) isn't related to the post you quote, actually.
Click to expand...
You beat me to it trying to form a response without sounding to... Hopefully the above doesn't offend...
 
K

Kassandrian

Forum regular
#16
Apr 17, 2015
I think it has to do with several facors.
One already mentioned is, that the circumstances (with GOT and DkS being very popular) are allowing for a company to target the adult and "mature" computer player market, offering them a complex and intervoven product, which was kinda difficult a numer of years ago (at least I feel so). Media are evolving into more of a complex and dark/grey instead of black/white theme.
The next is, that for CDPR, this it the first "big" game - let'S remember they still were a small studio one game ago. They have to establish themselves in a gap on the market, obviously they chose the one they already started to occupy and are currently stillstaying true to that theme (e.g. Blizz before sellout).
They have to prove on one hand they can sell much, but even more on the other that they will not at the first "big opportunity" turn their backs on the old guard of supporters.
The fact, that europe and other "non american" countries are able to offer a significant market share, I feel the biggest problem with things like nudity etc might come for the american market...

theres even more, but these pring to my mind
 
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caspartine

Rookie
#17
Apr 17, 2015
Phalzyr said:
You beat me to it trying to form a response without sounding to... Hopefully the above doesn't offend...
Click to expand...
Well honestly i couldn't care less how it may sound. The post is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a decen't answer cause it's clear it woud not be understood.
 
P

Phalzyr

Senior user
#18
Apr 17, 2015
Kassandrian said:
I feel the biggest problem with things like nudity etc might come for the american market...
Click to expand...
[
A lot yes, as we are a big market and our rating system is skewed toward nudity being a big no no unlike many countries. Though I'm sure some others also view nudity in that manner. Honestly I only pay close attention to ours, but have seen how open other are on the subject in a more realistic manner. Then some countries are very anti-gore... So publishers have to be careful when marketing for the masses. Glad CDPR have done what they wanted with the witcher seriers :D

---------- Updated at 01:07 PM ----------

caspartine said:
Well honestly i couldn't care less how it may sound. The post is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve a decen't answer cause it's clear it woud not be understood.
Click to expand...
Wasn't saying yours sounded that way... Mine when I first typed it came off a bit to heavy so was editing it... trying to think of a better way to put it. Sometime I struggle with explaining my thoughts. Yeah I probably shouldn't respond seriously...
 
Darkhollow

Darkhollow

Forum veteran
#19
Apr 17, 2015
American developers are against putting nudity in their games, but when it comes to gore and violence they turn that to eleven, but God forbid they show a boob. I find that so hypocritical and sad at the same time.

I wish we would have more developers like CDPR that develop their games as they want and don't care about being "PC".
 
Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
D

Darth-Death

Rookie
#20
Apr 17, 2015
Two things:

-Bethesda doesn't represent the entirety of western devs.

-You can still have a good, even mature product without the usage of profanity, nudity, etc.
 
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