He's talking about using assire to put a used muzzle/garrison or whatever back into your deck and tutor them out again with menno.
I never thought it was OP or anything but it is pretty strong. Seen lots of people use it with skellen, saw one guy use garrison 5 times.
Well, I don't think that is more overpowered than replaying gold cards etc, which is now a leader ability of both Francesca and Emhyr, plus there are cards that do the same.
It's as far as I concerned a rare move as well. Assire is 6 power and 8 provisions, and mostly used for tempo with Roach. I know Muzzle is annoying. But I don't really see the argument here, as long as Francesca can play a gold special card twice. I don't think it's worse than that, just about equally bad.
I'm not sure tbh. I was pretty convinced it could be bad for the game to replay gold cards many times, and made a thread about it. People gave some good counter arguments, but I was still pretty convinced it's not a good thing with alot of gold replays. I made an Emhyr deck, he can now replay a gold NG after his ability changed. I feel this deck is a bit unfair to my opponents. But then again, it's not like I always win, so perhaps it is only overpowered equal to many other overpowered decks.
Point is, I am not sure, but if double Muzzle is overpowered, or Assire, I don't think it is more overpowered than any of those things I've mentioned. 20 point swing. I swing maybe 40 points with Emhyr in a good play, maybe even more.
I think it is an interesting thought, but I think it should be a talk made in context with the other gold replays. I'm not made up on the topic, and more doubt has been put into me, but I'm still more on the side that gold replays is probably not the best thing for the game, and that many gold replays seems to be overpowered and might hurt the game in the long run.
It's as far as I concerned a rare move as well. Assire is 6 power and 8 provisions, and mostly used for tempo with Roach. I know Muzzle is annoying. But I don't really see the argument here, as long as Francesca can play a gold special card twice. I don't think it's worse than that, just about equally bad.
I'm not sure tbh. I was pretty convinced it could be bad for the game to replay gold cards many times, and made a thread about it. People gave some good counter arguments, but I was still pretty convinced it's not a good thing with alot of gold replays. I made an Emhyr deck, he can now replay a gold NG after his ability changed. I feel this deck is a bit unfair to my opponents. But then again, it's not like I always win, so perhaps it is only overpowered equal to many other overpowered decks.
Point is, I am not sure, but if double Muzzle is overpowered, or Assire, I don't think it is more overpowered than any of those things I've mentioned. 20 point swing. I swing maybe 40 points with Emhyr in a good play, maybe even more.
I think it is an interesting thought, but I think it should be a talk made in context with the other gold replays. I'm not made up on the topic, and more doubt has been put into me, but I'm still more on the side that gold replays is probably not the best thing for the game, and that many gold replays seems to be overpowered and might hurt the game in the long run.
Of all the cards in all the factions to nerf, Assire is the problem...
Yes, she was really strong in Beta, but now is just fine, even underwhelming (as pointed - 9 PTS for 8 Provs in 90% of the time), can work as a good tech in certain situation or help you replay a strong card second time, especially if your deck does not put points on the board effortlessly like MS or SK are doing. And than you must have the right cards or luck, to replay that card again. It's not like Francesca, where with a last play on Aglais you can just obliterate your opponent.
Yes, she was really strong in Beta, but now is just fine, even underwhelming (as pointed - 9 PTS for 8 Provs in 90% of the time), can work as a good tech in certain situation or help you replay a strong card second time, especially if your deck does not put points on the board effortlessly like MS or SK are doing. And than you must have the right cards or luck, to replay that card again. It's not like Francesca, where with a last play on Aglais you can just obliterate your opponent.
Well, Menno is 9 provisions and put 2 points on the table. Combined with Garrison it's a 12 power move for 9 provision or a 10 point swing with muzzle, plus 2 power, 12 points.
Compared to some of the gold replay moves I've seen (and used with Emhyr), Assire+Menno is definetely not the most powerful I've seen, quite far from it actually.
Neither Menno or Assire is providing huge value in such a move. But ofcourse, the move can be very powerful if played with the right timing. I'm not saying I find it ok. I have my doubts generally over gold replays.
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Yeah, I forgot that. How Skellige have to have all of the abilities of other factions. And they were lacking in big units, so they were added.
That's way more annoying than Muzzle with Assire. Not only are they the most powerful destroy faction (without orders), and at least equally good at boosting to NR, but they had no big units, so ofcourse those had to be added, on top of all the other strengths of Skellige. Graveyard interaction almost as good as monsters, better than Nilfgaard, locking, not as good as Nilfgaard, but better than most. Tall removal with ridiculously easy condition, and their very own specialities like Berserk, bloodlust, self destroy, discard etc etc, etc etc.
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Incorrect.
Menno is 9 PP* with 2 STR body, Garrison is 11 PP with 10 STR (with the condition that you already have to have a body on the board), so you get 12 STR for 20 PP, meanwhile Assire is 8 PP and 6 STR, so:
11+8+9+11=39 PP goes for 10+6+2+10=28 STR for three turns (unless you are playing Calveit and get lucky, where you can go down to 2 turns), using three Gold Cards.
39 PP for 28 STR in 3 turns is OP?
*Provision Points
Roach is 10 provisions and a 3 point value basically. It is still a reasonably used card. It doesn't exactly live up to it's 10 provisions in terms of power, but it's not a bad card, and it can be re-used, with among others Assire.
I guess other than that it provides tempo and thinning. I think Roach is pretty well balanced. Saying Assire and Roach is 18 PP is wrong. Because in that case, Roach has already been played once. Assire is just one way to get MORE value from Roach, so it's on Assire's provisions, not Roach'.
Assire + Roach can be a good move, but there is absolutely nothing overpowered, overwhelming, underwhelming or anything else about it. It's a calculation. I like it, even though I never use it, and some people use it R2 and create issues for me if I need to win that round.
All Assire actually does is put 6 points on the table and move a card from the graveyard. That's not overpowered at all. Compare that to 4 PP and 4 STR that banish a unit from the graveyard, or 4STR 4PP bluestrip that bring 8 STR tempo etc etc.
Assire is not overpowered by itself, it's a reasonable card. It's a R2 or R3 card, and it can't work alone unless you rely on some luck, or if you use it for Roach. You can't expect to draw that moved card in R3 with randomness.
I guess other than that it provides tempo and thinning. I think Roach is pretty well balanced. Saying Assire and Roach is 18 PP is wrong. Because in that case, Roach has already been played once. Assire is just one way to get MORE value from Roach, so it's on Assire's provisions, not Roach'.
Assire + Roach can be a good move, but there is absolutely nothing overpowered, overwhelming, underwhelming or anything else about it. It's a calculation. I like it, even though I never use it, and some people use it R2 and create issues for me if I need to win that round.
All Assire actually does is put 6 points on the table and move a card from the graveyard. That's not overpowered at all. Compare that to 4 PP and 4 STR that banish a unit from the graveyard, or 4STR 4PP bluestrip that bring 8 STR tempo etc etc.
Assire is not overpowered by itself, it's a reasonable card. It's a R2 or R3 card, and it can't work alone unless you rely on some luck, or if you use it for Roach. You can't expect to draw that moved card in R3 with randomness.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's like you typed all that out without understanding my post.
Since you've already used garrison, and put it back in with assire why would you count those provisions again? I was just using roach as an example because it's the same situation.
Assire is fine now. The sequence you're describing depends on good draws and playing a special early before it may be optimal.
However, I don't think Roach should necessarily be re-triggered by Assire, which has always struck me as a weird interaction (same with decoy). He should only pop back out on the next gold. This almost seems like a bug that was just ignored.
However, I don't think Roach should necessarily be re-triggered by Assire, which has always struck me as a weird interaction (same with decoy). He should only pop back out on the next gold. This almost seems like a bug that was just ignored.
That's kind of a good point. The right sequence is that Assire is played, then card is put back in deck. So it is put back after the gold card is played.
So, technically, you are right. Or perhaps it counts from the end of the move.