Thank you for interesting post. I'll do my best to not dissapoint you.
@theta77; And thank you for adding to our discussion, even if you didn't even drop a hint of an answer for the numerous questions we've raised here... that's alright ! Just as the journeys often better than the destination, the mysteries are often better than the solutions, but I suspect you are well aware of that
@Wizigard; Since the same game engine will be used for CP2077, and vehicles have been confirmed for that iirc, it's quite possible the chicken leg hut may move. This image isn't a screenshot but if you look at the hut itself you may get peckish
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@Wizigard; Since the same game engine will be used for CP2077, and vehicles have been confirmed for that iirc, it's quite possible the chicken leg hut may move. This image isn't a screenshot but if you look at the hut itself you may get peckish
View attachment 6197
Attachments
In other semi-related / unrelated facts, reading LordCrash's post, describing Baba Yaga deep in a forest, I couldn't help but be reminded of another game character, Ravel Puzzlewell, locked deep in a maze made of branches and thorns, from Planescape : Torment. A Nighthag who would test anyone she saw with a certain riddle. Of course, D&D Nighthags are based on the concept of Baba Yaga.
Speaking of old hags in forests, heres an old nursery rhyme that pretty much sums up folkore
The River Saile (promounced: Sallya & wheelya, wheelya, whaalya)
There was an old woman who lived in the woods,
weile weile waile.
There was an old woman and she lived in the woods,
down by the river Saile.
She had a wee baby only three months old,
weile weile waile.
She had a baby three months old,
down by the river Saile.
She had a big knife, three foot long,
weile weile waile.
She had a big knife, sharp and strong,
down by the river Saile.
She stuck the knife in the baby’s head,
weile weile waile.
The more she stabbed it the more it bled,
down by the river Saile.
Three big knocks come a’knockin' on the door,
weile weile waile.
There were two policemen and a Black n' Tan,
down by the river Saile.
"Are you the woman that killed the child?"
weile weile waile.
"Are you the woman that killed the child?"
down by the river Saile.
"I am the woman that killed the child."
weile weile waile.
"I am the woman that killed the child."
down by the river Saile.
They took her away and they put her in the jail,
weile weile waile.
They took her away and they put her in the jail,
down by the river Saile.
They put a rope around her neck,
weile weile waile.
They put a rope around her neck,
down by the river Saile.
The rope was pulled and she was hung,
weile weile waile.
The rope got pulled and she was hung,
down by the river Saile.
And that was the end of the woman in the woods,
weile weile waile.
And that was the end of the baby too,
down by the river Saile.
The moral of this story is,
weile weile waile.
Don't stick knives in babies' heads
down by the river Saile.
The River Saile (promounced: Sallya & wheelya, wheelya, whaalya)
There was an old woman who lived in the woods,
weile weile waile.
There was an old woman and she lived in the woods,
down by the river Saile.
She had a wee baby only three months old,
weile weile waile.
She had a baby three months old,
down by the river Saile.
She had a big knife, three foot long,
weile weile waile.
She had a big knife, sharp and strong,
down by the river Saile.
She stuck the knife in the baby’s head,
weile weile waile.
The more she stabbed it the more it bled,
down by the river Saile.
Three big knocks come a’knockin' on the door,
weile weile waile.
There were two policemen and a Black n' Tan,
down by the river Saile.
"Are you the woman that killed the child?"
weile weile waile.
"Are you the woman that killed the child?"
down by the river Saile.
"I am the woman that killed the child."
weile weile waile.
"I am the woman that killed the child."
down by the river Saile.
They took her away and they put her in the jail,
weile weile waile.
They took her away and they put her in the jail,
down by the river Saile.
They put a rope around her neck,
weile weile waile.
They put a rope around her neck,
down by the river Saile.
The rope was pulled and she was hung,
weile weile waile.
The rope got pulled and she was hung,
down by the river Saile.
And that was the end of the woman in the woods,
weile weile waile.
And that was the end of the baby too,
down by the river Saile.
The moral of this story is,
weile weile waile.
Don't stick knives in babies' heads
down by the river Saile.
The Romanian/Transylvanian equivalent of Baba Yaga would be Baba Cloanță which is also called "Muma Padurii" (Mother of the Forest) and "Muma Mumelor"(All-Mother,lit.Mother of Mothers).Baba Cloanță is seen as a grotesque being that is capable of being both bad and good,punishing thieves and helping people that are down on their luck,helping lost children find their way ,knowing all of the names and/or nicknames of the trees in the forest and condeming them to be cut by man if they would anger her etc.It is said that she could also shapeshift into animals,pretty women,change her size etc.Also said is that if you should cross paths with her and hear her wailing you should ask her why she's crying and if she answers with "I haven't eaten in a week" you should feed her.
After watching the 30 min gamplay demo I can definitly see some similarities between the old hags and the Baba Cloanță/Yaga myth (the mural which portrays them as beautiful women when in fact they are not,the orphanage for "lost children",the tree spirit being "cut down" by Geralt at their behest,the ear the man cuts off as "tribute") but I don't thing they are inspired by just one thing.As others have already pointed out I think the Faiths were a bigger or at least of equal inspiration.
After watching the 30 min gamplay demo I can definitly see some similarities between the old hags and the Baba Cloanță/Yaga myth (the mural which portrays them as beautiful women when in fact they are not,the orphanage for "lost children",the tree spirit being "cut down" by Geralt at their behest,the ear the man cuts off as "tribute") but I don't thing they are inspired by just one thing.As others have already pointed out I think the Faiths were a bigger or at least of equal inspiration.
I, as person that rarely got in contact with legends and folklore from East Europe, am facinated with this topic. Here in Brazil we mainly get in contact with Portuguese and Italian folklore that are mixed with the folklore from the native indians and african people. With it weren't for The Witcher series and you guys and would never would learn these amazing tales. Thank you!
Talking about the game, I think I will side with the Tree Spirit. Didn't liked those three hags
Talking about the game, I think I will side with the Tree Spirit. Didn't liked those three hags
Do you recall what foods she likes / doesn't like?
In Ireland such entities favour simple baked goods, milk, & apples. If you've none of the above on you turning your coat inside out helps mollify them, for some reason...
@Aes Sídhe
For the most part you could feed her anything as long as it didn't come from the forest (berries/wild apples and pears,mushrooms etc).Incidently,shepards and huntsman would usually have cheese,apples and placinta (pie) on them so that would be,I imagine,their offering of choice.Still,they where advised to excersise caution even after they made good with the Baba.As the supreme protector of the forest she wouldn't take kindly to people messing with her children ,seriously injuring them if they were caught.It is said that just whisteling while in her domain would be enough to incur her wrath as this would keep her "kin" from sleeping.Going back to her wailing,the reason for her constant grife is because men would cut down her children and women would steal their children (nuts and berries) in turn.
"Muma Mumelor, Muma Padurilor, Sa te aud din asta noapte Cu vacile zbierând, Cu porcii grohaind, Cu câinii latrând, Cu lupii urlând ..."
(Trans=Mother of Mothers,Mother of the Forest,Let me hear you from this night on,Yelling with the cows,Squealing with the pigs,Barking with the dogs,Howling with the wolves...)
She would often visit people that lived on the outskirts of her forest.Riding on top of her mare with 9 hearts with rain,wind and hail following her as companions she would barge in and shut evey open door and window violently.Then she would offer her good will to the people of the house as trade for combs and butter so that she could make her hair look pretty.In a situation like this people were advised to not say more then three words because if the Baba would hear the forth she would take their voices.
Besides trees and forest dwelling critters it was said that she had one daughter and two sons,the spirits of the night :Miaza-Noapte(Midnight), Zorila(Dawn) and Murgila(Twillight).These three siblings would spend eternity chasing after one another never to meet (a simbol of the passage of time and a constant presence in Romanian folktales).
Sidenote:
-In some stories she had two daughters and two sons but only the three above are consistently mentioned in tales and legends ouside of the Baba Cloanța myth.The daughter that is missing above is Decuseara (Dusk).
-Other beings that are considered to be related to her in one way or another:Mosul Codrului (Old man of the Forest), 0mul Padurii (Man of the Forest) si Fata Padurii (Daughter of the Forest,posible relation to the Iele creatures of Romanian myth).
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the OP and eveyone that has contributed to this thread with myths from their countries!I really enjoy reading things like this from the actual people that live there instead of some inpersonal article or book.
Some additional mythical creatures from Transylvania and Romania as a whole:
Large wall of text.You will have to excuse any spelling errors or mistakes of the sort I might have made.
For the most part you could feed her anything as long as it didn't come from the forest (berries/wild apples and pears,mushrooms etc).Incidently,shepards and huntsman would usually have cheese,apples and placinta (pie) on them so that would be,I imagine,their offering of choice.Still,they where advised to excersise caution even after they made good with the Baba.As the supreme protector of the forest she wouldn't take kindly to people messing with her children ,seriously injuring them if they were caught.It is said that just whisteling while in her domain would be enough to incur her wrath as this would keep her "kin" from sleeping.Going back to her wailing,the reason for her constant grife is because men would cut down her children and women would steal their children (nuts and berries) in turn.
(Trans=Mother of Mothers,Mother of the Forest,Let me hear you from this night on,Yelling with the cows,Squealing with the pigs,Barking with the dogs,Howling with the wolves...)
She would often visit people that lived on the outskirts of her forest.Riding on top of her mare with 9 hearts with rain,wind and hail following her as companions she would barge in and shut evey open door and window violently.Then she would offer her good will to the people of the house as trade for combs and butter so that she could make her hair look pretty.In a situation like this people were advised to not say more then three words because if the Baba would hear the forth she would take their voices.
Besides trees and forest dwelling critters it was said that she had one daughter and two sons,the spirits of the night :Miaza-Noapte(Midnight), Zorila(Dawn) and Murgila(Twillight).These three siblings would spend eternity chasing after one another never to meet (a simbol of the passage of time and a constant presence in Romanian folktales).
Sidenote:
-In some stories she had two daughters and two sons but only the three above are consistently mentioned in tales and legends ouside of the Baba Cloanța myth.The daughter that is missing above is Decuseara (Dusk).
-Other beings that are considered to be related to her in one way or another:Mosul Codrului (Old man of the Forest), 0mul Padurii (Man of the Forest) si Fata Padurii (Daughter of the Forest,posible relation to the Iele creatures of Romanian myth).
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the OP and eveyone that has contributed to this thread with myths from their countries!I really enjoy reading things like this from the actual people that live there instead of some inpersonal article or book.
Some additional mythical creatures from Transylvania and Romania as a whole:
Iele
The romanian equivalent of Dryads/Nimfs.They are said too be invizible during the day but you could see them at night in remote places (ponds,river banks and,in some cases,even in the sky) dancing together in a circle.They are portrayed as good spirits but if offended or if someone sees them while they are doing their dance they would hypnotise the culprit with their dance and make him/her fall asleep.A song describes them as follows:
Spiriduș
Basically a house elf,although in some cases it is portrayed as a chick.They are born from abandoned eggs that the house owner keeps under his armpit for 40 days.When the egg hatches the Spiriduș must be placed in a red,newly made pot with onion peels.After that it should grant it's master every wish until it dies.It should be noted that even tho I put the image of sweet,innocent Dobby to describe it a Spiriduș is considered to be a creature of the Devil and that when it's mortal master dies it takes his/her soul to the depths of hell.
Strigoi
Vampires.The Dacians considered them to be spirits that weren't welcomed in the kingdom of Zalmoxis (their all powerful god).Afterwards the myth changed and they were considered to be men and women born cursed before birth or by pregnent women that drank tainted water(by the Devil).Commonly described as having red hair with a little bald spot on top,blue eyes and a pertruding spine that ends in a hairy tail they eat and behave just like anyother human being.Consuming blood/life force is just a "nutritional supplement" to them and going without won't kill them.The only things they avoid are incence,onions and garlic.Crosses,holy water and sunlight do jack shit to them.Besides the normal strigoi,which is born, a man could become a strigoi in death if he wasn't happy in life,if he was cursed etc.
Sidenote:Till this day folks from the Transylvanian country side rub garlic on the frames of windows and doors to ward off Vampires and Werewolves.
Other creatures:
-Balaur: Dragon or Hydra.Almost every hero in romanian myths fights one.
-Capcaun:Two headed Ogre with the power to shapeshift into animals.Sometimes also portrayed as a giant man with the head of a dog.
-Varcolac:Werewolf.Probably the most important mythical creature for the dacian people.Men that were "drafted" into the army would undergo a ritual to become closer with the wolf spirit.Also,some of you might find this funny but sometimes in death a Strigoi would become a Werewolf.
-Zmeu: Dragonlike creature that could take a human form if it so desired (Hello Saskia).Usually fights with Prince Charming in romanian fairytales.
Ro
"Voi Ielelor
Măiastrelor
dușmane oamenilor
stăpânele vîntului
doamnele pământului
ce prin văzduh zburați
pe iarbă lunecați
și pe valuri călcați
vă duceți în locuri depărtate
în baltă, trestie, pustietate
unde popă nu toacă
unde fată nu joacă.
Vă duceți în gura vîntului
să vă loviți de toarta pământului"
En
"You Ieles
Magnificent ones
Enemies of men
Mistresses of wind
Ladies of the earth
Soaring through the sky
Sliding through the grass
Walking on the waves
Going to every far away place
In ponds,reeds,solitude
Where the priest doesn't call you to church
Where the girl doesn't dance
You go in the mouth of the wind
To colide with the handles (pillars) of the earth."
"Voi Ielelor
Măiastrelor
dușmane oamenilor
stăpânele vîntului
doamnele pământului
ce prin văzduh zburați
pe iarbă lunecați
și pe valuri călcați
vă duceți în locuri depărtate
în baltă, trestie, pustietate
unde popă nu toacă
unde fată nu joacă.
Vă duceți în gura vîntului
să vă loviți de toarta pământului"
En
"You Ieles
Magnificent ones
Enemies of men
Mistresses of wind
Ladies of the earth
Soaring through the sky
Sliding through the grass
Walking on the waves
Going to every far away place
In ponds,reeds,solitude
Where the priest doesn't call you to church
Where the girl doesn't dance
You go in the mouth of the wind
To colide with the handles (pillars) of the earth."
Spiriduș
Basically a house elf,although in some cases it is portrayed as a chick.They are born from abandoned eggs that the house owner keeps under his armpit for 40 days.When the egg hatches the Spiriduș must be placed in a red,newly made pot with onion peels.After that it should grant it's master every wish until it dies.It should be noted that even tho I put the image of sweet,innocent Dobby to describe it a Spiriduș is considered to be a creature of the Devil and that when it's mortal master dies it takes his/her soul to the depths of hell.
Strigoi
Sidenote:Till this day folks from the Transylvanian country side rub garlic on the frames of windows and doors to ward off Vampires and Werewolves.
Other creatures:
-Balaur: Dragon or Hydra.Almost every hero in romanian myths fights one.
-Capcaun:Two headed Ogre with the power to shapeshift into animals.Sometimes also portrayed as a giant man with the head of a dog.
-Varcolac:Werewolf.Probably the most important mythical creature for the dacian people.Men that were "drafted" into the army would undergo a ritual to become closer with the wolf spirit.Also,some of you might find this funny but sometimes in death a Strigoi would become a Werewolf.
-Zmeu: Dragonlike creature that could take a human form if it so desired (Hello Saskia).Usually fights with Prince Charming in romanian fairytales.
Large wall of text.You will have to excuse any spelling errors or mistakes of the sort I might have made.
Ever since Marcin mentioned this I've wanted to know more. I've looked for the book and I assume its "Manuscript Discovered in a Dragon's Cave":
I absolutely love the sound of this and can't agree more with the words quoted above. Also the following direct quote from Mr Sapkowski:
I can't find the book in English though unfortunately, so I'm asking here if anyone has read it to volunteer to tell us some things. I'm not asking Mr. Blacha to be bothered by another task, so hopefully some other fine Pole will step up. A particular question I have right now, the reason I started on this quest launched by the top quote, is what are his thoughts on the Holy Grail?
I'll chime in a little of what I know thats beyond the Brythonic based Arthurian Legend we all should know quite well. The following is from Lady Gregory's "Gods and Fighting Men", a populist version of Irish myths she wrote in a dialect she constructed in English with Gaelic syntax:
The Cauldron of The Dagda was said to never be empty, that an honourable person would always find meat on the end of a fork they stuck into it. Occasionally described as an entrance to the World of the Dead, it could reanimate corpses for a short while - it could give life. People refer to the Gundestrup cauldron when talking about it, though the texts describe it on many wheels (3*9 iirc - can't put my hands on the description right now), note the wheel motifs on the Gundestrup. I have read many scholars and researchers link this artefact as a genesis of the celtic holy grail myth. Combined with the geis on a maimed / blemished / shamed king losing eligibility to rule, which was ritually seen as a marriage between the Earth Goddess & Man, and the fact that a massive ROUND cauldron could be considered something of a Table... you have the core elements of the Arthurian Legend. I'm wondering if Sapkowski thought anything along these lines?
Incidentally the Lia Fail (the stone of Truth) which proclaimed the rightful ruler by noise when touched, is traditionally thought (by some - others think it remains at Tara) to be the Stone of Scone, which even the current Queen of England sat on for her coronation.
Totally agree, it's great hearing directly from folk about their tales. Your last post has since had me pondering some other things which I'll get to next !
@up NO , look here http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Świat_króla_Artura._Maladie "world of king arthur.Maladie"
the thing is people mixing diffrent stuff ithere is short story Maladie and there is essey called świat króla artura published with a short story Maladie together in 1995
u can read short stroy direct from Sapkowski official site http://www.sapkowski.pl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=404
u can read short stroy direct from Sapkowski official site http://www.sapkowski.pl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=404
"Manuscript..." is a lexicon of terms and characters. It includes entries about arthurian characters. There is also entry about Joseph of Arimathea (Mr. Sapkowski explains that his history was made up by christians, because they wanted to change the meaning of old celtic symbol - the Grail, because English clergy wanted to prove, that Joseph was visiting England before Mary of Clopas was visiting France, and to build the legend of Glastonbury Abbey).
"Manuscript..." also mentions many other characters, like Queen Mab, Baba Yaga or Lilith. There is also a bestiary.
"Świat Króla Artura" is a well written and popular summary of arthurian legends. Sapkowski explains who is who and how celtic legends became christian legends. There is a chapter about "the mystery of the Grail". In the end Sapkowski makes a statement, that for him the Grail was a woman.
"Manuscript..." also mentions many other characters, like Queen Mab, Baba Yaga or Lilith. There is also a bestiary.
"Świat Króla Artura" is a well written and popular summary of arthurian legends. Sapkowski explains who is who and how celtic legends became christian legends. There is a chapter about "the mystery of the Grail". In the end Sapkowski makes a statement, that for him the Grail was a woman.
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Thanks for this... I am getting the feeling that I have maybe seen that summary translated somewhere, sometime. I tried to find something translated about the Manuscript, to no avail unfortunately, sounds like something i'd enjoy. Grail as a Woman, very feasible theory, probably best detailed (that i've read anyway) in Holy Blood Holy Grail by Baigent & Leigh. If I recall correctly they also mention the Dagda's Cauldron (The 4 Treasures are also termed the Treasures of the Goddess Danu, since it was Her land they come from).
I have read Holy Blood Holy Grail like 10 years ago, so I don't remember exactly, but AFAIR that book says, that womb of Mary Magdalene was the Grail. Sapkowski glorifies women in general (and ofc. he mentions the cauldron).
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You know, I really have to warn you, I feel I could maintain a conversation with you about these thing indefinitely. You keep mentioning topics I find intriguing, like Lilith to name just one that hasn't been mentioned already in the thread. This would no doubt be to the detriment of both our workloads !
and work is what I must do now... but if you ever find yourself in Belfast the drinks are on me !
and work is what I must do now... but if you ever find yourself in Belfast the drinks are on me !