Balance Council - Share your picks for Oct-Nov Season

[Barracuda88]

Are there 2 November votes? Thought it was only for this first season there were 2 votes and November-December season will only have one vote.

If so, I think using this thread for the second "test" vote is fine.

 

[ShinAkira00]

Post automatically merged: Nov 3, 2023

Frankly, this is exactly what I expected would happen.

For years, many people in the community had been constantly complaining that the devs "don't listen to the community (enough)" , that the community would be able to "fix the game" better than the devs, and about changes made by the devs.

And now that the community was given control... these latest changes happened, and many are complaining about the changes made by the community.

Many people, doubtless, vote to nerf cards or decks they personally dislike, and to buff ones they personally like -- which absolutely is NOT how a game should be balanced. Therein lies the biggest problem with the new system: many votes are cast based on subjective rather than objective reasons.

Is this a valid assessment when:
1. It's only been one month vs Devs having several years

2. Changes are limited to only provision and power, not the mechanics themselves, many of which need to be reworked.

3 Despite some weird buffs, some of the nerfs were well deserved.

4. many of the existing power creep issues were created by the devs just a few months ago, suggesting they learnt nothing after several years.

You may very well be right in the end and I certainly have very little hope for the game but the community isn't the reason for the current state of the game, it was already broken when they got it.

 

[Draconifors]

Is this a valid assessment when

Fact: For years, many complained about the devs' balancing decisions, claiming the community would be able to do a better job.

Fact: Many are now complaining about changes 100% made by the community.

Fact: The Balance Council is all about allowing players (many of whom are not objective or reasonable in their decisions, as proven by the Reaver Hunters nerf butchering) to balance the game.

Conclusion: Yes, it is.

but the community isn't the reason for the current state of the game

Putting words in other people's mouths is a really lousy way to try to have a discussion.
A great way to instantly invalidate the argument you try to make by doing it, though, and highly likely to lead to not getting acknowledged further.

In other words, I never said the community is responsible for the entire, current situation.

 

[Ry_Ry]

Sadly, have to focus mostly on fixing bad votes in previous voting

 

[Trevorzan]

I think it makes sense to continue in this thread, since there are technically 2 votes this season?

good point

 

[Jannay]

Corrections of the previous "patch" and some nerfs for Ogroids.

 

[ShinAkira00]

Putting words in other people's mouths is a really lousy way to try to have a discussion.
A great way to instantly invalidate the argument you try to make by doing it, though, and highly likely to lead to not getting acknowledged further.

In other words, I never said the community is responsible for the entire, current situation.

You said and I quote:
"For years, many people in the community had been constantly complaining that the devs "don't listen to the community (enough)" , that the community would be able to "fix the game" better than the devs, and about changes made by the devs."

You drew a direct parallel between the devs changes over several years and the community making a single change. By suggesting these two things are even equivalent yes, you implied that the community holds similar responsibility. Even suggesting it partially would be an overreach with just the handful of changes made. Perhaps it's not what you meant but the criticism was either misplaced or worded poorly. I don't even disagree with the core of what you are saying, just that it's way too early to declare that. You seemed to have taken a minor criticism personally, I'm not sure why but I'll leave it at that and move on.

Post automatically merged: Nov 3, 2023

Corrections of the previous "patch" and some nerfs for Ogroids.
View attachment 11372614

Even though I'm a MO player I actually agree Ogres need a nerf. I'm surprised you don't have King Chrum on your list although I don't even see how to nerf him when his whole ability is the problem. So what will happen is we will end up nerfing other cards that were previously ok. This is going to be a nightmare.

 

[Jannay]

Even though I'm a MO player I actually agree Ogres need a nerf. I'm surprised you don't have King Chrum on your list although I don't even see how to nerf him when his whole ability is the problem. So what will happen is we will end up nerfing other cards that were previously ok. This is going to be a nightmare.

I don't know what to do with Chrum. And, of course, those nerfs are minimal. It's just a little bit less point slam for Ogroids.

 

[quintivarium]

I want to strongly advocate for restoring Bare Knuckle Brawler to 4 provisions. My rationale is the following:

1. Brawler is not a high value card — 4 points for 4 (now 5) provisions and a one point per coin spender.
2. Brawler is one of very few “fee” cards that is not based on boost.
3. In some decks, a four provision Brawler is an important possible target for Eventide Plunder.
4. A viable Brawler adds significant variety to SY decks and is crucial to Casimir and Eveline being usable.
5. I can think of no legitimate reason for the nerf. Brawler’s damage cannot target opponents for removal. At four power, it is not hard to control if it is an actual threat. To a particular deck. Prior to the vice archetype, Brawler was virtually unused. It may have been annoying in vice decks but was never a reason that vice became so formidable; that was due coin carryover and OP vice cards — issues that should no longer exist.

At this point, reducing Brawler’s provisions back to four is the only vote I have decided. I am hoping to see good suggestions for other meaningful votes in this discussion.

 

[Trevorzan]

my picks

 

[WhiteWolf4207]

my picks

Nerf to Inspired Zeal and Oneiromancy makes me sad the most. There are other questionable picks in your voting, but I would like you to reconsider nerfing Oneiromancy and Inspired Zeal.

Post automatically merged: Nov 4, 2023

Corrections of the previous "patch" and some nerfs for Ogroids.
View attachment 11372614

Besides Ogroids nerfs and buff to Slave Driver, rest of the changes I liked.

 

[igor565]

my picks

This is the most random buff/nerf picks I’ve seen so far.

 

[quintivarium]

Upon reflection, I am not in favor of reversing most nerfs from the first balance council. Even though I believe some factions (NG, SY) got hit disproportionately, I think that almost all cards that got hit really deserve it. I prefer to restore balance to those factions by giving buffs to cards that truly could use them and focusing nerfs to the massive amount of OP garbage in other factions.

Even Reaver Hunters (completely destroyed by the wrong nerf) is not a card I will vote for. I frankly don’t want to waste two votes on it (one to boost power and restore its functionality and another to nerf provisions to keep it from badly disrupting enjoyment of the game). I am not at all unhappy that it is simply gone from Gwent.

Reversing the ridiculous buffs (e.g. Magic Compass) is another matter.

What do you all see in NG and SY that could really use buffs? What in the current dominating factions (esp. SK and NG) are the biggest OP culprits? What in MO (untouched last balance council) needs a nerf? I am not inclined to nerf Ogroids (except maybe Tugo) as I think true pointslam (tall, non-engine units) is underrepresented and I don’t think Ogroid decks are strong.

 

[Barracuda88]

Power Increase:
1. Dunca
2.Gord
3. Whisperer of DB

Power Decrease:
1. Braathens
2. Crach An Craite
3. Calveit

Provision increase:
1.Compass
2.Reaver Scout
3. Warlord

Provision Decrease:
1. Hawker smuggler
2. Yarpen
3. Milva Sharpshooter

 

[Trevorzan]

+ power

fallen rayla is not that used (i think), expensive, and not that great currently. more power would make it less vulnerable (at least survive a bit longer the attacks it receives).

vernon roche is actually a nerf lol. it would give one point to the opponent, but this card gets two cards to the player, so this extra point is barely noticeable.

toad prince is annoying, but it is expensive i think. this is the section took me longer. easy to spot op cards, not that easy to spot cards rhat need some buff and are not part of "meta"or "netdecks"

- power
letho: king slayer already copies all the benefits of cards, why should it get more power than said cards? in fact I believe it should be 3 or even 2 power. it's actual benefit is not on the power count it brings, but its description.

the apiarian phantom: already gets armor and veil, and always gets one extra point at the end of the round. makes sense to take that extra point back.

cave troll: it gets four armor already. in fact all the defenders cost less than they should, but this one is offenssive with its amor.

+ provision
oneiromancy: a card that lets you play whatever you want from your deck in two rounds? for me it shouldn't exist in the first place, or at least should have something to balance it (give a card to the opponent, or the card enters locked or as token and all copies destroyed, etc), thats why i suggest increasing the cost.

king chrum: this card enters the game with more than 20 power and stays for the next round. it is a joke. moreover, from the balance council we cannot reduce its power, so only solution is to increase its cost

reaver hunters: most likely they will get one more power point in this voting, thus better to make it more expensive (not that it changes anything).

- provision
all of them are nerfs to abilities

inspired zeal: nr has many cards whith order whose cost is balanced assuming they will wait for the next turn. this ability breaks that and gives an unfair advange.

imprisionment: the faction with most lock cards does not need more locks at ability level.

blood money: right from the begining a 6 damage that can convert to 6 coins, that in turn converts in abother 6 damage is insane. that's not smart, that's lazy desging.

i wanted to put all my nerfs on ng, but hold myself and tried to be more balanced.

 

[WhiteWolf4207]

+ power

fallen rayla is not that used (i think), expensive, and not that great currently. more power would make it less vulnerable (at least survive a bit longer the attacks it receives).

vernon roche is actually a nerf lol. it would give one point to the opponent, but this card gets two cards to the player, so this extra point is barely noticeable.

toad prince is annoying, but it is expensive i think. this is the section took me longer. easy to spot op cards, not that easy to spot cards rhat need some buff and are not part of "meta"or "netdecks"

- power
letho: king slayer already copies all the benefits of cards, why should it get more power than said cards? in fact I believe it should be 3 or even 2 power. it's actual benefit is not on the power count it brings, but its description.

the apiarian phantom: already gets armor and veil, and always gets one extra point at the end of the round. makes sense to take that extra point back.

cave troll: it gets four armor already. in fact all the defenders cost less than they should, but this one is offenssive with its amor.

+ provision
oneiromancy: a card that lets you play whatever you want from your deck in two rounds? for me it shouldn't exist in the first place, or at least should have something to balance it (give a card to the opponent, or the card enters locked or as token and all copies destroyed, etc), thats why i suggest increasing the cost.

king chrum: this card enters the game with more than 20 power and stays for the next round. it is a joke. moreover, from the balance council we cannot reduce its power, so only solution is to increase its cost

reaver hunters: most likely they will get one more power point in this voting, thus better to make it more expensive (not that it changes anything).

- provision
all of them are nerfs to abilities

inspired zeal: nr has many cards whith order whose cost is balanced assuming they will wait for the next turn. this ability breaks that and gives an unfair advange.

imprisionment: the faction with most lock cards does not need more locks at ability level.

blood money: right from the begining a 6 damage that can convert to 6 coins, that in turn converts in abother 6 damage is insane. that's not smart, that's lazy desging.

i wanted to put all my nerfs on ng, but hold myself and tried to be more balanced.

Fallen Rayla might get buffed but self-poison deck still won't be good.

Vernon Roche + 1 power I don't mind.

Toad Prince's stats are perfectly fine. It plays for 12 points for 8 provisions. No change needed.

Letho: Kingslayer is perfectly fine. No change needed.

I don't understand why you want to nerf Phantom no one plays it anyway. Some Wild Hunt deck plays it but most Wild Hunt decks already replaced him to Lord Riptide and downgraded 1 5p bronze to 4p bronze. Besides I think Phantom should be at 6p along with Egmund and Urcheon of Erlenwald. I am not quite sure about Herkja Drummond and Dunca tho.

Cave Troll: I don't care.

Oneiromancy is fine where she is. No change needed.

King Chrum might strong, but Ogroids don't have much control, so they need more points to compensate that. I don't think Ogroids or King Chrum needs nerf or nerfs. But I can see the reasoning.

Reaver Hunter can go to 7p after getting power buff I don't mind.

Inspired Zeal is one of the reasons why NR have lots of Order cards. Nerfing this isn't good idea. Without Inspired Zeal most of the cards are elder bear. I strongly disagree nerfing Inspired Zeal.

Imprisonment nerf? That leader ability barely anyone plays, why nerf this leader ability is beyond me? But anyway, no change needed here too.

Blood money? Blood money is fine leader ability. Ever since GN Bounty gone I don't see anyone playing this leader ability. No change need here too.

Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2023

Power Increase:
1. Dunca
2.Gord
3. Whisperer of DB

Power Decrease:
1. Braathens
2. Crach An Craite
3. Calveit

Provision increase:
1.Compass
2.Reaver Scout
3. Warlord

Provision Decrease:
1. Hawker smuggler
2. Yarpen
3. Milva Sharpshooter

Except Whisperer of DB other changes are good. Whisperer of DB at 3 power is fine.

 

[Trevorzan]

just changed my mind. instead of + provision to king chrum in two stars section, i placed royal decree. i don't understand how a 9 provision card can play units above its cost.

instead of + provision cost to phantom apiarian in one star section, i put king chrum.

cards that i think need a nerf, but maybe for next council: damien de la tour, leo bonhart, vincent van moorlehem, anna henrietta, philippe van moorlehem, nauzicaa sergeant and battle preparation.

Post automatically merged: Nov 5, 2023

Power Increase:
1. Dunca
2.Gord
3. Whisperer of DB

Power Decrease:
1. Braathens
2. Crach An Craite
3. Calveit

Provision increase:
1.Compass
2.Reaver Scout
3. Warlord

Provision Decrease:
1. Hawker smuggler
2. Yarpen
3. Milva Sharpshooter

power + : disagree (i think it is fine as is), agree and disagree (i think it is already an obnoxios card as is)

power - : all agree

provision + : all agree

provision - : disagree (I believe needs a nerf), disagree a bit (a card not used much, maybe that is the reason, but i think its provision is already fair) and agree.

so i am willing to change all my votes as yours, except provision + for 3 stars (oneiromancer) if you put oneiromancer on that position too on your vote.

 

[igor565]

cards that i think need a nerf, but maybe for next council: damien de la tour, leo bonhart, vincent van moorlehem, anna henrietta, philippe van moorlehem, nauzicaa sergeant and battle preparation

Is that a balance approach? These cards are barely played nowadays.
Also what’s that wrong with Battle Prep except for being an NG card?

 

[Raja_Rajan]

Well, I have been an idiot. I am already qualified to cast vote as the season hasn't ended and I am in pro rank (will change the title to be Oct-Nov). After the MagicCompass, AA, and Seige Buffs, my interest in the game and the overall hope for the Balance Council took a huge hit and I didn't even see enough to realize I still have voting rights. Played a few games and I already faced Seige a few times and every single time, it just obliterates anything I can play. But this is what it is, and we can either accept and play the game or leave it. No point in discussing why, how, whatttt???!!! and all. (But honestly I feel like the buffs to AA and Seige was a mistake and votes on other cards were mistakenly given to them). Enough bickering.. my votes for the 2nd BC is as follows.

I just want to spend all my energy in getting buffs to the ST rather than worrying about other factions (but Power Decrease can never be used in ST for any buffs, so, I dedicated it for nerfs)

Power++
OakCritters - Same reason as initial post
Sentry - 2 damage deathblow is supposed to be really hard and hence we have Primal Savage which just plays for 8 (without warlods). Buffing Sentry will also buff PS and can probably make it playable outside of PS. When a leader expects 2 4 cards and depleating leader ability to play them, it deserves a buff.
Malena - Until she gets buffed, I will reserve a slot for her in Power Increase.

Power--
Incubus - casually playing for 12+ points in almost all the cases and sometimes even 14 points leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No need for a 5P card which has such ability to have 6 power to begin with.
Lord Riptide - If such a card is available in any faction, it will be in 100% of the decks. 8P card which can remove 10 power cards and still stay with 2 power is just beyond broken. And the worst part is, it is now part of the Golden Nekker midrange nonsense too. It should be nerfed to 8 power or increased to 10 provisions. (If Riptide kind of card was in NG, this would have been the top priority nerfs in the first wave)
Golyat - Too much point vomit for too little provisions and drawbacks

Provision++
These ST leaders need a buff. Dead Eye and Elves have been hit pretty hard and I think streamers and pros are pushing for Simlas nerfs too with a disguise that they buff other archetypes. We all know that nerfs to Simlas will happen much early than buffs to other archetypes. So, I dedicating all Provision++ which is a primary nerf mechanism to buff ST.

Provision--
Sorceress of DB - was nerfed to be 6P when Bountiful Harvest was good, when the pool was very less and you can get a good card. Now with both Bountify Harvest nerfed and the pool is too big with a lot of junk pathetic horrible trap cards and highly conditional damage cards, both SoDB and BH would never see play. There is not a single 6P bronze on order for such a horrible payoff.
Smuggler - Same as initial post
BH - with elf pool too big and very high chance of finding 3 dead junk pathetic cards, this doesn't fit to be a 6p card.

 

[ThorgerWolff]

I don't like reverting previous changes too quickly. Changed cards the previous voting round should be left untouched this round.

im voting for a buff to Serit, Sly Seductress and Lackeys. These will buff multiple cards.

Buff for Gaunter O'Dimm and maybe Wisp.

Stennis, Precision Strike possibly Milaen.

edit typo