Balance Council - Share your picks for Oct-Nov Season

[Trevorzan]

let's remember we, as players, do not have access to metrics about utilization of cards in general, nor how often those cards are part of winning decks or frecuency of use of cards that are involved in high damage inflicted or power gain combos.

our votes rely a lot in our personal experience with the matches we play. the opponents I encounter in rank 11 are too different to rank 5 or pro rank. As such, players in higher ranks might see with disdain votes for cards they don't see as worth it or cards part of archeotypes not played in pro ranks; so I would say it can be a compromise, in which we can discuss and try to get a consolidated vote, otherwise, this is a free for all and everybody votes as they see fit, which can generate just random results. contrary to what many believe, I see imprisionment frecuently in rank 11.

another point is: we have a limited number of 3 choices. we cannot fix the whole balance in a go, it has to be in small steps, maybe one change is more urgent than other, but that does not mean that the latter also is needed. if we can get that compromise, we can agree upon supporting one change under the condition another change will be supported the next vote.

 

[Brippe]

My picks for next Balance Council Patch. I might change some cards later but for now these are my picks.
View attachment 11372449

Really? [...]
You use the tool to buff your favorite faction -1 power to Villem is the typical NG manipulation of the systems....

 

[WhiteWolf4207]

Really? [...]
You use the tool to buff your favorite faction -1 power to Villem is the typical NG manipulation of the systems....

First of all, my favorite faction isn't NG it's NR.
Second, NG have Roderick which is far better than Villem. NG will not play Villem ever.
Third, Villem is neutral so every faction can get benefit from this.

 

[ShinAkira00]

my picks

I Agree with everything except Apiarian Phantom. It's the same power and provision as the other 7 provision cards that were created simultaneously for every faction. If we aren't changing the other equivalent cards in the other factions then I don't agree with changing this one.

Also King Chrum can't be nerfed because he's already 14 provision. I agree he needs a nerf but he already has the lowest possible points and highest possible provision cost. I don't think it's possible to exceed either one. He is the problem but most likely to nerf him ppl will just nerf the other Ogroids.

Post automatically merged: Nov 6, 2023

Nerf to Inspired Zeal and Oneiromancy makes me sad the most. There are other questionable picks in your voting, but I would like you to reconsider nerfing Oneiromancy and Inspired Zeal.

Post automatically merged: Nov 4, 2023

These two definitely need to be nerfed. Oneiromancy especially. Inspired Zeal is making removal far too easy for NR.

 

[quintivarium]

Also King Chrum can't be nerfed because he's already 14 provision. I agree he needs a nerf but he already has the lowest possible points and highest possible provision cost. I don't think it's possible to exceed either one. He is the problem but most likely to nerf him ppl will just nerf the other Ogroids.

I was under the impression that there was no maximum cap on provisions — has that changed?

 

[LeticiOrel]

I was under the impression that there was no maximum cap on provisions — has that changed?

It has not. King Chrum is really an adept for 15 prov. That resilience value should be painfully expensive.

 

[Brippe]

First of all, my favorite faction isn't NG it's NR.
Second, NG have Roderick which is far better than Villem. NG will not play Villem ever.
Third, Villem is neutral so every faction can get benefit from this.

Using a mechanism that is supposed to be a nerf, to buff a unit that benefit more a faction than another is tricking the system
For this reason the Balance council will fail as initiative

 

[WhiteWolf4207]

Using a mechanism that is supposed to be a nerf, to buff a unit that benefit more a faction than another is tricking the system
For this reason the Balance council will fail as initiative

It's not tricking the system.

Post automatically merged: Nov 7, 2023

I was under the impression that there was no maximum cap on provisions — has that changed?

I don't think so. Cultist scenario was 14p card but now it's 15p card. So, I am pretty sure there's isn't highest provision cap. But yes, cards can't go below 4p.

 

[ThorgerWolff]

Bc is Bs with cheese like this still a thing

 

[CorvoBiancoBound]

"With great power there must also come great responsibility." Considering first changes and the discussions going on about the next changes-Balance Bumbles, don't make changes for the sake of change and because you have the power to do so. This is a great card game as is. The developers knew what they were doing much more so than you do. Let's not have 60! changes every month because you aren't smart enough to figure out how to play against good decks.

 

[ShinAkira00]

The developers knew what they were doing much more so than you do. Let's not have 60! changes every month because you aren't smart enough to figure out how to play against good decks.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. If the devs knew what they were doing why is the game a binary mess and lost most of it's player base? The devs do what developers often do, they make short term changes for short term rewards because they needed to justify the cost of supporting the game, even if that meant introducing poorly thought out mechanics. I definitely don't think the community will do a stellar job but pretending the devs were doing an excellent job is a stretch.

Post automatically merged: Nov 7, 2023

I was under the impression that there was no maximum cap on provisions — has that changed?

Thanks, I stand corrected on this. There is no provision cap.

 

[Barracuda88]

Current 3 picks aside, here's my "long list" of golds that in my opinion need a +1 increase in Provision. Depending on the results of the next vote, and pending meta changes, these will probably be in my future selections in no particular order:

Erland +1 - Immune and plays for a ton of points. Should be 13
Henry +1 - Fat body and too much utility for the player plus garbage for the opp
Cleaver +1 - with the Muscle boost, should cost more
Radeyah +1 - used to be a 12p card and now 10? Too cheap.
Calveit +1 - It's Calveit
Arachas Queen +1 - Spam card that spams golds. 10 is too cheap.
Syanna +1 - Deploy cheese card. Used to be 12. There was never any reason for this to be 10 and ALSO get a body boost.
Yenvo +1 - It's Yenvo
Olgierd Immortal +1 - 10 undamageable points for 9 seems too cheap, especially in SK self-harm decks
Lydia +1 - why is this create and play card 9p? Never made sense.
Rosa and Edna +1 - card too cheap for what it does, plain and simple
Caranthir +1 - gold spam card. Spam discouragement is a theme you may pick up on here.
Kolgrim +1 - too cheap for the payout card that can be spammed.
Ixora +1 - Got a few nerfs already, but 8 still feels too cheap for potential damage this can inflict.
Idarran +1 - spam
Scratch a lot +1 - the enable thrive by opponent is what makes this card too cheap, imo
Jotunn +1 - straight 15 for 8 is too cheap, and I don't care that you have to include ice giants in deck.
Operator +1 - spam garbage card.
Axel +1 - straight 11 for 7, replayable and with absolutely no setup. Too cheap and too stupid.
C. Flaminica +1 - plays for too much with setup. See Gord.
Old Speartip Asleep +1 - Thins a card and plays for 18 potentially for 6. Too cheap.

 

[Trevorzan]

"With great power there must also come great responsibility." Considering first changes and the discussions going on about the next changes-Balance Bumbles, don't make changes for the sake of change and because you have the power to do so. This is a great card game as is. The developers knew what they were doing much more so than you do. Let's not have 60! changes every month because you aren't smart enough to figure out how to play against good decks.

when a good deck is too good, it has to be scrutinized, as it might be possible one or more cards bring an unfair advantage. This is true as to many cards have been buffed or nerfed in the past.

It does not matter if the devs were better or worst. Those said developers decided a year ago no more card drops and a balance council managed by players would be rolled out. We can have a long discussion on that, but it will not change the current situation.

 

[ShinAkira00]

Current 3 picks aside, here's my "long list" of golds that in my opinion need a +1 increase in Provision. Depending on the results of the next vote, and pending meta changes, these will probably be in my future selections in no particular order:

Erland +1 - Immune and plays for a ton of points. Should be 13
Henry +1 - Fat body and too much utility for the player plus garbage for the opp
Cleaver +1 - with the Muscle boost, should cost more
Radeyah +1 - used to be a 12p card and now 10? Too cheap.
Calveit +1 - It's Calveit
Arachas Queen +1 - Spam card that spams golds. 10 is too cheap.
Syanna +1 - Deploy cheese card. Used to be 12. There was never any reason for this to be 10 and ALSO get a body boost.
Yenvo +1 - It's Yenvo
Olgierd Immortal +1 - 10 undamageable points for 9 seems too cheap, especially in SK self-harm decks
Lydia +1 - why is this create and play card 9p? Never made sense.
Rosa and Edna +1 - card too cheap for what it does, plain and simple
Caranthir +1 - gold spam card. Spam discouragement is a theme you may pick up on here.
Kolgrim +1 - too cheap for the payout card that can be spammed.
Ixora +1 - Got a few nerfs already, but 8 still feels too cheap for potential damage this can inflict.
Idarran +1 - spam
Scratch a lot +1 - the enable thrive by opponent is what makes this card too cheap, imo
Jotunn +1 - straight 15 for 8 is too cheap, and I don't care that you have to include ice giants in deck.
Operator +1 - spam garbage card.
Axel +1 - straight 11 for 7, replayable and with absolutely no setup. Too cheap and too stupid.
C. Flaminica +1 - plays for too much with setup. See Gord.
Old Speartip Asleep +1 - Thins a card and plays for 18 potentially for 6. Too cheap.

Most of these cards aren't even the problem though. Take Caranthir for instance. No one plays that card except ppl spamming Arachas Queen. Arachas Queen is the issue not Caranthir, outside of that he's a dead card. Then there are the cards that allow every faction to draw these spam cards.

Players don't want to nerf Oneiromancy and other tutor cards because they want to use it themselves. Unfortunately until Gwent players learn to think long term, they'll just do the same thing the devs have been doing.

Renfri is the next major issue, one card that has more versatility than every card in the game combined and no one wants to nerf it because again they want to use it. No card should be able to do what this card does.

 

[sfruzz]

For some reasons I find nerfing cards more difficult than suggesting a buff. These are my (unsubmitted) pics.

I would buff the iconic Igni, which I didn't face in my games to get the right to cast a vote. Gord was quite iconic for few seasons. I miss the crime deck with Gord as a finisher. Malena can be a powerful engine, but I've read in this thread that she deserves a buff.

Even in a firesworn devotion list, I could not find a place for Ulrich. I find the card underwhelming and I'd like to see it buffed. Eredin is somewhat OK. I wouldn't say it's the weakest gold card in the pool. Still I would like to see him buffed, as I like the frost archetype. Even if buffed, Eredin could still be locked, scorched, poisoned, banished. Serrit compared to Toad is quite weak. The condition to get 4 damage is quite restrictive.

 

[Barracuda88]

Most of these cards aren't even the problem though. Take Caranthir for instance. No one plays that card except ppl spamming Arachas Queen. Arachas Queen is the issue not Caranthir, outside of that he's a dead card. Then there are the cards that allow every faction to draw these spam cards.

Players don't want to nerf Oneiromancy and other tutor cards because they want to use it themselves. Unfortunately until Gwent players learn to think long term, they'll just do the same thing the devs have been doing.

Renfri is the next major issue, one card that has more versatility than every card in the game combined and no one want to nerf it because again they want to use it. No card should be able to do what this card does.

Caranthir is the problem because it's a spam card, just like AQ is the problem. That's why both of them are on my list. AQ aside, Caranthir is also used to spam Koschey, Cat, Kiki and others. Now, THOSE are cards that are, in my opinion "aren't even the problem." But spamming is, both bronze and gold, and that I want discouraged, which, the only way to do it now is to nerf spam cards.

Oneiromancy is not on my list because it's already 13 provisions, and I think that's fair for what it does, especially since some factions did not get Echo tutors or handy versatile and pointslammy thinning options when those were being handed out.

Same kind of goes for Renfri. It's a garbage card, but it's already 14p.

Now, GN and Ciri Nova are getting pretty close to the list. Since the devs helpfully left those options open, I think maybe I'll add them to the queue, unless the Compass goes back up to 10 in this next patch.

 

[quintivarium]

Current 3 picks aside, here's my "long list" of golds that in my opinion need a +1 increase in Provision. Depending on the results of the next vote, and pending meta changes, these will probably be in my future selections in no particular order:

Erland +1 - Immune and plays for a ton of points. Should be 13
Henry +1 - Fat body and too much utility for the player plus garbage for the opp
Cleaver +1 - with the Muscle boost, should cost more
Radeyah +1 - used to be a 12p card and now 10? Too cheap.
Calveit +1 - It's Calveit
Arachas Queen +1 - Spam card that spams golds. 10 is too cheap.
Syanna +1 - Deploy cheese card. Used to be 12. There was never any reason for this to be 10 and ALSO get a body boost.
Yenvo +1 - It's Yenvo
Olgierd Immortal +1 - 10 undamageable points for 9 seems too cheap, especially in SK self-harm decks
Lydia +1 - why is this create and play card 9p? Never made sense.
Rosa and Edna +1 - card too cheap for what it does, plain and simple
Caranthir +1 - gold spam card. Spam discouragement is a theme you may pick up on here.
Kolgrim +1 - too cheap for the payout card that can be spammed.
Ixora +1 - Got a few nerfs already, but 8 still feels too cheap for potential damage this can inflict.
Idarran +1 - spam
Scratch a lot +1 - the enable thrive by opponent is what makes this card too cheap, imo
Jotunn +1 - straight 15 for 8 is too cheap, and I don't care that you have to include ice giants in deck.
Operator +1 - spam garbage card.
Axel +1 - straight 11 for 7, replayable and with absolutely no setup. Too cheap and too stupid.
C. Flaminica +1 - plays for too much with setup. See Gord.
Old Speartip Asleep +1 - Thins a card and plays for 18 potentially for 6. Too cheap.

My big complaint about this list is that it is way too short!

Most of these cards aren't even the problem though. Take Caranthir for instance. No one plays that card except ppl spamming Arachas Queen. Arachas Queen is the issue not Caranthir, outside of that he's a dead card. Then there are the cards that allow every faction to draw these spam cards.

While they might not be currently meta I think every one of Barracuda88’s suggestions with which I have sufficient familiarity is too powerful to be healthy in the game. Balance Council is not just about adjusting Gwent’s current state; it is also about long term betterment of the game.

Players don't want to nerf Oneiromancy and other tutor cards because they want to use it themselves. Unfortunately until Gwent players learn to think long term, they'll just do the same thing the devs have been doing.

While I agree with your sentiment, (general purpose tutors literally destroy creative, situational strategizing), I believe that until we reduce the point gap between top gold cards and low provision filler cards, Gwent without these tutors would be a binary mess.

In my ideal version of Gwent, no card would ever play for more than about 3 points above its provision cost — and no engine would play for more than 2 points per turn. Then we can try to address the abominable excesses of tutoring and removal that destroy the game. But until then, these cards are critical for Gwent to be balanced.

 

[ThorgerWolff]

My balance POV would be 4 provisions special cards. These can only get a provision buff. A power buff is impossible and a provision nerf as well.

Thaw would be my baseline 4 provision neutral special card. All other cards need to be balanced accordingly.

 

[Raja_Rajan]

Current 3 picks aside, here's my "long list" of golds that in my opinion need a +1 increase in Provision. Depending on the results of the next vote, and pending meta changes, these will probably be in my future selections in no particular order:

Erland +1 - Immune and plays for a ton of points. Should be 13
Henry +1 - Fat body and too much utility for the player plus garbage for the opp
Cleaver +1 - with the Muscle boost, should cost more
Radeyah +1 - used to be a 12p card and now 10? Too cheap.
Calveit +1 - It's Calveit
Arachas Queen +1 - Spam card that spams golds. 10 is too cheap.
Syanna +1 - Deploy cheese card. Used to be 12. There was never any reason for this to be 10 and ALSO get a body boost.
Yenvo +1 - It's Yenvo
Olgierd Immortal +1 - 10 undamageable points for 9 seems too cheap, especially in SK self-harm decks
Lydia +1 - why is this create and play card 9p? Never made sense.
Rosa and Edna +1 - card too cheap for what it does, plain and simple
Caranthir +1 - gold spam card. Spam discouragement is a theme you may pick up on here.
Kolgrim +1 - too cheap for the payout card that can be spammed.
Ixora +1 - Got a few nerfs already, but 8 still feels too cheap for potential damage this can inflict.
Idarran +1 - spam
Scratch a lot +1 - the enable thrive by opponent is what makes this card too cheap, imo
Jotunn +1 - straight 15 for 8 is too cheap, and I don't care that you have to include ice giants in deck.
Operator +1 - spam garbage card.
Axel +1 - straight 11 for 7, replayable and with absolutely no setup. Too cheap and too stupid.
C. Flaminica +1 - plays for too much with setup. See Gord.
Old Speartip Asleep +1 - Thins a card and plays for 18 potentially for 6. Too cheap.

Did you forget to add Lord Riptide? Or you think he is not top priority?

IMO, if there is one MO card that needs an immediate nerf, it is Lord Riptide. It is cheaper than Malina (or whatever that dead elf girl name is, 9P to do 4 damage with 4 body) and can kill any card you place on the board with more hit points remaining.

 

[quintivarium]

Did you forget to add Lord Riptide? Or you think he is not top priority?

IMO, if there is one MO card that needs an immediate nerf, it is Lord Riptide. It is cheaper than Malina (or whatever that dead elf girl name is, 9P to do 4 damage with 4 body) and can kill any card you place on the board with more hit points remaining.

I think you mean Milaen. And you could use comparison with Milean to argue that the likes of Fortune Tellers are OP! But thank you for identifying what might be Gwent’s biggest boost need.