Balance Council - Share your picks for Oct-Nov Season

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Did you forget to add Lord Riptide? Or you think he is not top priority?

IMO, if there is one MO card that needs an immediate nerf, it is Lord Riptide. It is cheaper than Malina (or whatever that dead elf girl name is, 9P to do 4 damage with 4 body) and can kill any card you place on the board with more hit points remaining.
I was debating Lord Riptide and somehow he ended up off the list. I did lose an annoying number of Saskias now that she's back to 4 to these clowns highrolling him, but every now and then they'll hit that low roll bronze for a bit of joy :D Overall, I kind of respect how the card is designed, and although I wouldn't be mad at a little provision nerf, I think maybe power reduction of 1 point is more appropriate.
 
sure, because a copy with a power of 0 can not be created...

when a good deck is too good, it has to be scrutinized, as it might be possible one or more cards bring an unfair advantage. This is true as to many cards have been buffed or nerfed in the past.

It does not matter if the devs were better or worst. Those said developers decided a year ago no more card drops and a balance council managed by players would be rolled out. We can have a long discussion on that, but it will not change the current situation.
The point is players don't like playing against certain decks, and because they can't figure out how to beat them they think they are unfair. Many people don't like playing against Reavers so they destroyed the card. It no longer works. Some cards will always have advantage over others in certain situations. Half this game is about matchups and draw. The problem here is not balance. Making 60 unrequired changes every month because you can is going to destroy what's left of this game. The number of changes should be limited and perhaps given a test period before finalized to see if the change screws something up. Also the individuals participating should be limited to the elite players. I have only been playing 10 months. How is it I'm able to participate in the balance council? I'm not even pro.
 
I think you mean Milaen. And you could use comparison with Milean to argue that the likes of Fortune Tellers are OP! But thank you for identifying what might be Gwent’s biggest boost need.
You mean Fortune Teller is the same as Riptide? I didn't simply compare a dead card with Riptide. I compared as they are both supposed to control cards. For 8P being able to destroy any first card that gets played with putting a lot of points on board is just OP.

So you think Riptide is a perfectly balanced card for 8P?
 
Oneiromancy is not on my list because it's already 13 provisions, and I think that's fair for what it does, especially since some factions did not get Echo tutors or handy versatile and pointslammy thinning options when those were being handed out.
You say it's fair for what it does but it enables most of the cards you listed because there's zero chance for these cards to misfire or brick when you are 100% certain you can play them. If you draw Caranthir without Queen...the combo doesn't work and the player has to improvise or not rely solely on Arachas Queen. The spam works because it's a guaranteed draw with cards like Oneiromancy. It isn't just MO but it enables that binary play in every faction.

If we're saying Caranthir is the problem then there are other spam "copy cards" in NR and NG that copies infinitely, including leader abilities...all of which would be at the very top of your list. I don't disagree with the spam issue...I also hate it but since there is no way to change abilities I don't think nerfing already dead cards should be the focus but instead the cards that allow them to be played freely.
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Did you forget to add Lord Riptide? Or you think he is not top priority?

IMO, if there is one MO card that needs an immediate nerf, it is Lord Riptide. It is cheaper than Malina (or whatever that dead elf girl name is, 9P to do 4 damage with 4 body) and can kill any card you place on the board with more hit points remaining.
Riptide seems pretty balanced, 90% of the time it doesn't play for more than 12 pts. The removal is situational because you can't even select a target and often he will just die because increasing armor mostly gets interrupted. SK has a similar card that can pretty much carry a few turns once it's played because of the amount of armor it can accumulate easily.

The other Ogroids like King Chrum I definitely think need a nerf but Riptide is fine, MO doesn't have a whole lot of removal or control options to begin with.
 
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You say it's fair for what it does but it enables most of the cards you listed because there's zero chance for these cards to misfire or brick when you are 100% certain you can play them. If you draw Caranthir without Queen...the combo doesn't work and the player has to improvise or not rely solely on Arachas Queen. The spam works because it's a guaranteed draw with cards like Oneiromancy. It isn't just MO but it enables that binary play in every faction.

If we're saying Caranthir is the problem then there are other spam "copy cards" in NR and NG that copies infinitely, including leader abilities...all of which would be at the very top of your list. I don't disagree with the spam issue...I also hate it but since there is no way to change abilities I don't think nerfing already dead cards should be the focus but instead the cards that allow them to be played freely.
First of all, Oneiromancy doesn't guarantee anything. You spend 13 provision to significantly increase the probability of playing the card you need at the time you need it. And for that service, that is the fair price. Second, like I said before, some factions dont NEED Oneiro, because they can achieve consistency by cheaper and more convenient means, while others CANNOT, so by nerfing Oneiro further you will be nerfing only half of the playing field and effectively buffing the other half. Since there is basically zero way right now to address the consistency disparity between factions, neutral tutor should not be overnerfed.

As for the spam cards from NR and NG, my list was specifically for gold cards, and the only one I missed that I can think of was Reinforcements, which should be on there for +1.

Finally, regarding Caranthir, I don't agree that it's a "dead" card, and your last sentence is pretty confusing. So you don't think we should nerf the "dead" cards, but we should nerf the tutors that enable us to play the "dead" cards for extra provisions? Is that logical?
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Is Raffard's Vengeance too cheap?
Last year I would say it was, but now... I think the fact that it pretty much requires a leader charge and support cards to work puts it out of my personal "shit" tier.
 
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You mean Fortune Teller is the same as Riptide? I didn't simply compare a dead card with Riptide. I compared as they are both supposed to control cards. For 8P being able to destroy any first card that gets played with putting a lot of points on board is just OP.

So you think Riptide is a perfectly balanced card for 8P?
My point is simply that comparison with one of the worst cards in Gwent can never establish that a card is OP. Comparison with Toruviel, Yaevinn, Stormmursson, Hjalmar: Seawolf, Terror of the Seas, Laredo, Moreelse, Whoreson Junior, or even Rockslide would be more convincing.

And yes, I do think Riptide is OP. I don’t have him as a priority because:
  1. He plays in a weak archetype.
  2. He is not obnoxiously binary.
  3. Timing his use is at least a little bit strategic.
  4. He is somewhat interactive in that he can be played around (and is predictable enough one knows to play around him).
  5. By my measure of OP (points above an ideal point/provision curve), he is not nearly as OP as several dozen other cards (take virtually anything on Barracuda88’s list).
  6. Because he is meta (or at least near-meta) I will let other players deal with him as I think a mixture of meta and nonmeta changes are important in balance council — and about 90% of votes seem to be meta oriented.
 
Yenvo +1 - It's Yenvo
So you want to turn it into worse heathwave for the same provisions? :LOL:
We have nekker pirates dominating the meta again and all u propose for SK is to nerf Axel (which he deserves btw)? That should fix it, now back to important matters like nerfing Kolgrim.

Nothing personal, but your list pretty much sums up why Gwent wont survive 2 or 3 more of those Council changes.
 
[...]
We have nekker pirates dominating the meta again and all u propose for SK is to nerf Axel (which he deserves btw)? That should fix it, now back to important matters like nerfing Kolgrim.

Nothing personal, but your list pretty much sums up why Gwent wont survive 2 or 3 more of those Council changes.
No, I want to turn it into a different Heatwave for the same provision.

And if you read that post you're responding to, it clearly says that the list is JUST provision nerfs of JUST gold cards and that those are "ASIDE" from the current 3 picks already submitted, which included the Compass, which is the main (and probably the only) reason SK nekker pirates are back in the meta. For provision nerfs of gold cards only, I only saw Axel and Corrupted Flaminica as the obvious choices, and plus Olgierd, which is arguably the most usable in SK decks.

So nothing personal, but your post pretty much sums up NG mains.
 
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The point is players don't like playing against certain decks, and because they can't figure out how to beat them they think they are unfair. Many people don't like playing against Reavers so they destroyed the card. It no longer works. Some cards will always have advantage over others in certain situations. Half this game is about matchups and draw. The problem here is not balance. Making 60 unrequired changes every month because you can is going to destroy what's left of this game. The number of changes should be limited and perhaps given a test period before finalized to see if the change screws something up. Also the individuals participating should be limited to the elite players. I have only been playing 10 months. How is it I'm able to participate in the balance council? I'm not even pro.
When outcome is determined solely by match-up (before a single card is played); when outcome is determined by card draw (irrespective of how cards are played); the game is not in an OK state. And it doesn't have to be this way; it wasn't this way nearly four years ago when I started playing. The problem, in my opinion is that too many cards have become too powerful -- either you have answers or you lose -- and you can't have answers for everything. Moreover, with greater polarization between top and filler cards, missing one more top gold than an opponent often decides a match just on luck alone. These flaws can conceivably be corrected through balance council -- but it requires significant effort to equalize many cards, both over and under powered.

I think it is important that we trust the players -- we may disagree, we may amble aimlessly for a while. But almost all of us are passionate about the game and make what we believe to be fair improvements to it. And not just "elite" players should be involved. It is important that play at all levels be rewarding. We want players familiar with the game; they shouldn't have to be experts. Besides, defining "elite" players is almost impossible in a consistently fair and meaningful way.
 
I think it is important that we trust the players -- we may disagree, we may amble aimlessly for a while. But almost all of us are passionate about the game and make what we believe to be fair improvements to it. And not just "elite" players should be involved. It is important that play at all levels be rewarding. We want players familiar with the game; they shouldn't have to be experts. Besides, defining "elite" players is almost impossible in a consistently fair and meaningful way.
lol I think you're being a little too optimistic there my friend. [...] We still have players just turning off their internet connection when they lose a match. It's important to be realistic. The game will never be fully balanced using just provision and power adjustments because there are some cards that just have busted mechanics and there are dead cards that will never see any play because they need to be completely reworked.

What will happen is the most popular archetypes from each faction will either be nerfed or buffed each month and it will just be a revolving door.

Also to clarify my own comment "children" meant the age of the current player base. Games have a target audience i.e. demographics. That seems to have been misinterpreted.
 
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Lots of posts deleted and edited.

If you're here just to post personal attacks, don't.
If you're here just to insult others (e.g. by calling them children), don't.
 
Hello.

Please excuse me if it's not the right place to post this message, but I am currently unable to vote for the Balance Council.

I have 25 victories in ladder, I am Prestige 4 or 5, I can put my votes but I have an error message everytime I try to submit.

It's in French but in English that says : "An error occured, your votes couldn't have been sent".

I restarted the game and even my computer, but nothing has changed.

Has someone experienced the same problem ?

Thank you and have a good day.
Vote Conseil d'Equilibrage Novembre.png
 
No, I want to turn it into a different Heatwave for the same provision.
Some1 would need to be insane to pick Yenvo over HW for the same provisions. Especially that NG doesn't support devotion in any meaningful way. You usually need to wait for r3 to snatch some valuable cards, you would potentially want to play yourself, cause that's when people normally play them. And that means you probably won't be ale to play it same round. So in most cases its plain removal like HW that can't get rid of mutagenerator r1 and scenarios.
If you are forced to use Yenvo earlier that means you try to prevent carryover (Angus, Maddoc, etc) or some engine grew to insane level. As your deck doesn't have same synergy as the opponent this card is probably useless to you. It means you are putting brick on top of your deck that will cost you 1 mulligan.
In both cases HW is strictly better Yeno.
So are those 'NG mains' in the same room with you right now? Cause I would rather play vampires or congregate (if they were worth anything rn). But I'm also smart enough to know that you can't power creep faction card with neutral of the same cost. So nerfing Yenvo would force us to nerf HW (indirectly buffing scenarios). And we already were there, and people didn't like it.
My point is that hardly no1 looks at bigger picture, they are just guided by hatred (lol) for some faction or archetype. And this won't fly very long.
[...]
 
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Some1 would need to be insane to pick Yenvo over HW for the same provisions. Especially that NG doesn't support devotion in any meaningful way. You usually need to wait for r3 to snatch some valuable cards, you would potentially want to play yourself, cause that's when people normally play them. And that means you probably won't be ale to play it same round. So in most cases its plain removal like HW that can't get rid of mutagenerator r1 and scenarios.
If you are forced to use Yenvo earlier that means you try to prevent carryover (Angus, Maddoc, etc) or some engine grew to insane level. As your deck doesn't have same synergy as the opponent this card is probably useless to you. It means you are putting brick on top of your deck that will cost you 1 mulligan.
In both cases HW is strictly better Yeno.
So are those 'NG mains' in the same room with you right now? Cause I would rather play vampires or congregate (if they were worth anything rn). But I'm also smart enough to know that you can't power creep faction card with neutral of the same cost. So nerfing Yenvo would force us to nerf HW (indirectly buffing scenarios). And we already were there, and people didn't like it.
My point is that hardly no1 looks at bigger picture, they are just guided by hatred (lol) for some faction or archetype. And this won't fly very long.
[...]
NG supports Devotion in the same way as anyone else, and as great as that "strategic" aside was about the many hardships of the use of Yenvo, it really did nothing to take away the difference between the two cards and the fact that you can replay the card you remove. Nor has it done anything to prove that Yenvo must be cheaper than Heatwave. Or that you "can't powercreep a faction with neutral of the same cost." It's been done before (See Royal Decree vs Call of the Forest) and somehow the world (or even Gwent) has not ended.
 
Hello.

Please excuse me if it's not the right place to post this message, but I am currently unable to vote for the Balance Council.

I have 25 victories in ladder, I am Prestige 4 or 5, I can put my votes but I have an error message everytime I try to submit.

It's in French but in English that says : "An error occured, your votes couldn't have been sent".

I restarted the game and even my computer, but nothing has changed.

Has someone experienced the same problem ?

Thank you and have a good day.View attachment 11373067
Play a game in ranked match it will be fixed. I had that issue, but it got fixed after playing a ranked match.
 
When outcome is determined solely by match-up (before a single card is played); when outcome is determined by card draw (irrespective of how cards are played); the game is not in an OK state. And it doesn't have to be this way; it wasn't this way nearly four years ago when I started playing. The problem, in my opinion is that too many cards have become too powerful -- either you have answers or you lose -- and you can't have answers for everything. Moreover, with greater polarization between top and filler cards, missing one more top gold than an opponent often decides a match just on luck alone. These flaws can conceivably be corrected through balance council -- but it requires significant effort to equalize many cards, both over and under powered.

I think it is important that we trust the players -- we may disagree, we may amble aimlessly for a while. But almost all of us are passionate about the game and make what we believe to be fair improvements to it. And not just "elite" players should be involved. It is important that play at all levels be rewarding. We want players familiar with the game; they shouldn't have to be experts. Besides, defining "elite" players is almost impossible in a consistently fair and meaningful way.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I'm not overly confident given the results of the first council--reavers broken, some NG metas destroyed. And I still think there are too many changes. Adjusting a few cards here and there I can see. Changing 60 every month is overkill. We all have the same cards to play (I'm still short quite a few) that's the definition of balance to me. I'd prefer to just work with what's available and only fix what's actually broken. However, I respect everything you are saying. I'm pretty new to this game and hope it sticks around for a while. I'm curious to see if the council will fix the mistake it made with reaver hunters last month. If it doesn't then I really don't have confidence in it. It's such a glaring mistake. From some of the comments on this forum, I don't think everyone even understands what was done to the card. The first day I didn't understand what happened until someone pointed out what the card reads. Changes take a lot of consideration. I hope things pan out well. Thanks for your feedback. I hope you're right about the council.
 
My point is simply that comparison with one of the worst cards in Gwent can never establish that a card is OP. Comparison with Toruviel, Yaevinn, Stormmursson, Hjalmar: Seawolf, Terror of the Seas, Laredo, Moreelse, Whoreson Junior, or even Rockslide would be more convincing.

And yes, I do think Riptide is OP. I don’t have him as a priority because:
  1. He plays in a weak archetype.
  2. He is not obnoxiously binary.
  3. Timing his use is at least a little bit strategic.
  4. He is somewhat interactive in that he can be played around (and is predictable enough one knows to play around him).
  5. By my measure of OP (points above an ideal point/provision curve), he is not nearly as OP as several dozen other cards (take virtually anything on Barracuda88’s list).
  6. Because he is meta (or at least near-meta) I will let other players deal with him as I think a mixture of meta and nonmeta changes are important in balance council — and about 90% of votes seem to be meta oriented.
I agree with most of what you said, except for the point that he is part of a weak archetype.

He has no dependency on the Ogriod archetype. If he actually was, then I would be absolutely fine with him as that archetype would have 0 control options (except that it almost always runs Areondite).

But he is used in every single deck as a cheap removal option, even in GN decks. That is my issue with this card.
 
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